The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[sailor734]

Belyea proposal discussed in this TJ article

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/unique-...-ex-arena-raises-conflict-concerns-mayor.

Saint John Mayor Donna Reardon says the fact the proponent is a sitting councillor raises questions around conflict of interest, saying “to me, it’s not kosher.”

Coun Killan is quoted as saying she is recusing herself because she is in a relationship with Harris. However the article reports she has been active online in support of the project.

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Belyea proposal discussed in this TJ article

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/unique-...-ex-arena-raises-conflict-concerns-mayor.

Saint John Mayor Donna Reardon says the fact the proponent is a sitting councillor raises questions around conflict of interest, saying “to me, it’s not kosher.”

Coun Killan is quoted as saying she is recusing herself because she is in a relationship with Harris. However the article reports she has been active online in support of the project.

Is there enough support at council to make this fever dream even come to fruition? Or is this another Harris play to raise his profile?

In looking at council, only Hickey, Killan and Harris would be active proponents. And two are probably knocked out due to conflicts of interests...

[adamuptownsj]

AllAtlantic has a price slash on Place 400 from $6.3M to $3.1M and a change in marketing tactics-- from renovate/add residential to knockdown and build new.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

AllAtlantic has a price slash on Place 400 from $6.3M to $3.1M and a change in marketing tactics-- from renovate/add residential to knockdown and build new.

Tearing down Place 400 and having a huge hole there would be a massive downer to the city and North End, unless of course something new was built in its place ASAP.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

AllAtlantic has a price slash on Place 400 from $6.3M to $3.1M and a change in marketing tactics-- from renovate/add residential to knockdown and build new.

Residential would have some pretty commanding views out the harbour towards Digby.....especially if it had some height.

Location might be a drawback though.

Poor old Main St has never recovered from urban renewal and the widening. I'm old enough to remember watching the Santa Claus parade there when there were businesses along both sides. Fred J Watts hardware, Splanes sporting goods, banks, restaurants, offices etc etc

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by TitleRequired

Is there enough support at council to make this fever dream even come to fruition? Or is this another Harris play to raise his profile?

In looking at council, only Hickey, Killan and Harris would be active proponents. And two are probably knocked out due to conflicts of interests...

I can't see it gaining enough support but with the current push to "do something" about homelessness you never know. Barry Ogden is big on social justice issues so he might be another one to watch.

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Residential would have some pretty commanding views out the harbour towards Digby.....especially if it had some height.

Location might be a drawback though.

Poor old Main St has never recovered from urban renewal and the widening. I'm old enough to remember watching the Santa Claus parade there when there were businesses along both sides. Fred J Watts hardware, Splanes sporting goods, banks, restaurants, offices etc etc

I recall driving by recently and it looked pretty tired. Is it all vacant? Any idea what the commercial vacancy rate is locally?

If location was a key attractor there the lot across the street besides the naval reserve bar building that has been a gay bar, cannabis outlet, and forget whats it is now would have sold a bazillion times.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by TitleRequired

I recall driving by recently and it looked pretty tired. Is it all vacant? Any idea what the commercial vacancy rate is locally?

If location was a key attractor there the lot across the street besides the naval reserve bar building that has been a gay bar, cannabis outlet, and forget whats it is now would have sold a bazillion times.

It was a naval veterans association bar ( called The Mainbrace)......nothing to do with the naval reserves. Originally it was a CIBC branch from the days when Main St was a thriving mix of retail, commercial, office and residential buildings. Most of the south side got demolished all at once while the north between Lansdowne and Metcalf just withered away over time

[Ottawa]

Chris Elias (Fundy Quay, etc) is on the Port Podcast today

https://youtu.be/o3EtCVO_5ec?si=k-dIzEH_YIMb0NOk

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

Chris Elias (Fundy Quay, etc) is on the Port Podcast today

https://youtu.be/o3EtCVO_5ec?si=k-dIzEH_YIMb0NOk

I find him (Chris) very hard to listen to. You just want to poke him and say "hurry up, get to the point"

I zoned out around the 4 minute mark.
Anything new or of note?

edit

Posted earlier over on the Fundy Quay thread. Good precis posted there as well.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by TitleRequired

I recall driving by recently and it looked pretty tired. Is it all vacant? Any idea what the commercial vacancy rate is locally?

If location was a key attractor there the lot across the street besides the naval reserve bar building that has been a gay bar, cannabis outlet, and forget whats it is now would have sold a bazillion times.

Dealermine, a car dealership CRM company, is still in there. DOT too, and a couple smaller tenants including the Pub Down Under and IIRC some small biz offices. The vacancy rate must be stunning.

A great long term move from the city would be connecting either Simonds St or Sheriff St with Fort Latour Dr under the train tracks, and connecting Fort Latour Dr to Station St/Long Wharf paralleling the tracks. Would mean retooling and refreshing some of Harbour Passage, especially under the overpass north of Fort Latour. Even the Latour-Station segment would be great for redevelopment of Smythe St and Place 400.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I find him (Chris) very hard to listen to. You just want to poke him and say "hurry up, get to the point"

I zoned out around the 4 minute mark.
Anything new or of note?

edit

Posted earlier over on the Fundy Quay thread. Good precis posted there as well.

I wasn't expecting witty retort from real estate developers. They rarely satisfy my need for that. I learned one, maybe two things, and that makes it worth watching once. I didn't recharge my jokes to tell at fancy parties and such. But one thing I did think, after reading your summation, was that he didn't have any stories about the work gangs needed at the port in the 50's and 60s. For that I was thankful

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

I wasn't expecting witty retort from real estate developers. They rarely satisfy my need for that. I learned one, maybe two things, and that makes it worth watching once. I didn't recharge my jokes to tell at fancy parties and such. But one thing I did think, after reading your summation, was that he didn't have any stories about the work gangs needed at the port in the 50's and 60s. For that I was thankful

Wasn't looking for witty retort.....just less long winded rambling and more hard information on future plans and timelines

As to the other.....some find the history of Saint John (and by extension the working port) interesting in the context of discussing future development. If you are uneducated on the topic and/or have no interest I suggest not reading posts on that topic.

In a related question, do you usually have trouble keeping your inner assh.........er, I mean snarky nature in check?

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Wasn't looking for witty retort.....just less long winded rambling and more hard information on future plans and timelines

As to the other.....some find the history of Saint John (and by extension the working port) interesting in the context of discussing future development. If you are uneducated on the topic and have no interest I suggest not reading posts on that topic.

In a related question, do you usually have trouble keeping your inner assh.........er, I mean snarky nature in check?

Now now. We are all here to discuss quilting ladies and not to throw shade at others who may prefer an overhang stitch versus loop. That would be improper. Oh wait, wrong forum. LOL

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

Now now. We are all here to discuss quilting ladies and not to throw shade at others who may prefer an overhang stitch versus loop. That would be improper. Oh wait, wrong forum. LOL

Sorry about that. It's possible he might have gotten under my skin just the tiniest bit.

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Sorry about that. It's possible he might have gotten under my skin just the tiniest bit.

All good. But let's be honest, those who loop stitch are just evil and should be banned from any and all quilting bees. LOL

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

All good. But let's be honest, those who loop stitch are just evil and should be banned from any and all quilting bees. LOL

OK, you got me there.

[cdnguys]

[DyAm00394]

Posted this in the Uptown thread, thought I share it in this one too:

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Renderings are now released for the new South Central Peninsula School.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Belyea proposal discussed in this TJ article

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/unique-...-ex-arena-raises-conflict-concerns-mayor.

Saint John Mayor Donna Reardon says the fact the proponent is a sitting councillor raises questions around conflict of interest, saying “to me, it’s not kosher.”

Coun Killan is quoted as saying she is recusing herself because she is in a relationship with Harris. However the article reports she has been active online in support of the project.

Thanks for posting, here's quite the cute little tid bit from the mayor and two councillors including Joanna Killen.



I get a kick out of these comments. The Mayor doesn't want to comment other than saying it's possibly a conflict of interest for Brent Harris and Killen. While, Sullivan says he hasn't even bothered to read it (not to interfere with city staff evaluating it) I call BS... he and any other councillor could read about the other proposals without interfering with city staff.

But, I at least like what councillor Sullivan said, that he's "hopeful" to sell the land to to a good project, which based on the metric given, should be the project that pays the most for the land, provides the greatest number of housing units, and can generate property tax revenue.

While Joanna Killen aptly describes the whole process being a "lead balloon dropped on the neighbourhood"...which is what this whole thing basically feels like already, although, I'd never would have thought to use such a doomsday metaphor. but good on her for evoking such horrendous imagery for what this project could be on the future of her old neighbourhood. Because, that's exactly what this project, if approved, could do the Bayshore neighbourhood: hold back a huge, six acre property from its development potential, AND have the potential to be a far bigger disturbance than the seasonal winter homeless centre that was very much like a lead balloon or nuclear bomb of problems that was dropped on the neighbourhood. If anyone actually believes it will only last seven or ten years, I think they are incredibly naive.


Brent Harris claims its the speed of his project that matters the most, yet, his project will generate very little tax revenue compared to a significant residential development, by the very metric the city is using to assess these proposals. The lack of revenue potential should basically disqualify Brent's proposal from the get go. It would be insane to risk the future development potential of 6 acres of beach adjacent real estate to provide 40 transitional units that are only supposed to last ten years, but that we all know could be there far longer than that!

The problem is, nothing concrete is known about the other proposals other than some vague information mentioned publicly by a few other councillors on Facebook, and some downright misinformation from Brent Harris himself about the NIMBY potential of the other units, along with a bunch of misguided rants about how new residential developments are a big part of the problem. The guy has been absolutely disrespectful, combative, and publicly dismissive with his West Side constituents online, and even brags how he doesn't shy away from conflict—regarding the pushback he's getting from West Siders on Facebook. The tool library has even linked to a petition in favour of the proposal.

____


I'll ask again, do you or anyone else have any suggestions on how to effectively counteract what Brent Harris is trying to inflict on our neighbourhood with this proposal? As I saw you commented in the Moncton Gateway Tower thread... letters of support are generally more impactful than letters of opposition. We don't have a lot to go on here regarding the other proposals, but could some sort of generalized letter of support for residential development be helpful?

Brent Harris has already tried to put the scare into people about the alternative proposals, about traffic, parking, and even the privacy angle...

TitleRequired linked to an oppositional letter writing campaign that was successful for Fredericton residents in their efforts to oppose a shelter from operating near an established residential neighbourhood... I think this type of campaign could be helpful regarding the Belyea.

Could a letter campaign supporting new, residential development also be helpful in convincing the city to approve the other proposals? People don't want to take this sitting down after the quagmire of the Belyea Area winter homeless shelter that was unleashed on us... More than that, I just think there's so much more potential for that large property than Brent's really short sighted proposal. It's a property with potential for hundreds of ocean view units with even a few generic six storey apartment buildings... Brent Harris proposal would absolutely squander that potential.

So again, if anyone has any suggestions on how West Siders or any other interested people from the Saint John Region could effectively oppose Brent's really bad plan for our neighbourhood... myself and many others would appreciate the advice and ideas! Thanks very much.