Edmonton Public Transit - Page 73

rapid_business · #**1441** Posted **Jan 27, 2008, 10:29 PM**

/\ I disagree. In the right environment (think of living in a single-family home in the Annex in Toronto, or even off Danforth) anything is possible. Add to that gas jumping to...let us say $2 a liter... I'm sure we'd hear cries for more options.

IKAN104 · #**1442** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 12:46 AM**

If gas jumped to $2 per litre, transit costs would go up too. And transit can never be as convenient as a car. Simply impossible.

rapid_business · #**1443** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 1:17 AM**

Sure. I'm just saying given the right physical environment and circumstances, you'd be surprised how many people will be willing to let go of their car.

Coldrsx · #**1444** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 2:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by onishenko

Sure. I'm just saying given the right physical environment and circumstances, you'd be surprised how many people will be willing to let go of their car.

most people i know "say they would" but many can right now and dont.

MalcolmTucker · #**1445** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 3:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

most people i know "say they would" but many can right now and dont.

Which is exactly Portland's problem. I don't think Edmonton will have as much of a problem at building more ridership as the system grows, for some reason Canadians are more willing to use mass transit than americans. Hopefully when the SLRT expansion is fully open Edmonton's one line will more than challenge Portland in terms of ridership.

We are however rich enough in Alberta that while LRT may replace the primary trip of the day, it will likely not replace the secondary trips of nearly as many people, especially with the way our cities are designed.

What I like is everyone trumpets Portland, when the numbers show it to be ineffective, but the city is beautiful.

Everyone attacks Calgary for being car oriented, but Calgary is less than half the size of Portland Metro (2.337 million), and has more than twice the LRT ridership. Trimet, which includes buses only gets 300 k weekday boardings!

Portland is great with its image of sustainability and being a transit oriented city but the image doesn't seem to come close to reality.

Image is everything I guess!

leendert · #**1446** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 4:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by IKAN104

If gas jumped to $2 per litre, transit costs would go up too. And transit can never be as convenient as a car. Simply impossible.

Maybe not as convenient in Edmonton. I'd say in Paris or NYC transit is more convenient than a car. Edmonton's density and policies generally cater to a car based culture, but it does not have to be that way. The cost of energy for propulsion in public transportation is, relatively, a smaller fraction of the total cost of operation.

SHOFEAR · #**1447** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 4:57 AM**

Quote:

while LRT may replace the primary trip of the day, it will likely not replace the secondary trips of nearly as many people, especially with the way our cities are designed.

I think that is a very fair comment.

TimB09 · #**1448** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 5:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by onishenko

Sure. I'm just saying given the right physical environment and circumstances, you'd be surprised how many people will be willing to let go of their car.

I'd keep my car for longer trips but if the LRT went more places in Edmonton, my car would sit each and everyday I went to work. Where I work however, no LRT and very poor bus schedules. I don't want to wake up at 6am to be on a bus for an hour and a half to get to work.

rapid_business · #**1449** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 5:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

most people i know "say they would" but many can right now and dont.

OK, but Edmonton is not designed for this in any regard. Infrequent LRT service on a linear line. Density is in pockets, and even if you live near one of these pockets you've already established a habit to drive halfway across the city for needs and wants. No options for an effective carshare program (zipcar, etc.) that could 'ease the pain' and provide options if you really need a car. Etc....

Coldrsx · #**1450** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 4:41 PM**

^not even so much that...many many Edmontonians are "good ol boys" who wouldnt even think about it.

newfangled · #**1451** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 4:55 PM**

So this morning - as with every morning where it's fairly chilly - I face the choice of walking to work, or taking the bus. And since I hate the bus, and since -32 really isn't that cold, I figured I would walk.

I made it from 123st to 108st before I saw a single eastbound bus (although I did see many busstops packed with people waiting in the cold). This isn't ETS' fault, but buses are so lame.

IKAN104 · #**1452** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 5:06 PM**

^ Agreed.

After taking the car to work every day for the last 11 years I finally broke down and bought a commuter car. I got so sick and tired of spending 3 hours a day on the bus and almost as bad as that was not being able to manage my own travel schedule.

Having said that, if I was a 5 or 10 minute drive from the LRT station (with park & ride) and the train could take me to within walking distance of my office I would still take the LRT.

noodlenoodle · #**1453** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 5:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by newfangled

So this morning - as with every morning where it's fairly chilly - I face the choice of walking to work, or taking the bus. And since I hate the bus, and since -32 really isn't that cold, I figured I would walk.

I made it from 123st to 108st before I saw a single eastbound bus (although I did see many busstops packed with people waiting in the cold). This isn't ETS' fault, but buses are so lame.

The only people who managed to make it into my department on time today either left an hour early or are walkers like myself. Evidently there were problems with ETS busses climbing out of the valley that caused lengthy delays for anyone crossing over from the southside.

Coldrsx · #**1454** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 5:13 PM**

^yup...friends relayed stories of cars and buses at the bottom of bellamy "making runs at it"...most unsuccessfully.

newfangled · #**1455** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 5:29 PM**

To be fair though, I'm talking buses coming from the west end and running along Jasper. There aren't a lot of hills along there.

But even on good days, the peak bus service along Jasper is screwy. There probably should be buses ever 3-5 minutes, but buses bottleneck themselves, so you end up with bus-bus-bus-bus and then 15 minutes of nothing.

Can't wait for my walk home, though. There are rare occasions where I can keep up with a bus all the way down Jasper. My record is from 103st to 121st, but maybe today I'll beat it! (and yeah, walking can be really boring

)

noodlenoodle · #**1456** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 5:43 PM**

My general rule of thumb is if I've missed a bus with "15 minute" frequency, I'll make it to EPCOR Centre walking within a minute of the following bus. I concur with the notion that peak bus service is always screwy on Jasper. I've been able to see all the way from 124 ST to 108 ST devoid of busses on the eastbound side for 20 minutes as busses continually stream westward on a near-weekly basis. Hence my constant walking.

How do the trolleys fare in this sort of weather?

Hardhatdan · #**1457** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 5:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

My general rule of thumb is if I've missed a bus with "15 minute" frequency, I'll make it to EPCOR Centre walking within a minute of the following bus. I concur with the notion that peak bus service is always screwy on Jasper. I've been able to see all the way from 124 ST to 108 ST devoid of busses on the eastbound side for 20 minutes as busses continually stream westward on a near-weekly basis. Hence my constant walking.

How do the trolleys fare in this sort of weather?

I don't know if the weather makes a difference. Electrically speaking it shouldn't really. But if the trolleys are sliding, than becoming detached from the overhead lines would be a greater issues.
Cold may also impact on switching, but I can't say for sure.

newfangled · #**1458** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 5:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

How do the trolleys fare in this sort of weather?

I meant to mention this a few weeks ago, but I've seen three trolleys on Jasper with broken poles this year. And I don't just mean they've detached from the wires - I mean the poles have actually snapped in the middle. Not sure if it's something to do with the advanced age of our trolley fleet? I don't remember ever seeing that before though.

Hardhatdan · #**1459** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 6:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by newfangled

I meant to mention this a few weeks ago, but I've seen three trolleys on Jasper with broken poles this year. And I don't just mean they've detached from the wires - I mean the poles have actually snapped in the middle. Not sure if it's something to do with the advanced age of our trolley fleet? I don't remember ever seeing that before though.

I've seen a trolley pull down a section of line this year...tore down the whole intersection crossing. That was new.
I'm pretty sure most of their problems can be attributed to deferred maintenance/neglect of the system.

TimB09 · #**1460** Posted **Jan 28, 2008, 11:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hardhatdan

I've seen a trolley pull down a section of line this year...tore down the whole intersection crossing. That was new.
I'm pretty sure most of their problems can be attributed to deferred maintenance/neglect of the system.

I think it may be time to get rid of the trolley system. If they aren't willing to maintain them and it costs the city a fair amount in electrical bills from what I understand, scrap them and go to normal buses.

I know there has been talk about this in the past but do it already. Either maintain what you have or get rid of it all together.