Circuit of the Americas Development Updates

[turn1]

Originally Posted by hookem

TV announced the race day attendance at 61k. So perhaps they will approach 100k this weekend. Weather, just like f1, ends up being picture perfect.

Yeah, they announced 131K for the weekend. 26K + 44K + 61K.

Those numbers are absurd. Like they just pulled em out of a hat. LOL.

[priller]

A few nice pics from the Statesman:

[turn1]

So, if y'all didn't hear, there was a V8 Supercars / NASCAR driver swap out at COTA today with a V8s (demo car?) & the Furniture Row/Denver Mattress #78 Sprint Cup Car. Drivers were Kurt Busch, James Courtney, Fabian Coulthard, & Chad Reed. We managed to get a few good photos:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=1&theater

Here are a few samples:

[KevinFromTexas]

Dave Cody on Fox7 tonight mentioned "NASCAR looking at Austin." just in reference to Kurt Busch being at the track with his car. I guess it'll only be a matter of time before NASCAR comes to COTA.

[Jdawgboy]

Originally Posted by KevinFromTexas

Dave Cody on Fox7 tonight mentioned "NASCAR looking at Austin." just in reference to Kurt Busch being at the track with his car. I guess it'll only be a matter of time before NASCAR comes to COTA.

Not to make a fuss but I honestly hope we do not see NASCAR at the Circuit of the Americas unless it was Nationwide which is their only road course series. Sadly NASCAR does not put much effort into the Nationwide series and would rather stick to ovals. I prefer the international races anyways this is the new home of international racing. Let Texas Speedway keep NASCAR.

[hookem]

Here's a video of a couple of Red Bull sponsored base jumpers jumping off the tower at COTA. I'm amazed at how quickly they can slow down to land, basically they come down like they stepped off a 6" curb.

• Video Link

[bluedogok]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

Not to make a fuss but I honestly hope we do not see NASCAR at the Circuit of the Americas unless it was Nationwide which is their only road course series. Sadly NASCAR does not put much effort into the Nationwide series and would rather stick to ovals. I prefer the international races anyways this is the new home of international racing. Let Texas Speedway keep NASCAR.

The France family's International Speedway Corp. (the ones who run Nascar) own about a third of the ovals they run the Sprint Cup cars on and one of the road courses (Watkins Glen in New York), the Bruton Smith group Speedway Motorsports, Inc. (Texas Motor Speedway in Fort Worth) owns another third or so and the rest are scattered amongst several other owners. Nascar knows their fan base, most prefer oval track racing and dislike even the two road course races (Sears Point/Infineon in Sonoma, California being the other track). The Nationwide series runs many more road course races including having run on the same tracks F1 has run on in the past at Montreal and Mexico City.

I will watch Nascar until the other series start up and then I barely pay attention to it.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by bluedogok

The France family's International Speedway Corp. (the ones who run Nascar) own about a third of the ovals they run the Sprint Cup cars on and one of the road courses (Watkins Glen in New York), the Bruton Smith group Speedway Motorsports, Inc. (Texas Motor Speedway in Fort Worth) owns another third or so and the rest are scattered amongst several other owners. Nascar knows their fan base, most prefer oval track racing and dislike even the two road course races (Sears Point/Infineon in Sonoma, California being the other track). The Nationwide series runs many more road course races including having run on the same tracks F1 has run on in the past at Montreal and Mexico City.

I will watch Nascar until the other series start up and then I barely pay attention to it.

Statesman: NASCAR ‘not likely’ anytime soon at Austin circuit

http://www.statesman.com/news/sports...circuit/nXcmM/

[turn1]

Damn, I thought I had already posted this, but I guess not. I took a little video of the Supercars/NASCAR swap from Haywood's Hill out by Turn 11. Look how the Supercar closes the big gap under braking with a big lockup. The V8 is quicker in & out of the turn, but the Cup car holds him off with more power down the back straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...v=adDaCODZy_Q#!

[turn1]

COTA not meeting attendance projections. What's the remedy?

https://www.facebook.com/FoF1ATX/posts/635411843140031

[hookem]

Originally Posted by turn1

COTA not meeting attendance projections. What's the remedy?

https://www.facebook.com/FoF1ATX/posts/635411843140031

The remedy is to stop making projections.

Seriously, I have come to realize that these projections are purely and entirely political tools. Put out the fantastic numbers, get the politicians to tout them and obtain what you want (laws passed, tax incentives, etc). It's just like with the ETF and job projections -- they will throw out some number, like 1000 jobs, with entirely no basis in fact or actual business purpose. And how often do they actually meet that number? Likely never. Does anyone ever call them on it? Kinda sorta, sometimes, but if they do it never makes the news because the political discussion has already passed.

Anyway, I don't think the projections are serious at all. Business-wise, there is no way they are actually using them for anything. Their "real" projections are based, just like any similar business, on ticket sales and it's doubtful they will share that info.

It's too bad they aren't a publicly traded company. Because then their projections would actually have to mean something real.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by hookem

The remedy is to stop making projections.

Seriously, I have come to realize that these projections are purely and entirely political tools. Put out the fantastic numbers, get the politicians to tout them and obtain what you want (laws passed, tax incentives, etc). It's just like with the ETF and job projections -- they will throw out some number, like 1000 jobs, with entirely no basis in fact or actual business purpose. And how often do they actually meet that number? Likely never. Does anyone ever call them on it? Kinda sorta, sometimes, but if they do it never makes the news because the political discussion has already passed.

Anyway, I don't think the projections are serious at all. Business-wise, there is no way they are actually using them for anything. Their "real" projections are based, just like any similar business, on ticket sales and it's doubtful they will share that info.

It's too bad they aren't a publicly traded company. Because then their projections would actually have to mean something real.

I agree that the problem is the exaggerated projections. However, the catch in this case is that they're being exaggerated because they do indeed mean something. The ETF payouts are based on the projections from the venue, not results. Sure, those numbers are supposed to be audited within 18 months, but by that time yet another race has already been subsidized by the ETF for tens of millions more dollars. I read somewhere that no venue in the history of the ETFs has been made to pay back any overpayment. COTA hasn't come close to meeting projections on any race yet. Will they give the taxpayers their money back?

[Jdawgboy]

This is my take on it.
Advertising is a huge issue that needs to be fixed. what I find shocking is you have a guy like Red McCombs who owns Clear Channel Communications and has a vast amount of advertising power but yet he seems uninterested in using his resources. The Track is beautiful indeed but like many have said, there are not enough access points to get around the track easily. several things that were in the original plan were wiped off the page which should have been built. COTA needs to be more inclusive with the fans and actually take their advice. This isn't just COTA's problem the hotel industry is at fault for creating unfair price gouging which is only hurting the local economy. why spend a lot of money visiting an area when the majority of you limited funds are swallowed up by hotel stays. Then there's the City of Austin and the citizens that opposed the track from the get go need to get off their high horse, wake up to reality and actually get involved more directly with COTA. The city needs to create events within the city during all major race weekends. there needs to be better road infrastructure getting to and from COTA. Bus service and even rail service would be excellent. The city is already creating the Riverside Rail Corridor that will go from Downtown to the airport. logical thing to do is continue it on the COTA. I could go on but I just don't have the time. Basically common sense if you ask me.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

This is my take on it.
Advertising is a huge issue that needs to be fixed. what I find shocking is you have a guy like Red McCombs who owns Clear Channel Communications and has a vast amount of advertising power but yet he seems uninterested in using his resources. The Track is beautiful indeed but like many have said, there are not enough access points to get around the track easily. several things that were in the original plan were wiped off the page which should have been built. COTA needs to be more inclusive with the fans and actually take their advice. This isn't just COTA's problem the hotel industry is at fault for creating unfair price gouging which is only hurting the local economy. why spend a lot of money visiting an area when the majority of you limited funds are swallowed up by hotel stays. Then there's the City of Austin and the citizens that opposed the track from the get go need to get off their high horse, wake up to reality and actually get involved more directly with COTA. The city needs to create events within the city during all major race weekends. there needs to be better road infrastructure getting to and from COTA. Bus service and even rail service would be excellent. The city is already creating the Riverside Rail Corridor that will go from Downtown to the airport. logical thing to do is continue it on the COTA. I could go on but I just don't have the time. Basically common sense if you ask me.

-Yep. I always thought Clear Channel would end up being a major advertising vehicle for the track. It's mind-boggling that it hasn't.

-There were originally 4 ped bridges in Hellmund's plan. Epstein cut out two of them after cutting out Hellmund. I've had people tell of Turn 16 bridge crossings approaching an hour in length.

-COTA has never been interested in advice from race fans or people inside the industry.

-COTA was a major reason for the inflated hotel prices last year. Now they're trying to distance themselves from it.

-Lots of people have dismounted their high horses & would like to get involved with COTA. They just aren't a welcoming group, even to people who have supported them.

-Re: the city creating events during race weekends...That's not the city's job or an effective use of my tax $$ imho. The city has been more than accommodating to the many groups creating events. COTA, on the other hand, has squashed some of those because they competed with COTA's own downtown events. If Bobby doesn't make money from it, he does everything he can to stomp it out.

-Re: Transportation, you're preaching to the choir. They've been fairly lucky so far, with ideal conditions, etc. That won't last.

[hookem]

Originally Posted by turn1

I agree that the problem is the exaggerated projections. However, the catch in this case is that they're being exaggerated because they do indeed mean something. The ETF payouts are based on the projections from the venue, not results. Sure, those numbers are supposed to be audited within 18 months, but by that time yet another race has already been subsidized by the ETF for tens of millions more dollars. I read somewhere that no venue in the history of the ETFs has been made to pay back any overpayment. COTA hasn't come close to meeting projections on any race yet. Will they give the taxpayers their money back?

Ok, I agree that in terms of the METF the projections mean something. And the more I think about it, the COTA business model is the METF.

I'm sure you've seen the proposed "reigning in" legislation for the METF/ETF that is going through the legislature right now. Does it seem to you like it will have zero effect on COTA? It almost seems to be specifically skipping anything relevant to them. Yes, it gets rid of the ability to give the money prior to the event, but that ship had already sailed for COTA and they changed their business model to deal with getting the money after the event. Other provisions, like the 5% cap and how the money can be spent (not for permanent venue upgrades), don't apply to COTA.

How savvy is COTA on that skirting that permanent upgrade thing, BTW. Could it be that they built the track specifically with that upcoming provision in mind? Most of the grandstands are temporary for F1. They can spend METF money for that. Parking, traffic, shuttles? There is no real infrastructure investment there; it's basically all an incredibly expensive temporary setup. Something the METF money can be used for. Works for F1 when they're spending the bucks on traffic control, shuttles, and tons of parking attendants. But when that stuff isn't around, there basically is no infrastructure for a massive event. F1, MotoGP, V8 Supercars -- big sanctioning fees, unlike your typical pro sports. Again, METF qualifying expenses.

Plus, it seems like they're trying to configure it to basically host any kind of event that the METF would reimburse. It's almost like a purpose-built taxpayer money eating monster. Perhaps that explains the enigmatic tower:



Lucky for them that taxpayers have an incredibly short memory and attention span.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen the X Games attendance projections yet?

[ivanwolf]

So far my experience as a fan and a volunteer have been good. As a fan for F1 the shuttles work much better than I thought they would. The bleachers were just that plain basic bleachers, I'd not pay for that T6 spot again, just go with GA. The pedestirian bridges sucked each day as the crowd got worse. They need to be wider or more of them for sure at least for the F1 race. I did not pay for the ticket as it was my 40th bday gift but with food for just myself and wanting swag the price would have been high.

As a volunteer for the MotoGP I paid nothing but gas and tolls to get to and from. I was provided with breakfast and lunch all three days and one dinner on Saturday. Plus I got free parking and swag (hat, shirt, mug, sunscreen, sticker, patch) I was at T18-19 as a flagger and though it was not the best spot (i choose) i would do it again for the perks and to see all the racing. What sucked is that I stood for so long, my feet hurt.

They ask for input from us and I plan to give my two cents soon now that I have thought it through.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by hookem

Ok, I agree that in terms of the METF the projections mean something. And the more I think about it, the COTA business model is the METF.

I'm sure you've seen the proposed "reigning in" legislation for the METF/ETF that is going through the legislature right now. Does it seem to you like it will have zero effect on COTA? It almost seems to be specifically skipping anything relevant to them. Yes, it gets rid of the ability to give the money prior to the event, but that ship had already sailed for COTA and they changed their business model to deal with getting the money after the event. Other provisions, like the 5% cap and how the money can be spent (not for permanent venue upgrades), don't apply to COTA.

How savvy is COTA on that skirting that permanent upgrade thing, BTW. Could it be that they built the track specifically with that upcoming provision in mind? Most of the grandstands are temporary for F1. They can spend METF money for that. Parking, traffic, shuttles? There is no real infrastructure investment there; it's basically all an incredibly expensive temporary setup. Something the METF money can be used for. Works for F1 when they're spending the bucks on traffic control, shuttles, and tons of parking attendants. But when that stuff isn't around, there basically is no infrastructure for a massive event. F1, MotoGP, V8 Supercars -- big sanctioning fees, unlike your typical pro sports. Again, METF qualifying expenses.

Plus, it seems like they're trying to configure it to basically host any kind of event that the METF would reimburse. It's almost like a purpose-built taxpayer money eating monster. Perhaps that explains the enigmatic tower:



Lucky for them that taxpayers have an incredibly short memory and attention span.

Speaking of which, has anyone seen the X Games attendance projections yet?

Yep. Good post, esp the bold portions.

I think you're basically right that it doesn't hurt them much. Some of these legislators are simply trying to appear tough on spending without actually doing anything. The limits on spending for items at the venue won't hurt COTA at all. They use the METF money to cover the FOM sanctioning fee. They want us to pay for their content.

Items like shortening the time until an audit is required could affect COTA should they actually enforce it. It doesn't appear that they have enforced it on anyone to date, but I could be wrong.

Much of what you said re: infrastructure investment goes back to something I've been thinking and saying about this thing since way back before the USGP...everything they do points to getting what they can with as little investment as possible, then making an early exit selling as high as possible. Epstein is a bond trader. Have you noticed all the mentions in articles of how much the facility supposedly cost them to build? The number goes up almost every time it's mentioned. First it was $250M, then 350, 400, 425, 450, and the other day...$500M, lulz. It wouldn't surprise me at all if that's just salesmanship and it's up for sale as we speak.

I haven't seen the X-Games projection, but if I do, I'll be sure to post it. It should be good for a few laughs. BTW, guys. You can always get up to date on all the COTA news at our Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/FoF1ATX

We post a LOT of info there, so there's no way I can duplicate it on all the motorsport boards I visit.

[Tornado]

If you guys get a chance, go out and watch the V8 Super Cars....they are blast to watch on TV and aren't afraid to rub paint. Being in El Paso, I'm good for about 1 race a year. Does anyone know if there are plans to build a hotel at the site in the near future?

[The ATX]

Originally Posted by Tornado

If you guys get a chance, go out and watch the V8 Super Cars....they are blast to watch on TV and aren't afraid to rub paint. Being in El Paso, I'm good for about 1 race a year. Does anyone know if there are plans to build a hotel at the site in the near future?

There's not enough development surrounding the track yet to support a hotel. But the Austin airport is nearby, and there are hotels in that area.

[turn1]

Originally Posted by Hill Country

There's not enough development surrounding the track yet to support a hotel. But the Austin airport is nearby, and there are hotels in that area.

Yeah, Epstein said recently that over the previous weekend he had just completed talks with three different hotel companies about putting hotels out there. He may have, but it probably got pretty awkward once they found out how many low/no-occupancy days there would be.