West Gatineau Tramway & Downtown Loop | Proposed

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I mean, if Wellington's not gonna have cars between Bank and Elgin anyhow, there's not really any conflicts to speak of along that stretch. And considering removing cars could more than double the (already generously wide) sidewalks, I don't see it as much of a disruption to pedestrians either. There'll be a handful of events where the trams might have to dead-end for a few hours per year, but if we're being realistic, it's not enough disruption to justify the cost and complication of a tunnel.

I wasn't really thinking of conflicts with traffic, but more conflicts with pedestrians and creating a proper pedestrian square in front of the Parliament buildings. Plus guaranteeing a stream of pedestrians in the area at all times of day/year and for aesthetic purposes. Admittedly it is an expensive way to get there, but there is no doubt that a busy surface tram line changes the feel of a pedestrian square, and if we are going to spend some extra money, right in front of Parliament seems like the place to do it. I wonder if a short cut and cover stretch that is built when redoing Wellington is actually that expensive.

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Confederation Square is a key meeting place for various events. How does a surface tram work reliably? Are there any existing tunnels under Wellington?

I continue to argue that Wellington is a bad place for a trunk transit route. It should be on Albert and/or Slater. There is a reason why all the buses ran there for decades.

I take your point, but there are disadvantages to having a Quebec oriented line run that far south (time, cost, space). Wellington has also historically been a pretty busy transit route, and I think the city-building potential is higher there, and I really don't see how a short tunnel would impact Confederation Square. If it's going to go further south, I'd rather see it match technology with Ottawa and have it use the O-Train tunnel under Queen for seamless transfers. Likely would have included that in the planning for the Confederation Line though.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Mona Fortier, MP and President of the Treasury Board, saying that she doesn't know if the tramway will be part of the budget - «n’a pas de boule de cristal»/"no crystal ball". Considering her position, one would think she would have some info.

Fergus is optimistic as always, despite the lack of movement from the Feds.

https://www.ledroit.com/2022/03/31/t...94a945d70701c6

She might have info, but she's not going to spill the beans on what's in the budget.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Confederation Square is a key meeting place for various events. How does a surface tram work reliably? Are there any existing tunnels under Wellington?

I continue to argue that Wellington is a bad place for a trunk transit route. It should be on Albert and/or Slater. There is a reason why all the buses ran there for decades.

The Transitway buses did.

The downtown locals did not.

[Admiral Nelson]

Originally Posted by phil235

I wasn't really thinking of conflicts with traffic, but more conflicts with pedestrians and creating a proper pedestrian square in front of the Parliament buildings. Plus guaranteeing a stream of pedestrians in the area at all times of day/year and for aesthetic purposes. Admittedly it is an expensive way to get there, but there is no doubt that a busy surface tram line changes the feel of a pedestrian square, and if we are going to spend some extra money, right in front of Parliament seems like the place to do it. I wonder if a short cut and cover stretch that is built when redoing Wellington is actually that expensive.

We already have a gigantic public square north of Wellington that dwarfs all but the biggest crowds: the Parliamentary Lawn.

If Wellington is shut in large part to motor vehicles, I can't fathom the public value in dumping hundreds of millions into grade separating the tram. In European capitals, trams at grade are normal, and hardly eyesores. Having a visible tramline along Wellington could even contribute in showcasing Canadian civic values.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I mean, if Wellington's not gonna have cars between Bank and Elgin anyhow, there's not really any conflicts to speak of along that stretch. And considering removing cars could more than double the (already generously wide) sidewalks, I don't see it as much of a disruption to pedestrians either. There'll be a handful of events where the trams might have to dead-end for a few hours per year, but if we're being realistic, it's not enough disruption to justify the cost and complication of a tunnel.

But I'm not dogmatic about it being on the surface. I think there are some places where grade-separation might be worth looking into to avoid more regular conflicts or disruption. If I had to choose some stretches, I'd choose these two:

- Wellington from Portage to Kent. This is a stretch with potentially disruptive car traffic and vehicular access points to the Parliamentary Precinct. Although the disruption to tram traffic is relatively minor, passengers still have to cross. Again, I don't think that this is something that requires a tunnel to solve - we know how to make good crosswalks. But having an underground Court station with interior access to Lyon could be a light argument in favour of it. But my actual opinion is that it could be far more easily solved by improving the crosswalks and also offering an underground pedestrian connection from a surface station.

That's sort of what I'm thinking. Drivers think they own the road, which results in frequent collisions, as we see in Kitchener-Waterloo. Underground from the Portage/Wellington intersection, likely the most likely spot for collisions, all the way to Lyon Station, for the best possible transfer link between the STO and O-Train, before re-surfacing after Bank.

Having just that section underground would also facilitate short-turning if running trams down Wellington during events/protests proves infeasible. With a loop, the Chateau Laurier could be that short-turn station.

[J.OT13]

Some movement.

Tramway: la CCN se charge du pont du Portage et de la section ontarienne

Mathieu Bélanger, LE DROIT
22 avril 2022

Les choses semblent vouloir s’activer un peu dans le dossier du tramway de Gatineau. La Commission de la capitale nationale (CCN) annonce la mise sur pied de son Bureau de transport en commun dont le rôle sera de participer à la planification de la mobilité interprovinciale et de plus particulièrement contribuer à coordonner les sections du projet du tramway sur le pont du Portage et à Ottawa.

La mairesse de Gatineau, France Bélisle, vient d’ailleurs de rencontrer tour à tour, en 24 heures, le premier dirigeant de la CCN, Tobi Nussbaum et Alain Miguelez, vice-président aménagement de la capitale et urbaniste en chef de la CCN. Ce dernier sera d’ailleurs responsable du Bureau de transport en commun.

«Ils sont en action et en mouvement, a indiqué Mme Bélisle. Ils sont en train de doter des postes et ils regardent l’option du tramway et du pont simultanément et je trouve ça rassurant dans le discours. Ça nous a aussi permis d’avoir des discussions avec des députés fédéraux pour savoir où ils en étaient dans leur appui et leurs engagements concernant le tramway. Je suis rassurée, je pense qu’ils sont toujours à bord. Il y a des éléments à ficeler, le dossier est complexe, mais d’avoir une personne comme M. Miguelez ça va nous aider.»

La CCN précise toutefois que le mandat du bureau ne comprend pas le 6e pont dans l’est. «Le bureau responsable du 6e lien est sous la responsabilité de Services publics et Approvisionnement Canada, mais notre équipe à la CCN collabore de très près avec eux», précise la porte-parole, Dominique Huras.

Le mandat du bureau sera de contribuer, au nom du gouvernement fédéral, au projet de tramway Gatineau/Ottawa de la Société de transport de l’Outaouais (STO) et de coordonner les sections du projet sur le pont du Portage et à Ottawa, a-t-elle précisé. Ce sera aussi, à plus long terme, de voir à la réalisation de la boucle interprovinciale de transport en commun.

La mairesse de Gatineau dit sentir que le «sentiment d’urgence» est partagé par tous dans ce dossier. «M. Miguelez nous a dit que le projet de tramway est important, prioritaire et qu’il ne fait aucun doute pour lui que c’est un projet qui doit évoluer.»

https://www.ledroit.com/2022/04/22/t...c1c735b3532b7b

[J.OT13]

For those who may have missed it, STO has a tramway related playlist on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...CqkyGRCM6g0Com

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

For those who may have missed it, STO has a tramway related playlist on YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...CqkyGRCM6g0Com

I clicked and was expecting a bunch of tramway-themed songs!

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I clicked and was expecting a bunch of tramway-themed songs!

Sorry to disappoint!

[Artking]

Québec solidaire propose un tramway dans l’est de Gatineau

Radio-Canada
Publié hier à 9 h 31

La co-porte-parole de Québec solidaire (QS), Manon Massé, est de passage en Outaouais dimanche pour présenter son plan en transport et rencontrer des citoyens opposés à un projet d’exploitation minière dans la MRC de Papineau.

Québec solidaire propose de révolutionner le transport dans les principales villes du Québec, dont Gatineau.

La co-porte-parole du parti, Manon Massé, appuie le projet de tramway déjà en cours entre Gatineau et Ottawa, mais souhaite développer également une nouvelle ligne de tramway qui relierait aussi l’est de la ville. De plus, deux nouvelles lignes d’autobus à haute fréquence seraient ajoutées.

Cela représenterait un investissement d’environ 2 milliards de dollars.

"Notre Révolution transport, elle est pour l’ensemble du Québec. Et Gatineau aura sa juste part. Ça fait trop longtemps que le transport collectif est négligé ici, et pourtant, on est dans la troisième région métropolitaine d’importance au Québec. Avec un gouvernement solidaire, les citoyens et citoyennes de Gatineau auront davantage d’options pour se déplacer, des options écologiques, efficaces, fiables et confortables," a déclaré Manon Massé.
Le candidat de Québec solidaire dans Hull, Mathieu Perron-Dufour, était aux côtés de la porte-parole de son parti dimanche pour l’annonce. Il a indiqué que l’ajout d’une ligne de tramway vers l’est représenterait un tracé de 14 km jusqu’au boulevard Labrosse dans le secteur de Gatineau.
Il souhaite également l’ajout de différentes lignes d’autobus à haute fréquence afin de desservir davantage le cégep de l’Outaouais, le cégep Heritage, l’École secondaire Mont-Bleu et le boulevard de l’Aéroport.


Le plan proposé par Québec solidaire pour le transport en commun à Gatineau, dont le tramway et l'ajout de lignes d'autobus.
PHOTO : QUÉBEC SOLIDAIRE

[lrt's friend]

There is our looping tramway, but in old Hull, not in downtown Ottawa.

Whether it is lousy transit connections, the lack of direct service on even most trunk lines, or more and more street blockades, it seems we don't want people to come to downtown Ottawa anymore. We expect people from suburban east Gatineau to transfer at a local LRT station and then again in downtown Hull and then again in downtown Ottawa if their destination is the Rideau Centre, U of O, or the Byward Market. Give me a break! Somebody needs to put on their thinking cap. This is all about engineering and capacity planning rather than offering the customer something that is easily useable and offers efficient travel times.

I tell you that the Hurdman transfer is now a big barrier for me wanting to go downtown. It always make me think twice because of the potential long wait times out in that field of nothingness on my way home.

[J.OT13]

First off, they can promise the Moon and it doesn't matter because they won't get elected.

I hope that $2B represents Quebec's 50%, because that project would cost a the very least $4B.

I agree with LRT's Friend that both Lines would need to use the NCC's proposed Hull-Ottawa loop.

[spotlight]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

First off, they can promise the Moon and it doesn't matter because they won't get elected.

I hope that $2B represents Quebec's 50%, because that project would cost a the very least $4B.

I agree with LRT's Friend that both Lines would need to use the NCC's proposed Hull-Ottawa loop.

Isn't it funny that they would likely expect the federal govt to chip in with some funding to make their proposals happen but also want to hold another referendum to separate...

They proposed so many large scale projects in Montreal and Quebec City and here among others, where there's no way that the province and cities would be able to pay it all which means federal help would be needed. I guess they think people will just overlook that and focus on all these shinny projects they're proposing.

I agree that they're not going to get elected, but i just hate the hypocrisy.

[J.OT13]

Honestly shocked that their plan preserves the link to Ottawa, but not surprised it doesn't include the loop and none of the "newly" proposed lines plug-into the Ottawa link.

I wish the entire political class in Quebec would drop the Sovereignty question. It would give Quebecers much more realistic options and we could focus on more important things.

"Fix" Quebec before separating. Don't put the cart before the horse.

[spotlight]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Honestly shocked that their plan preserves the link to Ottawa, but not surprised it doesn't include the loop and none of the "newly" proposed lines plug-into the Ottawa link.

I wish the entire political class in Quebec would drop the Sovereignty question. It would give Quebecers much more realistic options and we could focus on more important things.

"Fix" Quebec before separating. Don't put the cart before the horse.

Or don't have that horse at all and stop talking about separating forever and be done with it.. Or if you're going to do it, Gatineau/Outaouais needs to separate from Quebec and join Ontario. We're tied at the hip and we can't make that more difficult.

[lrt's friend]

Isn't the sovereignty cause a cause of the previous generation for the most part? I was under the impression that most Quebecers are now secure in their language and culture within Canada. I have certainly seen a major shift over the last 20 years. But, maybe I am mistaken.

[Acajack]

It will never go away completely and there will always be a chance that it will come back to the fore.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It will never go away completely and there will always be a chance that it will come back to the fore.

We saw what happened during the last period of great uncertainty. During that time, Montreal really faded as a city. Since the issue has calmed down, Montreal is booming.

[Richard Eade]

Any ideas on where the Gatineau Tram plan sits with a CAQ win? Quebec Solidaire was keen on expanding electric tram plans, but I don't recall where the CAQ stands.

[originalmuffins]

As much as I like to rip on the NCC, their push for a gatineau ottawa tram loop is a good idea... maybe it can still come to fruition but who knows