DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Yeah they do. It's delivered from Alberta via the Express, Platte, and Rocky Mountain pipelines and railcar. Used as the sour stock necessary for blending with the sweet stock that comes out of the Julesburg in order to produce the product slate.

It's not strictly a tar-sand refinery, which is a misnomer, but it's configured to use a fairly high percentage of sour crude. It's why Suncor bought the facility. Not that the idiots at the Denverite are capable of making the distinction.

That is interesting; thanks for the clarification.

Out of curiosity I did check the DJ Basin crude; apparently as they move away from the lighter 'sweet' spots the crude is becoming heavier, more of a mid-weight grade.

Politics aside Denver is lucky to have the cost savings especially as the EV craze has been changing on a dime. It didn't help when Tesla drivers were left with a dead battery from the recent cold snap. Drivers would pull up to a charging station but nothing happened. It wouldn't function in the sub-freezing weather. Drivers had to call for an Uber driver to get home. Too funny.

For now, EV's are merely an expensive toy (social equity is a joke). The repair costs from an average fender-bender are obscene which has caused insurance costs to jump. $1,000 for a good set of tires that last half as long is also interesting.

[TakeFive]

I hear you

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Not to sound like a crotchety old man, but on the rare occasion I am physically in a store, this is the moment I walk out. You know who doesn't make me stand around like an idiot for 10 minutes waiting for the privilege of buying 4 AA batteries? Jeff Bezos, that's who.

I might waste some cardboard, sure. But D-ysfunctional-OTI has now left me with a choice of 3 of my very own recycling bins to choose from (still no compost, though), so there's always room.

Hopefully you have compensated for your addiction by owning Amazon stock. It jumped 8% today to an all-time high. That could have helped cover some of those goodies.

The only time I was inconvenienced was when I wanted to get a decent flashlight to have with me in the car. I still prefer to eyeball and handle what I want. Recently I needed a new battery for my car key fob. It's a flat silver type used for many things - a CR 2032 to be precise. The first two stores I checked no longer carried them so I ended up at Walmart where I was able to buy a one-pack for $3.00 (on display).

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I hear you


Hopefully you have compensated for your addiction by owning Amazon stock. It jumped 8% today to an all-time high. That could have helped cover some of those goodies.

The only time I was inconvenienced was when I wanted to get a decent flashlight to have with me in the car. I still prefer to eyeball and handle what I want. Recently I needed a new battery for my car key fob. It's a flat silver type used for many things - a CR 2032 to be precise. The first two stores I checked no longer carried them so I ended up at Walmart where I was able to buy a one-pack for $3.00 (on display).

Amazon Basics 4-pack of CR2032 for $7.46. I have all sorts of extra batteries in the closet, including those.

[rds70]

Here is (hopefully) the final design of the 11th and Cherokee building (303 units, 5,600 square feet of retail, 23 stories, 259 feet):

[1000ftDenver]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

That is interesting; thanks for the clarification.

Out of curiosity I did check the DJ Basin crude; apparently as they move away from the lighter 'sweet' spots the crude is becoming heavier, more of a mid-weight grade.

Politics aside Denver is lucky to have the cost savings especially as the EV craze has been changing on a dime. It didn't help when Tesla drivers were left with a dead battery from the recent cold snap. Drivers would pull up to a charging station but nothing happened. It wouldn't function in the sub-freezing weather. Drivers had to call for an Uber driver to get home. Too funny.

For now, EV's are merely an expensive toy (social equity is a joke). The repair costs from an average fender-bender are obscene which has caused insurance costs to jump. $1,000 for a good set of tires that last half as long is also interesting.

Wow, everything you just said is wrong. Do you do that a lot? I know you post a lot. Is it all this bad?

[Ich]

I noticed they are demolishing the building off of 7th and Lincoln. Does anyone know what they are building there? I assume if they are demolishing the building, construction on something is soon to start?

[ejwill04]

Originally Posted by Ich

I noticed they are demolishing the building off of 7th and Lincoln. Does anyone know what they are building there? I assume if they are demolishing the building, construction on something is soon to start?

Assuming it’s the old Turin bike shop, it’s an 18 story apartment building. Substantial project for this corner.



More details on Denver infill: https://denverinfill.com/2023/01/cap...-jan-2023.html

[DenverInfill]

That's the one! Here's the final version:

[rds70]

Another Lincoln Street project:

Redevelopment of the old Gart Brothers office building into a 7 story, 127 unit affordable housing project. The architect is ShopWorks. Developer is Kentro:

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by rds70

Here is (hopefully) the final design of the 11th and Cherokee building (303 units, 5,600 square feet of retail, 23 stories, 259 feet):

Man, that facade incorporation is so jarring.

[TakeFive]

So you're saying that

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Amazon Basics 4-pack of CR2032 for $7.46. I have all sorts of extra batteries in the closet, including those.

if I paid $140 I could get free shipping and a great deal on batteries too? This may be great for your family but for me not-so-much.

The last time I benefitted from Amazon was 3 Christmas's ago when I bought a nice Yamaha bookshelf-sized stereo for my living room. Amazon graciously offered me a ~$60 discount against the ~$270 cost if I would get their credit card. I was happy to oblige them and it's the one and only time I've used that card.

Interestingly, I already had one of the needed batteries in my drawer; problem was I couldn't recall how long I had them and decided that $3 for a store fresh battery was worth the investment.

--------------------------------------
Welcome back

Originally Posted by 1000ftDenver

Wow, everything you just said is wrong. Do you do that a lot? I know you post a lot. Is it all this bad?

Among my many weaknesses I am terrible at reading peoples' minds and have no clue what your 'points' are? You're welcome to explain your thinking or we can leave it where it lies.

In any case 'we' love all those who choose to contribute.

---------------------------------

Speaking of jarring

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

That's the one! Here's the final version:

to borrow an expression from wong

I think partly I'm not used to seeing glass residential projects but those 'stick-on' balconies are awful. Recessed balconies not only look nice but they offer better utility; they feel more like extended living space and often will include outdoor storage. Some projects compromise by having only a portion of the balcony stick out and that works well enough. I've also seen balconies that jut out along recessed parts of the project and that also seems to work better.

I could suffer vertigo on these balconies.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by rds70

Here is (hopefully) the final design of the 11th and Cherokee building (303 units, 5,600 square feet of retail, 23 stories, 259 feet):

Here's to thinking/hoping that their New Jersey partners can help to push this over the funding line.

I really appreciate the efforts of historical preservation. The tales that could be told about all those who showed up at these doors at all hours. Perhaps once a month they could invite long-timers to tell their stories of this block.


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Speaking of Quarterra/LMC

Beloved Littleton garden center to close this summer
March 26, 2022 by Robert Tann, Colorado Community Media


Photo courtesy Colorado Community Media

LITTLETON, Colo. — O'Toole's Garden Center in Littleton, a beloved family-run business for more than 30 years, announced it will be closing Aug. 31 after selling its property to a developer. Adele O'Toole, whose late husband Jim founded the garden center, said the decision was not an easy one.

Lennar Multifamily Communities, a North Carolina-based developer that bought the O'Toole property, had been eyeing the neighboring site at Columbine Square for its proposal to build 359 apartment homes along with new commercial spaces, which it outlined to the City of Littleton in a letter of intent on Aug. 27, 2021.

Afaik, LMC still owns the site but not aware of what their current intentions are.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

I think partly I'm not used to seeing glass residential projects but those 'stick-on' balconies are awful. Recessed balconies not only look nice but they offer better utility; they feel more like extended living space and often will include outdoor storage. Some projects compromise by having only a portion of the balcony stick out and that works well enough. I've also seen balconies that jut out along recessed parts of the project and that also seems to work better.

I could suffer vertigo on these balconies.

I've never really understood why some of these higher end mid-rises don't eliminate some or all balconies in Denver. In more urban cities, many apartments aren't constructed with balconies or only have them for select units. While they are a 'leasing' point, most go unused above 5 stories. Seems like an opportunity to save some money and get better looking buildings...

[mhays]

They offer the theoretical potential of going outside. That's why I wanted one...not because I thought I'd actually "use" it.

Also you can open a whole door, not just part of a window. That can be nice if the weather is right. The juliette balcony can be good for this reason.

I agree that a balcony sticking out in space is hard to use. Too windy. And too public to be relaxing.

They concrete types are also pretty efficient heat fins unless there's a thermal break. In the winter that end of my condo is colder than the rest, and it must cost me a bunch. My city's new energy code is mandating designs that avoid this (reportedly at five-figure typical cost).

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by mhays

...They concrete types are also pretty efficient heat fins unless there's a thermal break. In the winter that end of my condo is colder than the rest, and it must cost me a bunch. My city's new energy code is mandating designs that avoid this (reportedly at five-figure typical cost).

Everything is moving in the direction of continuous insulation with no thermal breaks. It won't be long before our legislature in Colorado is mandating organic wool insulation in lieu of fiberglass or spray in - they're truly off their rocker the last 5 years.

Not to insert a fire poker into the development forum, but the direction our built environment is heading seems woefully short sighted. With how tight we are required to construct buildings now, I'm convinced there will be all sorts of respiratory health issues 30-50 years from now because of all these buildings holding moisture and not getting enough outside air. Whereas in the past buildings could breath naturally, now everything is so tight there is no fresh air transfer outside of mechanical systems which only run intermittently and often break. I mean hell, we air required to foam in between adjoined studs now - it's crazy! I go 2 months in spring and fall not running my HVAC system at all because the weather is just right. That's 1/3-1/4 of a year where no air exchange is happening in these new buildings unless a window is opened. We live in a dry environment so it's *probably* ok for CO but what if you live where there is real moisture all the time - ie everywhere but the central and south west?

[mhays]

Yeah, while I'm down with the general idea of sustainability, a lot of policies will have (are having) unintended effects, from water intrusion issues (water getting sucked in due to differential air pressure) to stale air (a real issue during Covid).

A big one: Cities are pushing development to their suburbs because of overly-onerous energy codes, as well as punitive development fees. Now fewer people can live in walkable areas with good transit, which should be the bigger goals. Or they're paying dramatically higher rents.

About those punitive fees: In Seattle a developer just broke ground on a 271-unit for-profit affordable apartment targeting 60-70% AMI, a block from a rail station. Good? But the City charged them $1,335,957 in fees for this offense, to support lower rungs of affordable housing. That's over $4,900 per unit even before finance and process costs.

[Ejjwheel]

Originally Posted by Robert.hampton

I see a certificate of demolition eligibility was granted for a large building at 18th and logan/pennsylvania that used to belong to the Employers Council (whatever that is). With 17th and logan cleared after that building fire seems like there is potential for a massive parcel to be connected from 17th to 18th along Logan and half of the block on the pennsylvania side towards 18th. Anyone know whats up?

Does anyone have any information on the plans for this block? This sounds very promising, especially when considering what is going in around it, like this project:

February 6, 2024 | "122 Micro Units Planned at 17th & Pennsylvania Street" by Naked Denver: http://http:////www.nakeddenver.com/post/122-micro-units-planned-at-17th-pennsylvania-street

"Another parking lot bites the dust. This time at the corner of N 17th Ave & Pennsylvania Street directly across from the Beloved Ace Eat Serve. The developer is proposing to replace the parking lot with a 122-unit mixed-use building with ground floor retail, 31 vehicle and 68 bike parking spots. This project aims not only to increase residential capacity but also to enhance the area's commercial and recreational offerings, thereby fostering a vibrant and dynamic urban environment."

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by mhays

A big one: Cities are pushing development to their suburbs because of overly-onerous energy codes, as well as punitive development fees. Now fewer people can live in walkable areas with good transit, which should be the bigger goals. Or they're paying dramatically higher rents.

Oh, the energy requirements, especially electrification, are asinine. The amount of distribution development that's required to support heating, cooking, transportation electrification is boggling and you have also have cities resisting the associated distribution grid development that's needed.

Not to mention the rate recovery costs associated with these mandates.

[TakeFive]

Nice Find; Well Done!

Originally Posted by Ejjwheel

February 6, 2024 | "122 Micro Units Planned at 17th & Pennsylvania Street" by Naked Denver:

"Another parking lot bites the dust. This time at the corner of N 17th Ave & Pennsylvania Street directly across from the Beloved Ace Eat Serve. The developer is proposing to replace the parking lot with a 122-unit mixed-use building with ground floor retail, 31 vehicle and 68 bike parking spots. This project aims not only to increase residential capacity but also to enhance the area's commercial and recreational offerings, thereby fostering a vibrant and dynamic urban environment."

FWIW, the link didn't work. Use the blue "insert link" above. Happy to have your effort for sure.

Here's a site photo showing the Bespoke Uptown apartments behind this site:


Courtesy Brown Collective/Naked Denver


Recently completed

Evo on Emerson -- 1833 Emerson St






Courtesy Evo on Emerson

This was the site of the Big Fire in 2018.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by mhays

About those punitive fees: In Seattle a developer just broke ground on a 271-unit for-profit affordable apartment targeting 60-70% AMI, a block from a rail station. Good? But the City charged them $1,335,957 in fees for this offense, to support lower rungs of affordable housing. That's over $4,900 per unit even before finance and process costs.

Instead of punishing developers they should be incentivizing them.

Originally Posted by mhays

A big one: Cities are pushing development to their suburbs because of overly-onerous energy codes, as well as punitive development fees. Now fewer people can live in walkable areas with good transit, which should be the bigger goals. Or they're paying dramatically higher rents.

This is not a good thing.

I'm not anti-suburban but neither am I anti-urban. Fact is many people couldn't care less, in fact would prefer to avoid downtown while others love the urban life and city center. Different Strokes.

Some have suggested this is happening in Denver with developers wanting to avoid the hassle and cost of building near the city center. Not sure this is the case yet as there's still a backlog of proposed projects that beat the deadline when "affordability requirements" were changed.

----------------------------

Thank You!

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Oh, the energy requirements, especially electrification, are asinine. The amount of distribution development that's required to support heating, cooking, transportation electrification is boggling and you have also have cities resisting the associated distribution grid development that's needed.

Not to mention the rate recovery costs associated with these mandates.

This answers a question I've wanted to ask for some time. I've only read general information but was wondering if this was crazy stuff?