Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo
It doesn't make sense. The Liberals want to spend money on infrastructure. People like the sound of HSR. We can afford it easily. It's not even a project with difficult technical constraints. Why can't we just bloody do it?
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The Liberals don't want to spend money on infrastructure. They get dragged kicking and screaming to the table to sign. They will literally prioritize any excuse to cut a tax break or direct payment to someone over any infrastructure project.
The other option is the Conservatives, the only party who could give less of a shit about infrastructure and is actively opposed to the large infrastructure projects we need in the populated parts of the country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer_spe
The irony is that those lines have existed over 100 years. They were put in to colonize the west. Now, they are left to move goods from the coast to Toronto.
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Back then people didn't have cars and airplanes. So they would ride the trains. There's no need to do that today, except in some specific high traffic corridors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer_spe
What we need to do is to use what we have. There are tracks between Calgary and Edmonton. Put a passenger train service on it. There are tracks between Vancouver, Calgary and Edmonton. Put a passenger train service on it.
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You get that VIA doesn't own those tracks right? You can't just "put a passenger train on it".
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer_spe
It really could be that easy.
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No it isn't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer_spe
I doubt we are going to see much higher ridership due to HFR.
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You're wrong. But if you're right, it's effectively the end of VIA and intercity passenger rail service in Canada. If there's no business case in the highest population density, highest air traffic and highest auto traffic corridor in the country, there' s literally no case to build anywhere else. You, and every other rail advocate, better hope and pray that HFR beats every single forecast.
I, for one, think VIA is underestimating ridership. I think they will do fantastically if it's ever built.
Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo
It's HFR or bust, literally. If VIA and our government can't make that work then we might as well forget about intercity passenger rail in Canada.
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Exactly. People just don't seem to understand that this is VIA's only shot at making a business model that lets them survive. If it doesn't pan out, some future government (mostly likely a Conservative one) will privatize them and that will lead to the end of most services.
Quote:
Originally Posted by milomilo
It should be the least controversial thing ever. But I'm optimistic, I think it will get built, probably over budget, but it will be a success and will demand upgrades. I only wish we could skip the interim slow speed stage and just go right to what is obviously justified.
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The whole reason we have to go through the slow speed stage is because nearly a half century of talking about high speed rail has delivered fuck all. Every Liberal government comes in. Talks about it for a few years. Does a study. And then discovers that a lot more votes can be bought for those billions in other ways and moves on.
HFR is a fantastic idea specifically because it is politically realizable. In theory, a government could get this built and in service, in little over one term. With the work currently underway, they could have shovels in the ground by 2022 and service start by end 2026 if they really wanted. And the cost is low enough that the government can claim to deliver a notable benefit without being tempted to blow as much elsewhere.
As Urban_Sky has related, it's not being built in the most upgradeable manner because of budget constraints. But that just means future upgrades will cost more. Hopefully, once this is in service, it will be easier to argue at least for upgrades on the close city pairs like Ottawa-Montreal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer_spe
If the government invested better, we wouldn't be in this mess. Cutting service outside the Corridor will always piss of those outside the Corridor. After HFR is online, leave the Corridor alone.
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HFR being discussed right now is just the first phase. And nobody is even really sure if Montreal-Quebec City will actually get done this go. The whole Southwestern Ontario portion has to be done next. Including running the service through Pearson airport as the hub being planned there comes to fruition. The Corridor is more than just Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swimmer_spe
Work on other parts of the network. Bring in dailies to all other service. Add new routes. Add new rolling stock.
In short, invest in all of Canada's passenger rail network.
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Opportunity cost. What would that same money do for transit in those cities? Or health care? Or education? Or simply leaving it in the economy? Governments have to balance competing priorities. And in this reality, building lines where the business case for them is very poor is indefensible. In a lot of cases (even in parts of the Corridor), VIA should be doing what many other rail operators do worldwide and run buses instead.