London Construction - Development News Thread #1

[ldoto]

It's London's newest attraction and it's almost ready.



It was hard for contractors testing the new Blackburn Memorial Fountain at the Forks of the Thames yesterday to keep it a secret as water shot 30 metres into the air.

It was a treat for drivers and people walking by -- many of whom stopped and watched the tests.

Landscape architect Ron Koudys says the tests are going well and the fountain meets all expectations.

The tests were delayed a bit by flooding last week.

The fountain could be completed as early as next week.

Fountain at Forks of Thames Passes First Test (VIDEO)
http://www.am980.ca/home/News/GeneralNewsDetail/tabid/967/Default.aspx?id=3721

[tolosulode]

Originally Posted by Snark

Simply amazing how people can take complex technical, social, and financial issues and just bitch, point fingers and call them stupid. Oh, and where do you keep your money tree? I'm sure that the city could use a little of its fruit.

London has a long history of not spending infrastructure money wisely nor taking advantage of rare opportunities. Twice in the last sixty years, offers of substantial funding assistance from federal and provincial departments for transportation infrastructure improvements were refused, one for the "Highbury Expressway" and the other for 400 series highway around the north end of London connecting the 401 to the 402. The result is slow economic growth relative to peer cities across Canada and congested traffic patterns. Major thoroughfares in London are commonly residential in nature (e.g.'s large portions of Highbury Ave., Oxford St., Wharncliffe Rd., Richmond St.). It is not uncommon to have rush hour traffic on these routes slowed by service vehicles such as those used for recycling/garbage pick up. Neighbourhoods along these routes have been compromised and divided by the inordinate volume of traffic required to use them. Alternative routes that ideally suit modern traffic flow are Veteran's Memorial Parkway, Highbury Ave. south of Hamilton Rd., Highways 401 and 402 but the central and north end routes are lacking.
A new set of offers for the funding of infrastructure development will be made by senior government authorities to mitigate the effects of the current economic recession. This will be London's third major offer of funding for infrastructure improvement. This third opportunity should not be wasted nor refused otherwise, as in baseball, London will be OUT for good.

[sparky212]

Isn't the renniasance the tallest building u/c in ontario outside the gta?

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by tolosulode

London has a long history of not spending infrastructure money wisely nor taking advantage of rare opportunities.

This is the truth. If you look at other cities like Kitchener and Windsor, they always take advantage of the handouts. Windsor and Kitchener both have great expressways. Kitchener has a plan to build true rapid transit along with multiple highway upgrades, etc. London does everything piecemeal and never has a plan. I was thinking of writing a book on London called "The Magic of Thinking Small?". Our council is small minded...cities have our size put us to shame.

[london2020]

Originally Posted by sparky212

Isn't the renniasance the tallest building u/c in ontario outside the gta?

Hilton in Niagara is much taller.

[london2020]

Originally Posted by tolosulode

London has a long history of not spending infrastructure money wisely nor taking advantage of rare opportunities. Twice in the last sixty years, offers of substantial funding assistance from federal and provincial departments for transportation infrastructure improvements were refused, one for the "Highbury Expressway" and the other for 400 series highway around the north end of London connecting the 401 to the 402. The result is slow economic growth relative to peer cities across Canada and congested traffic patterns. Major thoroughfares in London are commonly residential in nature (e.g.'s large portions of Highbury Ave., Oxford St., Wharncliffe Rd., Richmond St.). It is not uncommon to have rush hour traffic on these routes slowed by service vehicles such as those used for recycling/garbage pick up. Neighbourhoods along these routes have been compromised and divided by the inordinate volume of traffic required to use them. Alternative routes that ideally suit modern traffic flow are Veteran's Memorial Parkway, Highbury Ave. south of Hamilton Rd., Highways 401 and 402 but the central and north end routes are lacking.
A new set of offers for the funding of infrastructure development will be made by senior government authorities to mitigate the effects of the current economic recession. This will be London's third major offer of funding for infrastructure improvement. This third opportunity should not be wasted nor refused otherwise, as in baseball, London will be OUT for good.

Are you talking about the $30m in funding from the province? Because I wouldn't characterize that as "substantial." However, I was wondering if that is already worked into the budget I posted? Please elaborate.

[sparky212]

sorry I ment to say resedential

[QuantumLeap]

As previously reported, new condo project in the Old East going to Planning Committee later in the month:

Jan 26, 4:45 p.m. - 726-748 Dundas Street - The proposed amendment is to permit the construction an 8-storey mixed use residential/commercial building with an increase in the permitted density of the site to accommodate 154 residential units and a reduction in the minimum front yard depth. Possible amendment to the Zoning By-law Z.-1 FROM a Business District Commercial Special Provision (BDC(19)*D250*H46) Zone which permits a broad range of retail, office, commercial, and residential uses with residential uses limited to the rear portion of the ground floor and on the second floor and above with a maximum height of 46m and a density of 250 units per hectare TO a Holding Business District Commercial Special Provision Bonus (h-67*BDC(19)*D250*H46*B-(_)) Zone to continue to permit the above listed uses with a bonusing provision to accommodate the proposed residential/commercial building subject to a holding provision to ensure that a Record of Site Condition is undertaken. The bonusing provision would permit an additional density of 233 units per hectare on the site (total 483 units per hectare); a reduction in the minimum setback for building height above 12m; balconies to project closer than 3m to the lot line; and a minimum of 30 secure bicycle parking spaces in exchange for specific design features.
File: Z-7544 Planner: Michael Tomazincic

[SlickFranky]

Originally Posted by tolosulode

Twice in the last sixty years, offers of substantial funding assistance from federal and provincial departments for transportation infrastructure improvements were refused, one for the "Highbury Expressway" and the other for 400 series highway around the north end of London connecting the 401 to the 402. The result is slow economic growth relative to peer cities across Canada and congested traffic patterns.

The one thing I always wonder about is how London would have been different if the 402 had passed through the city, rather than connecting to the 401 so far to the south. I drew up a little map here to show what I mean. Not really sure how I feel about this...what do you guys think?

[sparky212]

Originally Posted by QuantumLeap

As previously reported, new condo project in the Old East going to Planning Committee later in the month:

Jan 26, 4:45 p.m. - 726-748 Dundas Street - The proposed amendment is to permit the construction an 8-storey mixed use residential/commercial building with an increase in the permitted density of the site to accommodate 154 residential units and a reduction in the minimum front yard depth. Possible amendment to the Zoning By-law Z.-1 FROM a Business District Commercial Special Provision (BDC(19)*D250*H46) Zone which permits a broad range of retail, office, commercial, and residential uses with residential uses limited to the rear portion of the ground floor and on the second floor and above with a maximum height of 46m and a density of 250 units per hectare TO a Holding Business District Commercial Special Provision Bonus (h-67*BDC(19)*D250*H46*B-(_)) Zone to continue to permit the above listed uses with a bonusing provision to accommodate the proposed residential/commercial building subject to a holding provision to ensure that a Record of Site Condition is undertaken. The bonusing provision would permit an additional density of 233 units per hectare on the site (total 483 units per hectare); a reduction in the minimum setback for building height above 12m; balconies to project closer than 3m to the lot line; and a minimum of 30 secure bicycle parking spaces in exchange for specific design features.
File: Z-7544 Planner: Michael Tomazincic

Do you know whre I could find a rendering of it??

[tolosulode]

Originally Posted by london2020

Are you talking about the $30m in funding from the province? Because I wouldn't characterize that as "substantial." However, I was wondering if that is already worked into the budget I posted? Please elaborate.

Yes, there is currently an offer of funding for infrastructure improvements and there will likely be a similar offers for each of several years to come from senior levels of government.

Originally Posted by SlickFranky;

The one thing I always wonder about is how London would have been different if the 402 had passed through the city, rather than connecting to the 401 so far to the south. I drew up a little map here to show what I mean. Not really sure how I feel about this...what do you guys think?

The route I alluded to would not have displaced the current 402 but rather added an additional route running from the southeast to the northwest to the 402 around the periphery of the city (i.e. ring road). Nevertheless, London's contribution to the project was to be less than 50%.

[manny_santos]

I did hear a passing reference this week to looking at "adding more lanes" at the intersection of Commissioners and Wellington. While Commissioners could use another lane in each direction there, there are some areas of the city in dire need.

Certain corridors need to be six lanes, including Fanshawe Park, Oxford, Highbury, Adelaide, Wellington, Commissioners, and Wonderland. Numerous other areas need to be widened to four lanes, including parts of Commissioners, Oxford, Wonderland, Boler/Sanitorium, Riverside, and Southdale. I was on Fanshawe Park last week heading east towards Masonville, and the lineup at Richmond was all the way up the hill. Took me almost 40 minutes to get to Masonville from my west-end home.

When I have more time, I'll go through my 2005 traffic counts and make a more detailed plan using Google Maps.

Sure, money doesn't grow on trees, but other cities don't have the problems London does. I would be in favour of London and the rest of Middlesex County amalgamating into a Regional Municipality (heck, throw in Elgin and St. Thomas), if it means a regional approach to transportation can be achieved. A regional transit plan involving multiple communities could be achieved. Regional Municipalities like Halton, York, and Waterloo don't seem to have the same problems as cities existing in isolation from the surrounding county.

[JrUrbanDesigner]

Hello everyone,
I am a long time reader, but a first time poster. Great Forum!
Just to give you all a quick bio I’ve lived in London for the past 17 years, I am attending Fanshawe College in the Integrated Land Planning Bachelor degree program and I am very interested in urban design and how it good Urban Design could benefit London.
I've been very active in the planning community for the past 9 months and hope to continue...

I have one comment to make to those who believe our roads need to be wider... Congestion is our Friend. We should start building our cities for the people and not the Automobile Public transit should be the way to get people around and a grid street network should be implemented in every new subdivision to improve connectivity and walkability for pedestrians.

One last thing,
A friend and I have started a blog about Urban Design in London and the Region of Waterloo.. We mostly talk about all sorts of interesting projects from an Urban Design point of view and other stuff as well. If your interested please check it out, add your comments maybe we can spark some conversations on Urban Design.

http://urbanitydesign.wordpress.com/

We will try to update it as much as possible, as new projects pop up in London. If anyone has heard of new project let us know we will try to get you the inside scoop

[ldoto]

welcome to the Londonthread JrUrbanDesigner!!!!!

I took a look at your blog about Urban Design in London and the Region of Waterloo!!!! There is some cool stuff .

Hope to hear from you soon again thanks ldoto.

P.S I have add your blog to my favorites!!!!

[manny_santos]

Unfortunately we are at a point in society where automobiles are here to stay. We have a city designed by people from before us, and we have to deal with it. Our forefathers decided to locate zero industry, virtually no places to work, and spaghetti streets in areas like Byron and Oakridge, so our current generation has to deal with it. We can't just start tearing down subdivisions to build grid-pattern streets and new offices and stores. Public transit is slow and inefficent at moving people. Less congestion means less pollution from idling, and unlike what the environmentalists keep claiming, wider roads don't make tons of new cars magically appear. After Oxford was widened between Wonderland and Hyde Park, sure, there were more cars on Oxford, but traffic on Riverside decreased substantially. It was a win-win situation for that area.

[sparky212]

any word on the grocerie store in the galleria

[JrUrbanDesigner]

Manny Santos, I’m sorry I know this is only my second post and it may seem that I am just a rookie here, however I've got quite about of knowledge under my belt. AND I can't keep silent anymore

You are right that we are a society dependant on the automobile, but will we always continue to be? When the economy starts to recover and oil prices (gas prices) rise once again this time to new highs will as many people drive? I know for a fact that this past summer LTC ridership had skyrocketed to a point where busses were so full they had to leave people waiting at stops for the next bus. I own a car, but when I worked downtown for the last 9 months I took the bus in, it was not slow.. it was almost always on time.. never really had a problem other than finding a seat on the bus. When I go back to school on Monday I will be taking the bus, I live in South London and it takes me about 30 mins by bus to get to Fanshawe only about 5-10 mins more then by car.

And about the subdivisions, pretty much every new one(not only Oakridge or Byron) are made up of loops and lollipops.. Its unfortunate but very true Have you ever looked at the city's Placemaking guidelines? or seen any Placemaking or New Urbanist projects? These type of subdivisions make sense and are popping up all over North America not only does the GTA only allow such subdivisions but they are happening in Waterloo Region as well. I'm not sure if any one here has heard of what the city of Charlotte, NC is doing? they have implemented a connectivity ratio that every new subdivision must meet.. pretty much the subdivision must connect to the rest of the existing city in a Grid street pattern. Not only do they have to meet the connectivity ratio they must also put money into a pot called the Connectivity Fund which has been created to retrofit existing loop and lollipop subdivision! And no Manny- they don’t have to tear down the whole neighborhood they simply reconnect cul-de-sacs and crescents by purchasing properties and creating road and pedestrian connections... pretty interesting stuff!

Again wider roads are not the answer, honestly we are just wasting our tax dollars in widening roads. Statistically speaking Wellington road, being a gateway to the city(from the 401), is probably one of the most travelled roads day to day. I live right off of Wellington and took it into downtown everyday, the road is only at capacity for max. 20 mins in the morning and 20 mins in the late afternoon. Just like every major road that goes near or into the downtown, should we really be widening our roads for that 40 mins a day? why not put that type of money towards more efficient transit? maybe an LRT system? The wider we make our streets the uglier we make our city... the point to wider streets is to carry more traffic and the way engineers see it is that there has to be as little access to this wide "high traffic street" as possible, thus creating rear lotted subdivisions with board on board fences lining our streets is that a great streetscape? is that a street YOU would enjoy walking down?

[worldwide]

hey junior. good to have you here. you know your stuff.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Unfortunately we are at a point in society where automobiles are here to stay.

... probably not. with peak oil rearing its ugly head, and alternative energies that are looking more and more like a bust.

as a society we are going to be much less wasteful with our resources. London's roads are fine. don't like traffic congestion? get a bike.

[tolosulode]

Originally Posted by JrUrbanDesigner

I have one comment to make to those who believe our roads need to be wider... Congestion is our Friend.

That's like saying cancer is our friend in that it will lead to a healthier lifestyle. True, that is one aspect but singular approach solutions to problems are never the correct way to an effective and efficient solution. I hope your teachers at Fanshawe are allowing for some critical thinking and questioning of their ideas and not simply brainwashing you. Did any of them mention that congestion leads to air pollution? Did any of them mention that London's transportation network has held back economic development? Did any of them mention that growth starts with employment opportunities brought forth by an influx of business/industry wanting to locate in a city with actual functioning infrastructure in place? Do you think Toyota located their new plant in Woodstock because Woodstock's transportation network is inefficient like London's? London bid for that plant as well as for the new Honda facility and has lost out. Next in line is Hyundai. Will they choose London? I doubt it. The automobile will not fade away as quickly as you may believe. Wheels have been around since chariots were popular. Cars will only change in regards to how they are powered but their numbers will not diminish.

Narrower, grid pattern roads in subdivision development is not a new idea (look at the Wortley Village area) and this type of development is far superior to what has been used as the norm for the last half century. Narrow arterial and collector routes are another issue. Without a healthy traffic flow pattern, just like a heart, the system will seize up and be inefficient. No major company would want to locate their facilities in a city that has transportation thrombosis.

By the way, did you see London's score on economic prospects relative to peer cities across Canada published yesterday in the London Free Press on Saturday, Jan. 10? The CIBC study rated London 21st out of 24 cities in no small part to poor decision making in the past that have put a stanglehold on economic development. As I had mentioned in an earlier post, decisions made sixty or so years ago about London not setting up an efficient transportation network have come to roost and hence London is not receiving any golden eggs.

[JrUrbanDesigner]

Originally Posted by tolosulode

That's like saying cancer is our friend in that it will lead to a healthier lifestyle. True, that is one aspect but singular approach solutions to problems are never the correct way to an effective and efficient solution. I hope your teachers at Fanshawe are allowing for some critical thinking and questioning of their ideas and not simply brainwashing you. Did any of them mention that congestion leads to air pollution? Did any of them mention that London's transportation network has held back economic development? Did any of them mention that growth starts with employment opportunities brought forth by an influx of business/industry wanting to locate in a city with actual functioning infrastructure in place? Do you think Toyota located their new plant in Woodstock because Woodstock's transportation network is inefficient like London's? London bid for that plant as well as for the new Honda facility and has lost out. Next in line is Hyundai. Will they choose London? I doubt it. The automobile will not fade away as quickly as you may believe. Wheels have been around since chariots were popular. Cars will only change in regards to how they are powered but their numbers will not diminish.

Narrower, grid pattern roads in subdivision development is not a new idea (look at the Wortley Village area) and this type of development is far superior to what has been used as the norm for the last half century. Narrow arterial and collector routes are another issue. Without a healthy traffic flow pattern, just like a heart, the system will seize up and be inefficient. No major company would want to locate their facilities in a city that has transportation thrombosis.

Its funny because you assume that I've been brainwashed by my professors.. however I get informed in many other ways than just school, I've been to many world famous planner/Urban Designer presentations, I've travelled to better planned communities, and I read a lot of books, magazines and a lot from the internet, I don’t believe I'm misinformed but thanks! So basically your telling me that EVERY capitol city in Europe is a complete failure... London England for example has narrower streets and a hell of a lot more congestion then you could handle, and I don’t see their economic development failing. You may say I shouldn’t be comparing our city to a European capitol, then I don’t think you should be comparing London to WOODSTOCK! - are you kidding me? they are a tiny town and the real reason Toyota located in Woodstock is to be closer to their other plant in Cambridge this way they are closer to their existing suppliers...

I'm not sure if you just skimmed through my post but i did mention that our Arterial roads are only EXTREMELY busy for about 40 mins day... 20 in the morning 20 mins in the late afternoon.. what the point of creating these vast roads for just that time? I’m not a business man but I'm pretty sure that not a wise way to spend money...

Of course I’ve heard of Old South and Wortley village, and Old North which all have grid street patterns, these go way back....talking to those who live in those areas they seem to have a better community feeling with their village center, homes closer to the street, garages hidden in the back (or laneway), and their connectivity (there are very few dead ends, making them a more walkable community)

Please don’t assume.
Urban Design is all a conversation- it's my passion, I could talk about all these issues for hours.

On another note-
Has anyone noticed that the Tim Horton's and Elephant Castle are now both officially gone from Galleria- However if Rumors are true... there should be another coffee shop replacing Tim's, who has relocated to a bigger location in the City Center (across the street from Galleria) in the side parking lot off of Dundas. Apparently there will be a New restaurant replacing Elephant Castle probably around the same time as they reveal the new entrance into Galleria- Any thoughts on the Design of that?