LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by liat91

Hate to rain on the parade, but I can't see the silver lining in the tagging on Oceanwide. It's grotesque, esp. on modern looking towers like these.

I think a lot more places than the OC would not like this, like everywhere, including NYC.

Considering that they (the vandals) could've done a whole lot worse (breaking windows, setting fires), tagging windows with rather in offensive wording is the least worst thing that could've happened. Certainly drawing attention to the buildings.

[dax_gray]

I'm an artist and I really dislike the graffiti on Oceanwide. Graffiti anywhere for that matter.

[scania]

Originally Posted by dax_gray

I'm an artist and I really dislike the graffiti on Oceanwide. Graffiti anywhere for that matter.

To be fair….different strokes for different folks. Definitely doesn’t mean one art form is better than any other of the plethora forms of art.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by citywatch

you're partly correct, but likely mainly for ppl who are very picky about the finer points of urban design or architecture. For probably more ppl...resident or visitor....dtla needs to clean up things like the parking lots or small older properties around the onni apt tower.

I mean, yeah, that goes without saying. New development will replace parking lots and upgrade underutilized properties, bringing in more people. More people, especially residents, will offset the disproportionate number of bums and druggies and perhaps improve overall public safety. This is what comes with gentrification.

Dirtiness/ugliness (though not lack of safety) is tolerable to a degree but only if it's offset by Parisian-like architecture or Hong Kong-like vibrancy.

But clean and banal/cookie-cutter is boring, and it's something that cities all around the world are struggling with. It's harder to create interesting urbanism nowadays — lots of buildings with bit footprints, blank walls, visible window-washing infrastructure, etc.

I'm willing to give this one a pass, since the concept of skyscrapers and vertical living are still relatively nascent to LA. But if all of South Park ends up looking like one big master-planned development designed by Onni... eek. Luckily, we've been seeing proposals with much classier architecture. If it means waiting, then I'll continue to be patient.

[Quixote]

This, for instance, would be a "world-class" block if both projects are built and not value engineered. They by themselves wouldn't add much in the way of pedestrian activity, but they would make DTLA at pedestrian level more interesting.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by ajbeaver25

I'm new to the skyscraper/construction community and I've heard a lot of negative criticism towards buildings having a podium. Why is this?

Welcome!

Not all podiums are terrible. See La Perla at 4th/Broadway. Here the podium is context-specific in that it's flush with the height of the neighboring Judson. It contains housing rather than parking, and there's pretty good exposure to the sidewalk at ground level.

The podiums that get criticized (like this one) are ones that are multi-level parking garages, and take up a much larger footprint than the towers that sit atop it — sometimes half or even the entire block.

Buildings with small footprints — ones that are narrow and taller than they are wide, like this street in Tokyo — generally make for more interesting and vibrant urbanism because they feel (and are) less monolithic. Narrow buildings mean smaller storefronts. Smaller storefronts mean more storefronts on one block. More storefronts mean more businesses. More businesses mean more people.

Narrow buildings also increase competition among developers and property owners (because there are simply more of them), putting downward pressure on rents (housing and retail). With this type of urban environment being rich in amenities, it becomes an attractive place to live and work. More people justifies pedestrian-centric design elements (i.e., wide sidewalks) and expensive investments in transit infrastructure (i.e., subways). All these elements combined increase land valuation, which invites developers to place a premium on architecture.

Unfortunately, even newly constructed with dense storefronts aren't quite able to replicate older urbanism because of newer zoning regulations, poor/er design, and expensive rents that price out small businesses.

[citywatch]

Originally Posted by Radio5

It is kind of neat. It's like LA got it's edge/creativity back, like New York in the 80s/90s. In many ways, this does add to the appeal of creatives to come or stay here.

makes me think of the way the very gritty east side of dtla for decades has attracted creative types, due largely to low rents & inexpensive bldgs. So all the new devlpt....gentrification....in the arts distr may be a double edged sword.

• Video Link

Originally Posted by Quixote

But clean and banal/cookie-cutter is boring, and it's something that cities all around the world are struggling with.

given what I describe above, the good & bad of urbanism, planning, gentrification, architecture & the economy are unpredictable. What I think is the best outcome may not actually be the best, while what you think will be the best outcome may actually be better. But it works both ways too. Parts of dtla like this...not so much things like the design of an onni apt tower....for too many ppl probably puts too much stress on the way they're going to grade LA. This isn't lovable, so when ppl say 'I love Paris' or 'I love NYC', 'I love SF'.....'I love Madrid'....they're influenced by the general attractiveness of a city.


alamy

[craigs]

Update on Olympic + Hill's progress, from LA Reddit:

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by citywatch

makes me think of the way the very gritty east side of dtla for decades has attracted creative types, due largely to low rents & inexpensive bldgs. So all the new devlpt....gentrification....in the arts distr may be a double edged sword.

• Video Link



given what I describe above, the good & bad of urbanism, planning, gentrification, architecture & the economy are unpredictable. What I think is the best outcome may not actually be the best, while what you think will be the best outcome may actually be better. But it works both ways too. Parts of dtla like this...not so much things like the design of an onni apt tower....for too many ppl probably puts too much stress on the way they're going to grade LA. This isn't lovable, so when ppl say 'I love Paris' or 'I love NYC', 'I love SF'.....'I love Madrid'....they're influenced by the general attractiveness of a city.


alamy

I thought we were done with the powerline discussions.
THIS IS A DEVELOPMENT PAGE. D.E.V.E.L.O.P.M.E.N.T

And tourists aren't going in the area of the photo. What are you even doing.
Thats like showing a pic of the south bronx for NYC;s forum.

[citywatch]

(Courtesy of Agence Ter/Gruen Associates and LA City Bureau of Engineering)

Thirty years ago, I wrote a front-page article for The Times about what was then the latest redesign of Pershing Square, the much-reworked park perched above an underground parking garage in the center of downtown L.A. There was much rhetoric about how this $14.6 million city-sponsored face-lift — which was heavy on concrete paving and structures such as a purple 10-story bell tower and giant pink cylinder barriers — would revitalize the five-acre park and the surrounding neighborhoods.

Not everyone agreed — I had my doubts too. Soon enough, the naysayers were shown to be right. That renovation, designed by Mexican architect Ricardo Legorreta and landscape architect Laurie Olin, had many artsy touches such as an urban waterfall and a faux seismic fault. But overall, it proved to be alienating. There was little grass and shade and not enough places to comfortably sit (probably to discourage the homeless population from settling in). Access to the park already was difficult because of garage ramps; the new walls and stairways further cut off connection to adjacent streets.

Now the city is taking the first steps to right its mistake. Bulldozers are at work on yet another makeover of Pershing Square, which fills the block enclosed by 5th, 6th, Hill and Olive streets. Recognizing the obvious flop of Legorreta’s plan, a civic group sponsored a redesign contest. The winner, announced in 2016, was the French firm Agence Ter. Its submission called for “radical flatness,” pushing down the garage roof and lowering the entire park to street level, with much more greenery.

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[DTLA Worker]

Hey Everyone,

I did the architectural boat tour on the Chicago River yesterday. Can't recommend it enough. The tour guide was great. So interesting to see the evolution of the skyline in Chicago.

[headcheckjj]

Amazing

How many more stories until it tops out?

Originally Posted by craigs

Update on Olympic + Hill's progress, from LA Reddit:

[craigs]

Originally Posted by headcheckjj

Amazing

How many more stories until it tops out?

Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the tower will be 54 stories. It's hard to count floors from the pic, but just eyeballing it I'd guess there are about another 15 floors to go.

[milquetoast]

Originally Posted by scania

Definitely doesn’t mean one art form

is better than any other of the plethora forms of art.

scania, I'm an artist too.
Art is subjective but that's not the point here.
This is akin to having rats in your house.
You DON'T put your 'art' on someone else's
fixed property. Especially when it sucks for the
whole world to see. There's no 'fairness' here.

[scania]

Originally Posted by milquetoast

scania, I'm an artist too.
Art is subjective but that's not the point here.
This is akin to having rats in your house.
You DON'T put your 'art' on someone else's
fixed property. Especially when it sucks for the
whole world to see. There's no 'fairness' here.

Agree and disagree. I do not believe you should tag someone’s property that’s not yours. I despise the idea that people think that’s ok…with that being said, the whole world doesn’t see it that way. So there are definitely those who not only like the tagging, but love it as an art form. And it’s ALL walks of life that happen to love the coloring of the three towers. And of course, this doesn’t line up well with those who oppose what’s happened to these towers.

[scania]

Originally Posted by LA21st

I thought we were done with the powerline discussions.
THIS IS A DEVELOPMENT PAGE. D.E.V.E.L.O.P.M.E.N.T

And tourists aren't going in the area of the photo. What are you even doing.
Thats like showing a pic of the south bronx for NYC;s forum.

We can have positive and negative critiques on this forum. That person is a broken record…it’s a sickness within his/herself. Everything from that person always has to say something about homeless, crime, grit, no one will visit DTLA, no one will open a business in DTLA, the city better clean up otherwise everyone will leave, etc etc. Every single statement…it’s insane.

We were having a great forum while that person was suspended. I’m counting the days when they ban that individual for good.

[citywatch]

First time in over 60 yrs the NE corner of of 2nd & Olive finally isn't a parking lot.

https://youtu.be/4IMDXVXhRh4?si=_nH37YICvEYnrpHJ&t=290



urbanize.la.com

No one in the media has bothered asking why Colburn school's plans no longer include closing off the small street that runs parallel to lower 2nd St, north of the tunnel...& why the small parking lot south of the site isn't going to be an outdoor plaza.

I know it's supposedly due to city engineers not wanting to damage the tunnel, but no one is asking why isn't the feeder street can't be closed off & at least landscaped? Or ppl walking on it are heavier than cars? However, I've read that when the Golden Gate bridge in SF was closed off to traffic & thousands of ppl were allowed to walk on it, that actually stressed it out more than vehicles would.

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[badrunner]

Originally Posted by scania

We were having a great forum while that person was suspended. I’m counting the days when they ban that individual for good.

Agreed. It was the best this thread had been in years.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by citywatch

given what I describe above, the good & bad of urbanism, planning, gentrification, architecture & the economy are unpredictable. What I think is the best outcome may not actually be the best, while what you think will be the best outcome may actually be better. But it works both ways too. Parts of dtla like this...not so much things like the design of an onni apt tower....for too many ppl probably puts too much stress on the way they're going to grade LA. This isn't lovable, so when ppl say 'I love Paris' or 'I love NYC', 'I love SF'.....'I love Madrid'....they're influenced by the general attractiveness of a city.

Right. It’s all about how things come together. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts.

Tokyo is a city full of mundane architecture and power lines, yet it can make a legit argument for being the greatest city in the world. Why? It’s super vibrant, safe, clean, and well-maintained. The allure of Japanese culture as well as different standards for aesthetics across continents also work in its favor.

The challenge for LA is that DT is so vulnerable to becoming just another North American urban center. Cities in general are becoming less and less unique nowadays. Glassy skyscrapers and high-end shops get old very quickly. What I’ve noticed in my travels is that most people value place-making things like interesting attractions, civic spaces, cool shops, good food and drink options, safety (real and perceived), and convenience (walkable, good public transit). “What’s good for Instagram?” Bonus if you have great architecture and natural beauty. Unless you’re talking the Louvre, British Museum, or Met, among about a dozen others, museum collections don’t seem to matter to the average visitor. But cultural might does count for something, which is why the Broad expansion is a big deal.

[citywatch]

the subj of dtla has so many angles, that spending time not on the topic but on other things indicates some ppl aren't as interested in dtla as they claim they are. This is a version of an article in the NY Times earlier this wk, which was linked to about 2 days ago & is the type of post way more deserving of a response than interest in snark...

LATimes.com

With two major expansions of downtown Los Angeles cultural institutions in the works, Bunker Hill is primed to elevate its status as the region’s leading arts center even as the area around it struggles with persistent homelessness and post-pandemic losses of office tenants. Bunker Hill will soon have the largest concentration of buildings designed by Frank Gehry in the world and promises to become a cultural center “like no other place,” the architect told the Los Angeles Times.

The Broad recently announced a $100-million project that will increase gallery space at one of the city’s most popular museums by 70%, and the Colburn School for performing arts just broke ground on a $335-million expansion that will include a mid-size concert hall — designed by Gehry — that is expected to be in near-constant use for events put on by students, professional artists and academics. “We have come a long way since the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion and the other Music Center venues opened,” Gehry said. “So much great energy has come to the fore.” Bunker Hill is still unlikely to feel similar to cultural centers in other big cities, he acknowledged, and laughed off a reminder that Broad had suggested Grand Avenue could become L.A.’s version of Paris’ Champs-Elysees. “Los Angeles cannot be compared to anywhere else in the world. It’s different than other cities,” Gehry said.

Bunker Hill is slightly removed from the homelessness and safety concerns that trouble the financial district just south of it, said John Sischo, who has worked in the real estate business downtown since the 1980s. “Homelessness is a big problem that keeps office tenants from coming downtown,” he said. Safety issues are both “real and perceived.” The drop in street life from workers staying at home during the pandemic and continuing to work remotely has been a drain on the vibrancy and sense of security in the financial district, which is depressing office leasing and hampering the neighborhood’s comeback, Sischo said. Falling office values have led to foreclosures on some prominent office towers, including 444 S. Flower St., which was owned by Sischo’s company, Coretrust Capital Partners. “Pre-COVID, it was really jelling,” he said of the financial district.

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