Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[i2theSKY]

Originally Posted by SLCHenry

Astra is only 39.

With their final update of Astra they started calling it 40 instead of 39 but the height only increased slightly. According to some in the know on this site their are plans for taller buildings than Astra in the pipeline. Hopefully they come to fruition.

Originally Posted by wrendog

LOL. Nah, the reputation is just the same. It's been that way for years. I'm certain SLC has improved dramatically since the first ASG 30 years ago, but stereotypes will continue to remain.

Agreed, people already have their built in stereotypes (in all there uninformed glory). Barkley had nothing but good things to say about SLC until the last day, not sure what changed. Outside of the Barkley's and internet warriors of the world, I think it's still possible SLC picked up a bit of street cred with the general public.

[zurich]

Originally Posted by i2theSKY

With their final update of Astra they started calling it 40 instead of 39 but the height only increased slightly. According to some in the know on this site their are plans for taller buildings than Astra in the pipeline. Hopefully they come to fruition.



Agreed, people already have their built in stereotypes (in all there uniformed glory). Barkley had nothing but good things to say about SLC until the last day, not sure what changed. Outside of the Barkley's and internet warriors of the world, I think it's still possible SLC picked up a bit of street cred with the general public.

My guess is that Shaq and Barkley don't like to ski, snowboard, mountain bike or hike or at least its not a priority. So, they probably think places like Cleveland are amazing because of its nightlife. To each their own..

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by SLCHenry

I was looking at the new tallest buildings for states with such under construction and SLC was at the bottom of the list. I'm pretty sure the Wasatch Front has ~2.8 million people and yet we still don't have a 500+ footer. Excited about Astra but it looks like Boise has a proposed building that is 40 stories and Astra is only 39. When will SLC catch up with the rest of the US? Omaha and Des Moines have smaller populations than the SLC metro and yet they have 600 footers.

I don't understand your comment. There are a ton of states with shorter tallest buildings, and many that don't have taller ones under construction. What criteria are you comparing it to?

Also, this is why going only by the tallest is kind of pointless. We may not have a taller tallest building than Omaha or Des Moines, but we have far more tall buildings.

Salt Lake City has 9 buildings of 100+ meters with 2 more under construction (and several just under 100 meters). Des Moines has 5 (with a couple more just under), Omaha has 2, with 1 under construction, and Boise is only just getting their first 100-meter building. Phoenix has about 5 million people in their metro, but only 1 building taller than Astra/Wells Fargo/COB, and only 18 total at 100+ meters. Obviously better than SLC, but not by much considering their size.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by zurich

My guess is that Shaq and Barkley don't like to ski, snowboard, mountain bike or hike or at least its not a priority. So, they probably think places like Cleveland are amazing because of its nightlife. To each their own..

I think some, if not all, of the comments from Shaq and Barkley are due to where they were staying. I heard from many people that they stayed at the Grand America. While a very nice hotel, it is not exactly close to anything yet.

I think that had they stayed at the Hotel Monaco, their experience would have been vastly different.

We have talked in the past about the E/W connections between the CBD and the Gateway and are only now really seeing this fill in. The void is worse between the Grand and Little Americas and the CBD. Once this starts to fill in, I think that perceptions will change further.

[freeshavocado]

Originally Posted by Makid

I think some, if not all, of the comments from Shaq and Barkley are due to where they were staying. I heard from many people that they stayed at the Grand America. While a very nice hotel, it is not exactly close to anything yet.

I think that had they stayed at the Hotel Monaco, their experience would have been vastly different.

We have talked in the past about the E/W connections between the CBD and the Gateway and are only now really seeing this fill in. The void is worse between the Grand and Little Americas and the CBD. Once this starts to fill in, I think that perceptions will change further.

You think they were walking around the neighborhood? I always assume celebrities like Shaq and Barkley are taken by car to clubs/events. Maybe they were just disappointed by the strip clubs.

[Atlas]

Great point about the Grand America, Makid. The gulf between 600S and 400S, and west of Main starting around 400S, forms a real walkability/interest barrier around downtown. Hopefully we see more infill there soon.

Regarding the skyline discussion, I think we just need a 60 story building and our skyline will immediately jump up a weight class.

Another nice shot by Scott Taylor:

[dakben]

Originally Posted by zurich

My guess is that Shaq and Barkley don't like to ski, snowboard, mountain bike or hike or at least its not a priority. So, they probably think places like Cleveland are amazing because of its nightlife. To each their own..

To be fair, skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking and most hiking aren't actually in Salt Lake City. Sure, they're very close, but if you're in town for a conference and don't have a car, there really isn't a LOT to do in SLC that stands apart. We do have GREAT food. Sight seeing stuff? Mostly LDS history, which isn't a draw for most people. Museums? The University has a couple of good museums, but they're certainly not world-class.

Salt Lake is my home, and I accept it for what it is, and I mostly enjoy it. But it isn't a vibrant and exciting city. Hopefully we're getting close to becoming that as we progress.

[Atlas]

A large museum with general appeal would be a fantastic addition to downtown SLC. I've often thought that Block 40 would be a great spot for a museum given its central location in the Exchange Place district and proximity to transit. It also seems like something family-friendly that CCR would be open to including in their eventual development plans for the block.

The U already has the natural history and art museums, so maybe a science & industry museum? Or a Utah state history museum? Maybe both combined?

[John_Walker]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

Salt Lake City has 9 buildings of 100+ meters with 2 more under construction (and several just under 100 meters). Des Moines has 5 (with a couple more just under), Omaha has 2, with 1 under construction, and Boise is only just getting their first 100-meter building.

Just putting in plug for Omaha since it's where I'm from lol. Omaha has 2 proposals brewing that I know of that would all be over 100 meters and 2 more that could also reach that height. A 400+ footer at the old Union Pacific site, a 350+ footer at the current site of the State Building, a 25+ story residential tower by an Austin-based developer (I think it is LV Collective), and then Mutual of Omaha has plans for a second tower that could be up to 375 ft.

Also will add that the Omaha Chamber and other entities there look to SLC for inspiration when it comes to public transportation (Omaha's streetcar) and urban core growth.

[Paniolo Man]

Originally Posted by Atlas

A large museum with general appeal would be a fantastic addition to downtown SLC. I've often thought that Block 40 would be a great spot for a museum given its central location in the Exchange Place district and proximity to transit. It also seems like something family-friendly that CCR would be open to including in their eventual development plans for the block.

The U already has the natural history and art museums, so maybe a science & industry museum? Or a Utah state history museum? Maybe both combined?

We're already getting a state history museum at the capitol, whether it's close enough to downtown is up for debate.

[delts145]

Too bad Le Meridien or the Asher Adams weren't open yet. I think the location and vibe would have been a much better fit for Barkley or O'Neil.

[Comrade]

Chuck likes to ruffle feathers. It's his MO. Remember when he called women from San Antonio fat? It was a running joke - to the point Turner had to put an end to it. He likes to get a rise out of people and play, in a weird way, the lovable villain.

Reminds me of Lee Corso somewhat. I remember he came to Salt Lake for ESPN GameDay (back in 2010 when Utah got boat-raced by TCU) and he joked Salt Lake was a lovely city but it was no Provo. It's just needling people and the reality is, the most thin-skinned people I've ever met are Utahns. They always get so upset when someone trashes the state. They take it 100% personally. Which is funny because just last week, Utah's governor was hating on California.

Originally Posted by dakben

To be fair, skiing, snowboarding, mountain biking and most hiking aren't actually in Salt Lake City. Sure, they're very close, but if you're in town for a conference and don't have a car, there really isn't a LOT to do in SLC that stands apart. We do have GREAT food. Sight seeing stuff? Mostly LDS history, which isn't a draw for most people. Museums? The University has a couple of good museums, but they're certainly not world-class.

Salt Lake is my home, and I accept it for what it is, and I mostly enjoy it. But it isn't a vibrant and exciting city. Hopefully we're getting close to becoming that as we progress.

This is pretty spot on. Unless you specifically come to Utah for skiing (which is only seasonal), the resorts are irrelevant to the level of fun the city and community have to offer. I'm guessing most people who were here for All Star weekend were not interested in venturing into the mountains to ski.

Salt Lake is definitely getting better but it still has a very limited nightlife, especially to outsiders who might not know the inner-workings of the city. The truth is, a lot of cities have an entertainment district that are very active into the early hours of the morning. Salt Lake doesn't have that - with Main Street about the closest but while the last call is earlier than most cities in th region (Boise, Denver, California cities, Seattle are all at 2am, Portland is at 2:30am and Phoenix, like SLC, is at 1am), that isn't even the issue - it's just, again, the inability to have a centralized late-night entertainment district somewhere within the downtown.

We've talked about how the Gateway would be a fantastic option for this, but the liquor license capacity - and the fact you can only have one bar per 10,200 residents, limits the scope of such district.

I've mentioned before that Phoenix's (technically Glendale) Westgate would be a perfect template for the Gateway - just obviously more urban. It's right next to the Cardinals' football stadium (and used to be next to the NHL arena before the Coyotes relocated to ASU's hockey arena):



It's got a very tourist-centric vibe to it and I think it would absolutely work as a sports/entertainment complex where the Gateway is - something that 100% distinguishes itself from the rest of the Salt Lake Valley. Put in a bunch of lights, flashy signs. Make it a draw.

Hopefully the Gateway can evolve even more into that.

Or close Main Street off to traffic and create a plaza like they did in the summer the last couple years (not sure if they did it last summer):

[wrendog]

I agree that a dedicated entertainment/bar district would do wonders for SLC reputation

[rockies]

I agree with dakben and Comrade... the only thing distinguishable about SLC's nightlife are the restrictions on it. I feel like a lot of the criticism from athletes/attendees has been somewhat playful as absolutely no one would expect nightlife here hahahaha

Although not the central issue, I can't wrap my head around why there should be a 1am cutoff to begin with. I recently came back from living in a 24/7 nightlife city and Salt Lake will never be the same for me. I can't remember who but someone mentioned the sort of late-night ecosystem effect of bars being open later that gives other businesses opportunities to stay open later. It's not about people staying at bars until 2:30am but maybe nearby businesses can justify being open an hour or two later than they currently are if there is more sustained traffic into the evening.

[bob rulz]

The reason for a 1am last call is simple - it's 1 less hour for the heathens to have fun.

[mstar]

I was able to attend a few of the events during All Star weekend from the Crossover event to the Celebrity All Star Game. I didn't have tickets for the main event, unfortunately. I was downtown quite a bit Friday, Saturday and Sunday. My take was that this was very successful for Salt Lake. Everyone I interacted with was having a good time. People seemed to be impressed with Salt Lake (some even acted surprised at being impressed). The individuals I talked with seem to love Salt Lake. Despite Chuck and Shaq's comments, the overall TNT broadcasts were almost like a Salt Lake commercial, promoting the area pretty heavily. I think this was good.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

I don't understand your comment. There are a ton of states with shorter tallest buildings, and many that don't have taller ones under construction. What criteria are you comparing it to?

Also, this is why going only by the tallest is kind of pointless. We may not have a taller tallest building than Omaha or Des Moines, but we have far more tall buildings.

Salt Lake City has 9 buildings of 100+ meters with 2 more under construction (and several just under 100 meters). Des Moines has 5 (with a couple more just under), Omaha has 2, with 1 under construction, and Boise is only just getting their first 100-meter building. Phoenix has about 5 million people in their metro, but only 1 building taller than Astra/Wells Fargo/COB, and only 18 total at 100+ meters. Obviously better than SLC, but not by much considering their size.

I'm from SLC and always cheer for it to do well, enjoy all the great progress downtown. But I have to throw some love out to Phoenix, as my new hometown for a long time now. The SLC CSA has about 3 million and Phoenix has about 5 million, so PHX is about 1.7x the size of SLC. It's bigger here but not that much bigger and it wasn't all that long ago that SLC was larger than Phoenix but it's grown fast in the valley of the sun.

At 1.7x the population size Phoenix has about 2.1x more buildings over 200' than SLC, either built or under construction. Tempe has about another 12 buildings 200' or taller as well, which aren't counted in this figure. So by ratio of buildings over 200' per capita Phoenix is ahead of SLC and gaining. PHX will not have a plethora of giant buildings soon due to the airport proximity to downtown but it's gaining a lot in the 200-400' range and the relatively street energy of the downtown areas is noticeably different.

PHX
- 64 total buildings either built or under construction rising 200' ore more
- 14 additional buildings over 200' either proposed, under review or approved. - - 78 buildings over 200' could be the number soon for PHX soon give or take some.

SLC
- 31 buildings either built or under construction rising 200' or more.
- 4 additional buildings over 200' either proposed, under review or approved.
- 35 buildings over 200' could be the number soon for SLC give or take some.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Chuck likes to ruffle feathers. It's his MO. Remember when he called women from San Antonio fat? It was a running joke - to the point Turner had to put an end to it. He likes to get a rise out of people and play, in a weird way, the lovable villain.

Reminds me of Lee Corso somewhat. I remember he came to Salt Lake for ESPN GameDay (back in 2010 when Utah got boat-raced by TCU) and he joked Salt Lake was a lovely city but it was no Provo. It's just needling people and the reality is, the most thin-skinned people I've ever met are Utahns. They always get so upset when someone trashes the state. They take it 100% personally. Which is funny because just last week, Utah's governor was hating on California.



This is pretty spot on. Unless you specifically come to Utah for skiing (which is only seasonal), the resorts are irrelevant to the level of fun the city and community have to offer. I'm guessing most people who were here for All Star weekend were not interested in venturing into the mountains to ski.

Salt Lake is definitely getting better but it still has a very limited nightlife, especially to outsiders who might not know the inner-workings of the city. The truth is, a lot of cities have an entertainment district that are very active into the early hours of the morning. Salt Lake doesn't have that - with Main Street about the closest but while the last call is earlier than most cities in th region (Boise, Denver, California cities, Seattle are all at 2am, Portland is at 2:30am and Phoenix, like SLC, is at 1am), that isn't even the issue - it's just, again, the inability to have a centralized late-night entertainment district somewhere within the downtown.

We've talked about how the Gateway would be a fantastic option for this, but the liquor license capacity - and the fact you can only have one bar per 10,200 residents, limits the scope of such district.

I've mentioned before that Phoenix's (technically Glendale) Westgate would be a perfect template for the Gateway - just obviously more urban. It's right next to the Cardinals' football stadium (and used to be next to the NHL arena before the Coyotes relocated to ASU's hockey arena):

It's got a very tourist-centric vibe to it and I think it would absolutely work as a sports/entertainment complex where the Gateway is - something that 100% distinguishes itself from the rest of the Salt Lake Valley. Put in a bunch of lights, flashy signs. Make it a draw.

Hopefully the Gateway can evolve even more into that.

Or close Main Street off to traffic and create a plaza like they did in the summer the last couple years (not sure if they did it last summer):

That is so spot on regarding Gateway following a Westgate like setup, believe it or not without the Coyotes there it's only become more busy with more frequent concerts and the casino directly to the North now being built out.

This Roosevelt area of downtown Phoenix is something SLC could really use. Denver has a similar area that's really fun to visit. There's a monthly art-walk event that takes place there and is insanely busy now. Would love to see SLC have something like this going on when I come up to visit.

[freeshavocado]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Salt Lake is definitely getting better but it still has a very limited nightlife, especially to outsiders who might not know the inner-workings of the city. The truth is, a lot of cities have an entertainment district that are very active into the early hours of the morning. Salt Lake doesn't have that - with Main Street about the closest but while the last call is earlier than most cities in th region (Boise, Denver, California cities, Seattle are all at 2am, Portland is at 2:30am and Phoenix, like SLC, is at 1am), that isn't even the issue - it's just, again, the inability to have a centralized late-night entertainment district somewhere within the downtown.

I 100% agree that SLC has a limited nightlife compared to some other cities.

But the Main Street block between 300 S and 400 S is clearly the centralized late-night entertainment district within downtown. That block has around 15 bars and a few late night food spots. I've found myself waiting in line at Pie Hole at 2:30 in the morning quite a few times. Has always felt vibrant (or messy) past 1 am. There's also Gallivan Plaza a block north with its concerts and festivals in the summer. The area has capacity for so much more too. There are some cool empty spaces on Exchange Pl, which intersects the block. And potential for spillover onto Gallivan Ave where there's already one bar. And then on east through the new alleyway that connects to Edison St / 200 S with their 7 bars.

Yes, last call needs to be extended, and Main St needs to be closed to traffic permanently. But I don't see another part of town that competes or will compete in the near future as a centralized late-night district. Maybe Gateway will get there someday.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by freeshavocado

I 100% agree that SLC has a limited nightlife compared to some other cities.

But the Main Street block between 300 S and 400 S is clearly the centralized late-night entertainment district within downtown. That block has around 15 bars and a few late night food spots. I've found myself waiting in line at Pie Hole at 2:30 in the morning quite a few times. Has always felt vibrant (or messy) past 1 am. There's also Gallivan Plaza a block north with its concerts and festivals in the summer. The area has capacity for so much more too. There are some cool empty spaces on Exchange Pl, which intersects the block. And potential for spillover onto Gallivan Ave where there's already one bar. And then on east through the new alleyway that connects to Edison St / 200 S with their 7 bars.

Yes, last call needs to be extended, and Main St needs to be closed to traffic permanently. But I don't see another part of town that competes or will compete in the near future as a centralized late-night district. Maybe Gateway will get there someday.

For me it's the weak drinks, I can't get adjusted to that when I'm visiting SLC, later hours is one thing but ordering 3-4 drinks to feel like 1 or 2 when I'm home is not only expensive but really bad for caloric intake. For the love of our sugar levels, get rid of the stupid liquor measurement devices for pouring drinks!