YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Air Canada is adding a second daily Non-stop flight n the YvR EWR route this summer departimg at 13:55 on a Max 8

You're about 24 hours late to the game. nname literally posted this just above your post.

Originally Posted by Gordon

I wonder why The Delta flight to JFK is always a Red Eye

In order to maximize connections at JFK.

DL2579 JFK2132 – 0105+1YVR 739 x23
DL1723 YVR2240 – 0715+1JFK 739 x23

That 1am arrival in YVR is pretty shitty though.

[nname]

It's similar time compared to the CX flight.

CX865 JFK 2135 - 0045+1 YVR
CX888 YVR 2305 - 0705+1 JFK

DL is obviously looking to replace that flight.

Originally Posted by Gordon

When are we likely to see the first A220s at yvr?

Probably not in a while. AC seems to be deploying the A220 to YUL first, followed by YYZ. The A220 are too small for either YVR-YUL or YVR-YYZ route, so it's unlikely that we will see them soon (they will be first assigned to domestic flight between YUL and YYC, YEG, and YWG I believe).
Late 2020 or sometimes in 2021 I would say, after AC receive enough of them to deploy them to either YVR or YYC.

By the way, the first A220 for AC (C-GROV) just had its maiden flight today.

[casper]

Originally Posted by nname

It's similar time compared to the CX flight.

CX865 JFK 2135 - 0045+1 YVR
CX888 YVR 2305 - 0705+1 JFK

DL is obviously looking to replace that flight.




Probably not in a while. AC seems to be deploying the A220 to YUL first, followed by YYZ. The A220 are too small for either YVR-YUL or YVR-YYZ route, so it's unlikely that we will see them soon (they will be first assigned to domestic flight between YUL and YYC, YEG, and YWG I believe).
Late 2020 or sometimes in 2021 I would say, after AC receive enough of them to deploy them to either YVR or YYC.

By the way, the first A220 for AC (C-GROV) just had its maiden flight today.

In the old DC9 days I remember the mid-day departure to YOW being a DC9 that was did YVR-YWG-YOW. The A220 is idea for these types of routes.

As a side note in economy back then you would get a complimentary hot meal on both legs. Times have changed.

[Johnny Aussie]

AC’s inaugural to AKL is in the air. AC51 on a 789 is arriving in about 3 hours.

Also QF started its seasonal flights from SYD a couple of days ago.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

AC’s inaugural to AKL is in the air. AC51 on a 789 is arriving in about 3 hours.

Also QF started its seasonal flights from SYD a couple of days ago.

What a/c is QF using?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by whatnext

What a/c is QF using?

744 3 x per week

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Pretty sure if I started my own change.org petition, I’d get more than 1500 signatures.

This being said, you are right. It’s not hard proof of anything.

This is however. Coupled with the fact that during the last census, Turkish Canadians in Vancouver numbered less than 7,000, means VFR traffic simply isn’t there, which in turn means very little O&D from YVR to IST.

So no VFR means no O&D?

I thought VFR was garbage traffic that no one wanted, now it's proof there's no O&D on a route?

Istanbul/Turkey is a major tourist destination and a decent business centre. A small population of Turks in BC does not mean that no one is flying to Istanbul. Hell I've been there and I'm not even remotely Turkish.

Originally Posted by nname

On a related note, seems like AC will add second daily YVR-EWR next summer with 7M8

Seasonal June 1 - Oct 11 (+1 day for return flight)

AC546 YVR 1355 - 2205 EWR D
AC547 EWR 0630 - 0920 YVR D

Ugh, everyone else gets a new destination and we get a bit of lost service back. Whoopee.

I guess the plan is everyone who wants to travel from YVR just walk?

Economic growth - Check
Population growth - Check

... might as well slash capacity like crazy.

I clearly am not understanding how air travel demand works.

[nname]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Ugh, everyone else gets a new destination and we get a bit of lost service back. Whoopee.

I guess the plan is everyone who wants to travel from YVR just walk?

Economic growth - Check
Population growth - Check

... might as well slash capacity like crazy.

I clearly am not understanding how air travel demand works.

It's not like all other airport gain new destinations without losing something in return...

This is from AC:
YYZ gained SJC by reducing SFO by 1x daily (overall reduction in service due to downguage!)
YYZ gained AC to VIE and BRU by kicking the foreign carrier to YUL (it's gain for YUL though)
YUL gained BOG but loses LIM
YYC gained BOS... but looking at all their losses from the past few years... PSP for one.. the total flight from AC is still much less than 3 years ago

As for WS, it's clear by now that they want to grow their YYC base. They would try to route all their traffic there, and trying to kick AC out. But why would AC need to do anything at YVR when WS is barely doing anything either...?


======================================

And bad news probably... TS had just closed YVR-SJO-LIR-YVR for the entire winter season... about 1 week before the first flight...? FLL and PUJ are still scheduled thought. So what will the 32Q do for the 2 days that they supposed to fly to Costa Rica?

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by nname

And bad news probably... TS had just closed YVR-SJO-LIR-YVR for the entire winter season... about 1 week before the first flight...? FLL and PUJ are still scheduled thought. So what will the 32Q do for the 2 days that they supposed to fly to Costa Rica?

I sure hope that’s not the case. I booked yvr-sjo on transat in April just last week.

[SpongeG]

from YVR Facebook

Vancouver International Airport
Yesterday at 10:56 ·
Kia ora! Congratulations to Air Canada on their new non-stop seasonal route from YVR to Auckland, NZ. Last night, we held a special gate celebration event for passengers embarking on the inaugural flight. Flights to New Zealand are available now until March 2020.

[Johnny Aussie]

And Air Canada’s news release.

https://aircanada.mediaroom.com/2019-12-...ugurates-Seasonal-Service-From-Vancouver

Yet another option to fly home....

I’m going EVA Air again from SIN via TPE this week.

[Alexcaban]

Originally Posted by nname

It's not like all other airport gain new destinations without losing something in return...

This is from AC:
YYZ gained SJC by reducing SFO by 1x daily (overall reduction in service due to downguage!)
YYZ gained AC to VIE and BRU by kicking the foreign carrier to YUL (it's gain for YUL though)
YUL gained BOG but loses LIM
YYC gained BOS... but looking at all their losses from the past few years... PSP for one.. the total flight from AC is still much less than 3 years ago

As for WS, it's clear by now that they want to grow their YYC base. They would try to route all their traffic there, and trying to kick AC out. But why would AC need to do anything at YVR when WS is barely doing anything either...?


======================================

And bad news probably... TS had just closed YVR-SJO-LIR-YVR for the entire winter season... about 1 week before the first flight...? FLL and PUJ are still scheduled thought. So what will the 32Q do for the 2 days that they supposed to fly to Costa Rica?

YUL gains TLS however.

---

Regarding TS to Costa Rica, that can't be right, I find it hard to believe that a destination so hot right now doesn't work from YVR, there are ads everywhere in the skytrain.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

And bad news probably... TS had just closed YVR-SJO-LIR-YVR for the entire winter season... about 1 week before the first flight...? FLL and PUJ are still scheduled thought. So what will the 32Q do for the 2 days that they supposed to fly to Costa Rica?

Looks like you can’t book SJO or LIR on TS from anywhere in Canada according to the TS website. Glitch perhaps??

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

So no VFR means no O&D?

I thought VFR was garbage traffic that no one wanted, now it's proof there's no O&D on a route?

Istanbul/Turkey is a major tourist destination and a decent business centre. A small population of Turks in BC does not mean that no one is flying to Istanbul. Hell I've been there and I'm not even remotely Turkish.



Ugh, everyone else gets a new destination and we get a bit of lost service back. Whoopee.

I guess the plan is everyone who wants to travel from YVR just walk?

Economic growth - Check
Population growth - Check

... might as well slash capacity like crazy.

I clearly am not understanding how air travel demand works.

Tourism to Turkey plummeted in 2016 due to security and political concerns (those issues still linger today btw), and is barely recovering now. The recovery is mostly from tourists from Russia, Middle East and Asia, not North America.

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/trave...key/rise-fall-changing-tourism-industry/

According to Turkey’s Ministry of Culture and Tourism, the total number of foreign visitors entering Turkey plummeted from 36.2 million in 2015 to 25.4 million in 2016—a drop of 30 percent. Tourism from the United States fell more than 40 percent from 2015 to 2017, according to the New York Times, which notes a particular reluctance among Western travelers. But now, after a period of relative calm, tourists are returning. In 2017, the number of foreign visitors had rebounded to 32.4 million, with increased popularity among tourists from Russia, Asia and the Middle East.

Now, as for Vancouver's economy, it's a 1 trick pony: Real estate related to Chinese foreign capital. Economic and population growth is all related to foreign capital from China. Remove that, and Vancouver doesn't have much going for it.

Recent issues between Canada/China, plus the fact that Chinese carriers are maxed out in Canada, and the fact that AC/WS aren't interested or capable of adding more flights to China, all explain why YVR has a lack of new destinations or routes, and why passenger number increases are now lingering behind other Canadian hubs like YUL or YYC.

Pretty sure I've said this before. Like it or not, this is what is happening.

The following article is a good read, and Vancouver's economy can be summed up in a few short lines found in the article:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-10-20/vancouver-is-drowning-in-chinese-money

beyond real estate, Vancouver’s economic base is shallow.It’s not the business capital of western Canada—that’s Calgary—and it has few major corporate headquarters or large-scale manufacturing operations. “Asian capital has kept this economy alive, end of story"

I'm not the only one saying it.

======================================================================================================

Originally Posted by nname

It's not like all other airport gain new destinations without losing something in return...

This is from AC:
YYZ gained SJC by reducing SFO by 1x daily (overall reduction in service due to downguage!)
YYZ gained AC to VIE and BRU by kicking the foreign carrier to YUL (it's gain for YUL though)
YUL gained BOG but loses LIM
YYC gained BOS... but looking at all their losses from the past few years... PSP for one.. the total flight from AC is still much less than 3 years ago

?

You're missing quite a lot of YUL destinations there.

AC alone has or will add, on top of BOG....GRU, SEA, BNA, TLS.
TS added MSY and will add CPH and SAN next year.

The only destination in there that YUL already had was TLS.

Even in terms of new airlines, YVR is lagging......

YUL got OS this year, and will get TP and SN next summer.
YVR had no new airlines this year, and will lose HX next year, but gain Sun Country, so no new gains next year either. (still waiting for TK announcement)
YYZ's airline loses are related to AC JV. Not lack of interest.

Total number of destinations:

YYZ: 180+
YUL: 150+
YVR: 119 (several articles say 125, or 126, but yvr.ca 2019 destination pdf shows 119)
YYC: 80

What was it Craig wanted? 144 destinations by 2020....yeah right..

I have to agree with LeftCoaster here. I understand his frustration with the lack of Airline/destination growth at YVR, a situation that is exclusive to Vancouver and cannot be compared to other Canadian airports.

[trofirhen]

Craig Richmond, about to retire in 2020 I believe, spoke enthusiastically in past years about YVR becoming a connecting hub from Asia to South America.
He spoke at the VBoT with maps showing routes linking cities in Japan and China to LIM, GRU, SCL, GIG and so forth. It was ambitious, exciting, the "raison d'être" for YVR going big time.

Now, I rather doubt that will ever happen. A shame, yes, but even worse for YVR if SEA fills that role, as SEA seems to be on a roll garnering new destinations overseas.
Seattle has not only 4 million metro compared to Vancouver's 2.5, but as everyone knows, is a corporate powerhouse. Good stuff, but I'd hate to see YVR eclipsed by SEA overseas.

As thenoflyzone rightly points out, Vancouver put most of its eggs in one basket, and that was Asian - or more precisely, Chinese - capital, to get things moving.
That needed economic diversification was something the city could not achieve, or would not fight for. A real shame, as the consequences are now painfully obvious, in more ways than one.

[red-paladin]

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

. . . Vancouver's economy, it's a 1 trick pony: Real estate related to Chinese foreign capital. Economic and population growth is all related to foreign capital from China. Remove that, and Vancouver doesn't have much going for it . . .

You are so bang on! I knew it. I've been living here for a decades now and I have always been suspicious.

Nothing happening, everyone just hangin on. Crappy airport, Chinese control, all my neighbours not working because there is no economy. They just sit and wait to skim off a bit of gambling money, or launder some, or just get paid straight from Shanghai. So sad. I hate it here. Nothing to do, no growth, rainy, mouldy . . . just 2,800,000 people living the nightmare. And when you look into it you see why. 200+ tower cranes building nothing. Construction at a standstill. Movie business sucks. 3 or 4 oil refineries - they are just stage sets. Ship building? Zippo! Tourism - weak money. Olympics? Never happened. Massive goods transhipment/shipment network is a fake facade. Retail, banking, law, giant universities . . . all crap. Our office buildings are empty: no head offices. Giant trade port with the US? Not there. Air cargo, like passengers, poorly performing. Major port expansions on a huge port: a fraud. Medical research = nothing. TRIUMPH - so what! "Tech sector is booming," that's a lie. And for us here on Skyscraperpage.com, why do they keep throwing up hundreds of highrises destined to be empty except for maybe a bit of laundered cash in the kitchens. There are no people because there is no economy. It's just such a stupid place.

We got nothin! Just still chopin those trees and diggen in the dirt. What a failure. Why are we all here? Why? The trees? Not me. The ocean? Not me. The views? No way.

I just don't know what to think. We have too many eggs in too many baskets! I'm moving to Sherbrooke.


(post note: trofirhen, Vancouver didn't 'put' most of its eggs in one basket, Vancouver laid what eggs it could.)

[Johnny Aussie]

Thanks for that commentary Marshal! I may as well just cancel my upcoming trip.

There seems to be a pattern of blocked messages until someone actually quotes.

The rolling eyes under trofirhen probably confirms my good judgment and not having to read rubbish anymore!

[Hourglass]

Originally Posted by Marshal

You are so bang on! I knew it. I've been living here for a decades now and I have always been suspicious.

Nothing happening, everyone just hangin on. Crappy airport, Chinese control, all my neighbours not working because there is no economy. They just sit and wait to skim off a bit of gambling money, or launder some, or just get paid straight from Shanghai. So sad. I hate it here. Nothing to do, no growth, rainy, mouldy . . . just 2,800,000 people living the nightmare. And when you look into it you see why. 200+ tower cranes building nothing. Construction at a standstill. Movie business sucks. 3 or 4 oil refineries - they are just stage sets. Ship building? Zippo! Tourism - weak money. Olympics? Never happened. Massive goods transhipment/shipment network is a fake facade. Retail, banking, law, giant universities . . . all crap. Our office buildings are empty: no head offices. Giant trade port with the US? Not there. Air cargo, like passengers, poorly performing. Major port expansions on a huge port: a fraud. Medical research = nothing. TRIUMPH - so what! "Tech sector is booming," that's a lie. And for us here on Skyscraperpage.com, why do they keep throwing up hundreds of highrises destined to be empty except for maybe a bit of laundered cash in the kitchens. There are no people because there is no economy. It's just such a stupid place.

We got nothin! Just still chopin those trees and diggen in the dirt. What a failure. Why are we all here? Why? The trees? Not me. The ocean? Not me. The views? No way.

I just don't know what to think. We have too many eggs in too many baskets! I'm moving to Sherbrooke.


(post note: trofirhen, Vancouver didn't 'put' most of its eggs in one basket, Vancouver laid what eggs it could.)

You’re forgetting Amazon. That 1.1 million sq ft they’re taking up in the Post? Fake news. It’s actually going to be condos for rich people from China.

@thenoflyzone - It’s good YUL is growing. For a city with a metro population almost double that of Vancouver, I’ve always thought it weird that YVR serves 66% more passengers per year — or 10 million more passengers. That pony clearly has a lot of legs...

[teriyaki]

I just learnt for the first time today how to add someone to the ignore list, yeesh.