Confederation Line West LRT Extension (Stage 2) [Tunney's to Baseline/Moodie] | U/C

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I think CityTech meant the portion of the street that would be within walking distance. Although that would certainly be more accurate, it probably wouldn't be as clear and would look messier.

I agree with CityTech's thought that it would be more accurate but the circle is easier for everybody to understand. I don't think it would matter if some sections of the circle might take 7 minutes to walk to instead of 5 minutes. Everybody's walking pace is going to be different anyways. If we were to place bus routes on the streets, then it just gets too messy. At some point, we reach information overload.

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I agree with CityTech's thought that it would be more accurate but the circle is easier for everybody to understand. I don't think it would matter if some sections of the circle might take 7 minutes to walk to instead of 5 minutes. Everybody's walking pace is going to be different anyways. If we were to place bus routes on the streets, then it just gets too messy. At some point, we reach information overload.

All I know is whenever I've gotten off at a new stop in an unfamiliar city, one of those types of maps is gold.. especially when placed near the exit doors of
the Subway/LRT/Metro/Tube.

Rarely am I looking to connect to a bus... but will just walk to my intended destination. The "5 minute" circle is taken with a grain of salt... but I find it very simple to understand and it's very effective. I think London (UK) even has 10 minute circles... but wherever I've seen one of these maps, I've only ever seen circles.

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

All I know is whenever I've gotten off at a new stop in an unfamiliar city, one of those types of maps is gold.. especially when placed near the exit doors of
the Subway/LRT/Metro/Tube.

Rarely am I looking to connect to a bus... but will just walk to my intended destination. The "5 minute" circle is taken with a grain of salt... but I find it very simple to understand and it's very effective. I think London (UK) even has 10 minute circles... but wherever I've seen one of these maps, I've only ever seen circles.

Yup, I think for general information maps like this circles work best, as no one is going to read them and think that is the exact time it will take them to get there. If you see a 5 minute circle and it actually takes 7 minutes that's no biggie.

The problem with circles arises in things like TOD studies, and showing a "10 minute walk" circle. The level of variance there depending on your walking route can be much larger, such as the TOD study for Tremblay Station that included Trainyards within their "10 minute walk" circle.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

Yup, I think for general information maps like this circles work best, as no one is going to read them and think that is the exact time it will take them to get there. If you see a 5 minute circle and it actually takes 7 minutes that's no biggie.

The problem with circles arises in things like TOD studies, and showing a "10 minute walk" circle. The level of variance there depending on your walking route can be much larger, such as the TOD study for Tremblay Station that included Trainyards within their "10 minute walk" circle.

Exactly, this is when there needs to be more precision.

I remember when the transit optimization project was going on, and they included locations on the opposite side of the Rideau River as within their stupid 800 m criteria indicating that transit service was within walking distance. This was only true if you swam across Mooney's Bay. In my own neighbourhood, they did not consider where there were no street accesses.

The longer the distance being measured, the more problems are introduced. In most cases, it works for a short distance like a 5 minute walk, but they should be careful of major barriers. The Tremblay station example should wedge out south of the VIA station.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

Yup, I think for general information maps like this circles work best, as no one is going to read them and think that is the exact time it will take them to get there. If you see a 5 minute circle and it actually takes 7 minutes that's no biggie.

The problem with circles arises in things like TOD studies, and showing a "10 minute walk" circle. The level of variance there depending on your walking route can be much larger, such as the TOD study for Tremblay Station that included Trainyards within their "10 minute walk" circle.

That is a fair analysis and I agree. The only exception I could see is where there is an obvious barrier to access (like a river with no bridge), the circle should be cut off and follow the obstacle. Sure people will figure out that you can't get there from here, but it just looks bad to say you can. Not sure that applies to any of the current stations though (will pedestrians be able to use the Hurdman Bridge)?

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That is a fair analysis and I agree. The only exception I could see is where there is an obvious barrier to access (like a river with no bridge), the circle should be cut off and follow the obstacle. Sure people will figure out that you can't get there from here, but it just looks bad to say you can. Not sure that applies to any of the current stations though (will pedestrians be able to use the Hurdman Bridge)?

100%. I think the perfect example is what lrt's friend noted above: at Tremblay Station, the circle should cut off at the VIA rail tracks. If the tunnel is ever built under the tracks, then a full circle can be used

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Lakeofthewood

100%. I think the perfect example is what lrt's friend noted above: at Tremblay Station, the circle should cut off at the VIA rail tracks. If the tunnel is ever built under the tracks, then a full circle can be used

Ahh. Good one. I would also say the Vainer Parkway acts as a barrier as well, though there isn't much within the circle there. Once again though, the circle isn't concentric with the station. I'm not even sure what they made it concentric with.

[Ottawa Champ]

$1B from province for Ottawa's LRT phase 2 in question

Joanne Chianello · CBC News · Posted: Feb 07, 2019 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: 5 hours ago

Less than three weeks before city council is set to award its largest single contract ever, Ottawa officials still don't know if the provincial government will ante up its third of the bill for the $3-billion LRT expansion.

The previous Liberal government committed $1.2 billion for Phase 2 of light rail in a letter to Mayor Jim Watson in May 2018 to help pay to extend the O-Train system to Trim Road in the east, Moodie Drive in the west, the Riverside South town centre near Limebank Road in the south, as well as connections to Algonquin College and the airport.


Mayor Jim Watson says he's been told that Premier Doug Ford was on board to fund $1.2-billion of the LRT expansion, but there's been no agreement less than three weeks before council is set to award the contract. (CBC)
Watson said after the council meeting Wednesday that he's "been assured on a number of occasions by local MPPs, and by the Premier himself … that they are fully on board for phase two."
He said he'd be speaking with an official in Premier Doug Ford's office "later this week or early next week. And our desire is to have that information before we go to committee of the whole at the end of February to talk about stage two and award the contract."


During the provincial election, Progressive Conservative leader Doug Ford said he was behind expanding the light rail in Ottawa.

"The PC Party has committed to province-wide funding for transit, which includes completing stage 2 of Ottawa's Light Rapid Transit project," Ford wrote in a letter to Watson during the campaign. (See the letter here.)

After he was elected premier, Ford appeared supportive. Watson said on a number of occasions that Ford was clear the province is going to fund its portion of the next extensions to Ottawa's light rail line.

And last October, shortly after the municipal election, the Ontario Treasury Board wrote in a statement to CBC that "during the campaign, the Premier committed to moving forward with Phase II of the Ottawa LRT. We are reviewing the agreements made between the City of Ottawa and the Government of Ontario to ensure taxpayers' money is spent as efficiently and effectively as possible."

But several months later, the province's review of the LRT Phase 2 funding does not seem to be completed.

In response to further questions from CBC, the Ontario Treasury Board stated again that "all projects approved by the government must represent the best use of public funds to go forward."

Also, the statement pointed out that Ottawa received $37 million in gas tax funding last month to help provide public transit services. The Ministry of Transportation could also not provide any assurances that the $1 billion for the second phase of LRT was headed this way.


It's hard to see how the LRT expansion could be completed on time in 2023 when the awarding of the contract keeps moving, and given that the Confederation Line has been delayed twice so far. (CBC)

Council is set to vote on the winning bid on Feb. 27. The awarding of the contract to expand the LRT has already been delayed twice, once at the request of the bidders and another time due to last fall's election. The project is supposed to begin this summer, and be completed by 2023.

It's hard to see how the expansion can meet its original schedule given that the contract date keeps moving, and that the first phase of LRT is almost a year late at this point. While the Confederation Line is supposed to be handed over to the city on Mar. 31, Rideau Transit Group — the SNC Lavalin-led consortium building the light-rail line — refuses to answer media requests about whether it will meet that date.

Officials from RTG are supposed to come to council's finance committee next Tuesday during an update on the $2.1-billion Confederation Line project.

In the meantime, Ottawa city manager Steve Kanellakos said the city is "confident we're going to be able to award [the contract] this spring" but said that it would not go ahead until it had written assurances first.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...rmed-1.5008971

[Acajack]

That would suck.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That would suck.

Understatement of the year.

My hope is that if the province pulls their funding, the Feds would maintain its support in order to build a modified version (say Place d'Orleans to Algonquin College and Bayview to Airport).

[J.OT13]

No use in cancelling everything. The initial line is next to useless at 12.5 km. Additionally, I believe the City has already signed the contracts for the additional train purchase (both the Citadis Spirits and Stadler FLIRTs) and maintenance for Confederation.

[corynv]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Understatement of the year.

My hope is that if the province pulls their funding, the Feds would maintain its support in order to build a modified version (say Place d'Orleans to Algonquin College and Bayview to Airport).

The line would need to go to moodie, because that's where the planned LMSF will be, they don't have another place to put it.

[J.OT13]

The Moodie extension was never guaranteed. They estimated they had saved enough money on other parts of the project to put towards the Moodie extension and left it to the bidders to figure out if it was possible.

Several options exist if Moodie were to be postponed. The two considered by the City were;

- Revert back to the originally proposed Woodroffe MSF;
- Store trains at Algonquin Station.

Another option would be to build a storage shed at Hurdman along with the already planned extra track for increased service through the central area.

[lrt's friend]

I can see Doug Ford delaying funding then promise it again in the 2022 election. In other words, just keep promising to get the votes while dragging his feet to 2022 and beyond. The money is more importantly invested in tax cuts. The feds will only make their contribution if the province follows suit.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Ahh. Good one. I would also say the Vainer Parkway acts as a barrier as well, though there isn't much within the circle there. Once again though, the circle isn't concentric with the station. I'm not even sure what they made it concentric with.

There should be a walkway from Riverside Drive up to Terminal Avenue but I suppose that is pretty steep.

[Ottawaresident]

Shouldn't be too steep ... Other than the VIA Terminal and a few offices and industrial use buildings, what else is in the area of Tremblay Station?

[CityTech]

Worse comes to worse, the city can finance to Lincoln Fields on its own and that's the most urgent need.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by CityTech

Worse comes to worse, the city can finance to Lincoln Fields on its own and that's the most urgent need.

Agreed. Extending to Baseline without extending to Bayshore or Moodie is problematic as the line would block either the 417 entrance or exit, forcing the buses to/from the west to make detours on city streets. Fine as a construction detour, but not for an extended period.

Hopefully Ford comes through with the money he promised.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Ottawaresident

Shouldn't be too steep ... Other than the VIA Terminal and a few offices and industrial use buildings, what else is in the area of Tremblay Station?

The Riverside Drive underpass is in a pretty big hole. I am pretty sure the slope up to Terminal Avenue is steep.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The Riverside Drive underpass is in a pretty big hole. I am pretty sure the slope up to Terminal Avenue is steep.

Below is a picture of the path from Riverside Dr. to Terminal Ave.

Regardless of how steep it is, it is still a long way around. You are almost at the 5 minute mark when you reach Riverside Dr. I know circles are approximate, but at least have a reasonable route to get there.


Image capture: Jul 2018 © 2019 Google