Great Canadian Skyline Thread II

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by logan5

With Victoria you have people more spread out to other streets, as there are lots of good historic retail and restaurant streets to choose from. With Calgary everybody is concentrated on 17th Ave (for the most part) so maybe that makes dt Calgary seem busier. The population density of dt Victoria is on par with Calgary and looks to be larger than Halifax.

I'm very familiar with both cities and I don't understand this comment at all. Calgary's core is significantly larger than Victoria's and has retail/restaurant high streets (admittedly of varying quality) on Stephen Avenue, 11th Avenue, 12th Avenue, 17th Avenue, 4th Street, 8th Street, Chinatown, East Village, Eau Claire, and then also Inglewood, Bridgeland and Kensington.

EDIT: Central Victoria is very vibrant (especially for its size) though.

[Pavlov]

Originally Posted by someone123

My impressions are based on visits rather than statistics. I don't find that population density statistics or those downtown worker numbers mean a whole lot. Mostly because the area you include is arbitrary and has a huge impact on the numbers, and because a lot of types of activity don't get counted. For example students, tourists, and locals visiting downtown who live in other neighbourhoods tend to get left out.

Yes, its very difficult to compare. For example, do you include the bustle of downtown malls in your assessment? What about PATH/Underground City/+15 systems? Are we talking only CBDs or some broader central area? What time of day are we measuring? What time of year?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Peggerino

Outside of the beautiful though very touristy CBD isn't the rest of the city relatively sleepy and somewhat conservative? That was the perception I got from living in Montreal and meeting people from Quebec City. Also, purely anecdotal, but I've heard the racism and xenophobia there is much worse than say in Montreal or Ottawa/Gatineau.

I'd be wary of reading too much into Quebec City being "conservative". It's not Montreal but it's not that sleepy a city by Canadian or North American standards.

Areas outside of downtown like St-Roch and Avenue Cartier or even Maguire a bit further out are reasonably lively. It's not the Las Vegas Strip, but it's not sleepy either.

It's arguably livelier and more vibrant across a greater segment of the city than some larger Canadian cities to the west of it.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Pavlov

Yes, its very difficult to compare. For example, do you include the bustle of downtown malls in your assessment? What about PATH/Underground City/+15 systems? Are we talking only CBDs or some broader central area? What time of day are we measuring? What time of year?

Cities also have a different character and appeal to different types of people. Calgary is a very young and business-oriented city. In Victoria, government, tourism, and quasi-resort retiree type living are more important. Halifax is the primate city of a small region, like a scaled down Toronto. Kitchener-Waterloo is a quasi-satellite of the GTA, a relatively small city in a much bigger province.

In the US the cities are even more specialized and tuned to lifestyle choices.

I have said before I think people place too much importance on city size. Another group you could pick is say the provincial capitals that aren't also business hubs. Victoria, Quebec City, and Fredericton. Or the provincial primate + capital ("city state") cities: Winnipeg, Toronto, Halifax, Charlottetown, and St. John's. We also have the commercial hub minus capital cities: Vancouver, Calgary, Saskatoon, Montreal, Moncton (although Montreal's a bit of a special case for historical reasons, with more political and national business institutions than you'd normally expect).

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I am going to nominate QC as the least boring (i.e., most lively) downtown of all cities with metros <2 million.

Ottawa is very close to Quebec City or even arguably slightly ahead of it, depending on who you talk to.

Ottawa is stronger for some things, and Quebec City is stronger for some others.

Overall when you add everything up they're actually pretty comparable.

[Chadillaccc]

Another beautiful day in the foothills...


Autumn in the foothills by Chadillaccc, on Flickr

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ottawa is very close to Quebec City or even arguably slightly ahead of it, depending on who you talk to.

Ottawa is the "forgotten city", yet is the capital of Canada, and now even has a metro. Maybe this is because it's wedged between Toronto and Montreal. I also think that in recent years we have seen a glorification of private industry and decline in the reputation of government as a positive economic force (e.g. people who carry on as if every dollar spent in Ottawa is flushed down the toilet or goes to one of those fabled welfare bums).

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ottawa is very close to Quebec City or even arguably slightly ahead of it, depending on who you talk to.

Ottawa is stronger for some things, and Quebec City is stronger for some others.

Overall when you add everything up they're actually pretty comparable.

as a frequent visitor to both cities, I think QC comes out ahead (esp. when you add St. Roch), but Ottawa has certainly come a very long way from where it was in the 80s-90s.

Maybe it is just because QC city centre is older (and was once much more extensive than that of pretty much any city in Canada save for Montreal, and arguably Toronto, back when they built such grand structures) and more unique.

Vancouver is a lovely city, and in terms of physical setting (including the peerless Stanley Park) it is untouchable, but the liveliness of downtown is not what many might expect.

[J.OT13]

Ottawa's Escarpment District:


https://fotenn.com/project/cathedral-hill/

[J.OT13]

Lansdowne Park:


https://fotenn.com/project/lansdowne-redevelopment/

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Pavlov

I'm very familiar with both cities and I don't understand this comment at all. Calgary's core is significantly larger than Victoria's and has retail/restaurant high streets (admittedly of varying quality) on Stephen Avenue, 11th Avenue, 12th Avenue, 17th Avenue, 4th Street, 8th Street, Chinatown, East Village, Eau Claire, and then also Inglewood, Bridgeland and Kensington.

EDIT: Central Victoria is very vibrant (especially for its size) though.

What I mean is that Victoria has much higher quality streets that draw people out. 11th Ave and 12 Ave are not pedestrian friendly at all.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

as a frequent visitor to both cities, I think QC comes out ahead (esp. when you add St. Roch), but Ottawa has certainly come a very long way from where it was in the 80s-90s.

Maybe it is just because QC city centre is older (and was once much more extensive than that of pretty much any city in Canada save for Montreal, and arguably Toronto, back when they built such grand structures) and more unique.

Vancouver is a lovely city, and in terms of physical setting (including the peerless Stanley Park) it is untouchable, but the liveliness of downtown is not what many might expect.

I will say that Quebec City has been outdoing Ottawa in terms of capital-esque grandeur. Especially when you count the work of higher-order government plus municipal government.

The (locally) much-maligned National Capital Commission actually does relatively good work in Ottawa, but the city itself basically behaves like it was Hamilton or something. (No offence to Hamilton.)

In recent years Quebec City has made tremendous improvements in terms of public realm, signage, statues, fountains, landscaping, furniture, etc. all over the inner part of the city (and not just the old town).

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by someone123

Cities also have a different character and appeal to different types of people. Calgary is a very young and business-oriented city. In Victoria, government, tourism, and quasi-resort retiree type living are more important. Halifax is the primate city of a small region, like a scaled down Toronto. Kitchener-Waterloo is a quasi-satellite of the GTA, a relatively small city in a much bigger province.

In the US the cities are even more specialized and tuned to lifestyle choices.

I have said before I think people place too much importance on city size. Another group you could pick is say the provincial capitals that aren't also business hubs. Victoria, Quebec City, and Fredericton. Or the provincial primate + capital ("city state") cities: Winnipeg, Toronto, Halifax, Charlottetown, and St. John's. We also have the commercial hub minus capital cities: Vancouver, Calgary, Saskatoon, Montreal, Moncton (although Montreal's a bit of a special case for historical reasons, with more political and national business institutions than you'd normally expect).

Indeed. There are more quebec governement office employees in Montreal (40,000) than in the capital Quebec city (37,000).

https://www.lesoleil.com/affaires/ville-...-quebec-b1ec6a23052efad989baf884f2c90c55

[Martin Mtl]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

I think the analogy used to be Scarlet Johansson and Elizabeth Taylor. Young Beauty vs. Classic Substance. But now that Montreal is being infected with the blue glass condo craze as badly or worse than we have, don't think that holds up anymore.

I’m a bit late to respond to that post, but I think i have to. Montreal is a big city. In the Canadian context, it’s even huge. Its soul and caracter and charm goes well beyond its downtown core. In fact, you will find it more in its iconic historic neighborhood like le Plateau, St-Henri, Villeray, Rosemont, Outremont, Verdun, Mile End, Mile-Ex, Old Montreal, Pointe Sainte-Charles, NDG, Westmount, etc. In all of these places, there is no condo towers permitted, glass or otherwise. Some of these hoods are actually fully build.

Condo glass towers are only permitted and build in the downtown core (including Griffintown) and Nun’s Island, which represent a small portion of the city. And they are concentrated in small areas where they replace surface parking lots, not historic buildings. And even then, I wouldn’t use the term infected to describe these handfull of glass towers. Even on Sainte-Catherine, our main street, zoning prohibit condo towers.

One should not equal the downtown skyline which is changing slowly with the whole city. Montreal’s caracter is not about to be compromised by a few glass towers. In fact, one could spend weeks viditing the city without ever crossing the path of a condo tower. It’s very different than Toronto or Vancouver, not better, but very different.

[scryer]

-delete-

[craner]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Lansdowne Park:


https://fotenn.com/project/lansdowne-redevelopment/

Love this one !
Is north to the right in this photo ?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by craner

Love this one !
Is north to the right in this photo ?

Yes, more or less.

At least, the stand to the right is considered the north stand and is in the direction of downtown.

[PortaPetee]

I only spent time in Ottawa once and liked it. Lively, fun. I confess I was surprised.

QC also lively and fun, of course. Montreal of course.

I was in Vancouver for weeks at a time three times in the 2000s and found it very lively. I don't know about any club scene, I wasn't doing that but the streets wwre always busy at night with lots of revellers. Has that changed? Did I just luck out?

Winnipeg seemed potentially interesting but I was only there a day and wasn't out at night.

I've never been to St. John's NL - I'd be interested to see if its nightlife lives up to the hype.

[Razor]

Great shot of Lansdowne Park ^

Originally Posted by lio45

One could go even further and argue that the inner city Montreal/Brooklyn built form of continuous/attached 3-4 story tenements is actually more "urban" than most towers-in-parks regardless of their height.

In fact, I'd say true urbanity comes from a bunch of factors; the densest cities have lots of very tall buildings, sure, but height by itself isn't the be-all end-all.

Totally agree.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Condo glass towers are only permitted and build in the downtown core (including Griffintown) and Nun’s Island, which represent a small portion of the city. And they are concentrated in small areas where they replace surface parking lots, not historic buildings. And even then, I wouldn’t use the term infected to describe these handfull of glass towers. Even on Sainte-Catherine, our main street, zoning prohibit condo towers.

And that's a huge factor in what makes Montreal great. It preserves the city's character.

I'm quite tired of seeing bland condo and apartment buildings going up everywhere on Ottawa's main streets, with proximity to transit as a justification for demolishing established retail street fronts and handsome buildings built in the early to mid 20th Century. Many of these vibrant neighborhoods in Montreal are a stone's throw from the Metro yet are still intact. Even in Toronto, they've done a good job in preserving some of those areas along the Bloor Line.

In Ottawa, the Confederation Line is a few blocks north of our main streets (Wellington West and Richmond, 300 to 500 meters from the line and stations spaced every kilometer on average) along former industrial sites and parking lots. We can, and we are, building towers on that corridor. I don't understand why we can't protect the pleasant retail main streets that we have and limit new development to match what's currently there (3-6 floors).

Now obviously, Ottawa's main streets don't compare to the spectacular architecture and vibrancy of Montreal, but we have what we have, and it's worth protecting.