CHICAGO | Lincoln Yards

[twister244]

I will make the argument again - There's too many mega projects floating around....... If we had just one, we could start to streamline some resources for infrastructure, especially if there was a strong appetite for it.

This is why I think the 1901 project has the path of least resistance given so much infrastructure is already in place, there's no need to build a new sports facility, etc.

With LY, SB was hedging on it having a major office component. The decimation of the office market in downtown has really hit SB hard, and they are in no position to take on any sizeable projects right now. I just saw an article from Crains hit my feed stating the downtown office vacancy rate continues to rise to a new record high - So no amount of sand pounding from CEOs is gonna change the fact that companies are going to have to adjust to a new reality of hybrid/remote work.

With all of that said - I think it's safe to say the only pathway forward for LY is parcels to get splintered off to developers and hopefully we can get some dense residential development along the river, with some modest infrastructure improvements.

Unless some wild card changes this, the LY proposal we know of is essential dead now.

[r18tdi]

Meanwhile, SB has been trying to get approvals for dense residential projects adjacent to Lincoln Yards like 1840 N. Marcey and 2033 N. Kingsbury.
Seemed odd to me considering how stalled out the rest of LY is...

[twister244]

Originally Posted by r18tdi

Meanwhile, SB has been trying to get approvals for dense residential projects adjacent to Lincoln Yards like 1840 N. Marcey and 2033 N. Kingsbury.
Seemed odd to me considering how stalled out the rest of LY is...

Getting approvals is one thing - Getting actual shovels in the ground is another....

If SB had the resources to get massive residential projects out of the ground in LY to generate a return on investment - We wouldn't be having this conversation.

And like I said, there's going to be a lot of infrastructure that needs to be put into this area to support the kind of development originally proposed..... With 1901 - The bar is much lower, and there's a ton already in place. If you are a developer looking at a mega development to invest into - Why do LY when you can go to 1901 and start there?

[r18tdi]

Originally Posted by twister244

If you are a developer looking at a mega development to invest into - Why do LY when you can go to 1901 and start there?

It will also be interesting what happens with the rest of the so-called River District megadevelopment. Once the "anchor" (the casino complex) is in place, will we see any action on the adjacent parcels any time soon?

[clark wellington]

Originally Posted by ardecila

The key problem is that the site has no infrastructure - building it out to downtown densities would require a lot of costly infrastructure and nobody is willing or able to pay for that stuff.

Why is infrastructure for density substantially different than for lower density? At least things like sidewalks and streets I assume are the same. Is it like sewer capacity? Or am I missing something obvious?

[left of center]

Higher densities would require higher capacity roads as well as transit considerations like new CTA stations or BRT. Things like larger sewer capacity, underground electric utilities, etc. also play a role in the added costs. The 78 really has none of those things, short of the new stretch of Wells, which might even need to be completely demolished to make room for a Sox or Bears stadium should one of those teams decide to move there.

[lakeshoredrive]

Originally Posted by Garynewman

They really spent 4-5 years developing... a single road. And it's still not open to the public. It's funny but sad to think about at the same time

Ridiculous. The system needs to be reformed.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Garynewman

I remember back in the mid-late 2010s when all these megaprojects was coming into fruition we all thought the city was transforming before our eyes. Not a single one has been completed.

The 78 in particular is a travesty. In any other city, that massive amount of valuable land right next to downtown AND RIVER FRONT? It would have BEEN developed. Lincoln Yards is right next to many safe wealthy neighborhoods yet still couldn't get off the ground. Too much office space?

I wish they atleast started on the infrastructure projects first rather than building that now empty life science development

I wouldn't say that relying on office space was the downfall here, but SB, as it sounds now - Is in no position to take on a project like this. More than anything, it's like a compound factor on top of all of the other issues being discussed here. It's why I have even less faith in this project until we know of someone with credibility to come in and help get something off the ground.

But yes, obviously there's an entire discussion on the snails pace on getting the necessary pieces in place to get these projects off the ground.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by Garynewman

This site should have started development in the late 2010s. Why do things take so long to get started here. Now with an idiot as president destroying the economy and an idiot as mayor doing his best to sway away development and investment to the city, this land will probably be barren for the next decade. Sad.

This is really overdramatic. Hardly the first time in Chicago history that a plan had trouble getting its footing.

However, the delays have often worked out for the better.

The 1950s Riverfront plan is a classic example. It only took in the ballpark of 60 years to complete through many recessions and stalled projects. Many laments of failure at the time as well.

But would anybody prefer the 1960s office park we could have had, instead of what actually developed over time.

This rendering illustrates the northern terminus of the proposed Government Center. Federal funds for the project were to have financed redevelopment that would "reclaim, beautify, and make usable for the people the river front within the Central Commercial District." None of the government buildings in this illustration were ever built

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by Garynewman

This site should have started development in the late 2010s. Why do things take so long to get started here. Now with an idiot as president destroying the economy and an idiot as mayor doing his best to sway away development and investment to the city, this land will probably be barren for the next decade. Sad.

Money.

[Jstange059]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

This is really overdramatic

That’s what this forum is best at! Acting like the world is going to end when any setback occurs.

For what it’s worth, it’s not just here. I also actively follow a forum in the Netherlands, where they act so dramatically over any setbacks, and complain about designs not being good enough when they feel quite a bit nicer than most buildings being proposed here.

Anyways, yes. Lincoln yards may be having quite a major setback, and we may not have too many cranes in the air, but the city will be fine. Let’s not forget about stuff like how quickly neighborhoods like Bronzeville and Woodlawn are being filled with infill. The economy is rough right now, but progress is still being made

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by galleyfox

This is really overdramatic. Hardly the first time in Chicago history that a plan had trouble getting its footing.

However, the delays have often worked out for the better.

The 1950s Riverfront plan is a classic example. It only took in the ballpark of 60 years to complete through many recessions and stalled projects. Many laments of failure at the time as well.

But would anybody prefer the 1960s office park we could have had, instead of what actually developed over time.

[IMG
rtic.edu/ryerson/images/Rsrc_001587.jpg[/IMG]

Fascinating. Do you have a link to this?

Never knew this was a proposal. A lot of it looks like modernist trash, but a fair amount would have likely been rebuilt in the 90s to now anyway.

If this Fed center near the river had been built, would that mean that the pre-Mies Old Federal Building would have been potentially saved?

[dreamy-developer]

Well said, 100% agree

Originally Posted by Jstange059

That’s what this forum is best at! Acting like the world is going to end when any setback occurs.

For what it’s worth, it’s not just here. I also actively follow a forum in the Netherlands, where they act so dramatically over any setbacks, and complain about designs not being good enough when they feel quite a bit nicer than most buildings being proposed here.

Anyways, yes. Lincoln yards may be having quite a major setback, and we may not have too many cranes in the air, but the city will be fine. Let’s not forget about stuff like how quickly neighborhoods like Bronzeville and Woodlawn are being filled with infill. The economy is rough right now, but progress is still being made

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

Fascinating. Do you have a link to this?

Never knew this was a proposal. A lot of it looks like modernist trash, but a fair amount would have likely been rebuilt in the 90s to now anyway.

If this Fed center near the river had been built, would that mean that the pre-Mies Old Federal Building would have been potentially saved?

The Old Federal Building would not have been worth the tradeoff. The Fort Dearborn project of 1954 would have demolished most of River North between the Wrigley Building and Merchandise Mart. The damage would have been too much to rebuild into the river canyon we have today.



Also the entire South Lakeshore from Museum Campus to Hyde Park was planned to be like Prairie Shores.

Link to the 1958 Development Plan of the Central Area
https://abstractdecors.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/1958-development-plan.pdf

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by clark wellington

Why is infrastructure for density substantially different than for lower density? At least things like sidewalks and streets I assume are the same. Is it like sewer capacity? Or am I missing something obvious?

The roads around Lincoln Yards are already clogged for big parts of the day, Elston/Ashland/Armitage is confusing and dangerous. Then you want to come in and add thousands of new housing units and millions of SF in office space? Those residents and workers have to get around somehow, so you've gotta either expand the roads or build transit. Neither is cheap. Lincoln Yards is also along the river - part of why the traffic is already bad - so fixing the transportation issue means more costly bridges.

The 78 has similar issues. Metra is a wall on the east side, the river (and railyards) are a wall on the west. Building more ways in/out means costly infrastructure and bridges/underpasses.

Even a basic street grid on flat land is difficult to finance. The city has very high construction standards for new streets compared to the suburbs, the developer (and residents) have to pay for that. You can do private streets built to a lower standard, but then your residents get zero services from the city in terms of snowplow, tree maintenance, etc and have to pay high HOA fees on top of their taxes. No free lunch.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by ardecila

The roads around Lincoln Yards are already clogged for big parts of the day, Elston/Ashland/Armitage is confusing and dangerous. Then you want to come in and add thousands of new housing units and millions of SF in office space? Those residents and workers have to get around somehow, so you've gotta either expand the roads or build transit. Neither is cheap. Lincoln Yards is also along the river - part of why the traffic is already bad - so fixing the transportation issue means more costly bridges.

The 78 has similar issues. Metra is a wall on the east side, the river (and railyards) are a wall on the west. Building more ways in/out means costly infrastructure and bridges/underpasses.

Even a basic street grid on flat land is difficult to finance. The city has very high construction standards for new streets compared to the suburbs, the developer (and residents) have to pay for that. You can do private streets built to a lower standard, but then your residents get zero services from the city in terms of snowplow, tree maintenance, etc and have to pay high HOA fees on top of their taxes. No free lunch.

Which goes right back to what I said before - If you are a developer looking to plant new buildings into a large project - 1901 is MUCH more appealing than LY. You have all of the infrastructure in place - CTA Green/Pink, Metra, and the highway nearby, along with a grid of streets. Oh, and there's no need to pour a billion dollars into a new stadium because the United Center already exists.

I think eventually LY will be developed, but it's gonna take time, or a major catalyst in the future to accelerate things.

[dreamy-developer]

I think this is what I see happening more overtime that would revive or encourage any level of development that the vision SB had with LY.

I think SB's 1840 N Marcey other development they're trying to push through with is an idea I see making that area more appealing.

Start small, with gradual additions that add more to the surrounding area and go from there.

I think eventually LY will be developed, but it's gonna take time, or a major catalyst in the future to accelerate things.

[munchymunch]

Many people don't understand the length of time these master-planned communities typically take, and that many are still ongoing. Lakeshore East, North Union, and Riverline are all ongoing, but those developers are taking tiny bites at a time and don't require as much environmental/infrastructure investment.

[Randomguy34]

JDL is looking to buy the northern half for $84 million. Ald. Waguespack seems to be on board

New buyer emerges for Lincoln Yards site after lender takeover from Sterling Bay

Chicago-based residential developer JDL Development is exclusively negotiating with Bank OZK, which took hold of the property from Sterling Bay in March to satisfy the developer's outstanding loan, to purchase the site, according to sources familiar with the talks.
....
Local Ald. Scott Waguespack, 32nd, said he’s had a preliminary conversation with Letchinger and believes the developer understands “the market won’t bear what Sterling Bay was trying to do.”

It may take considerable time for JDL to negotiate a new agreement with City Hall over what infrastructure costs the developer must take on, Waguespack said, but he’s “hoping not to delay it for two or three more years by going back through a whole new process.”

Waguespack is amenable to having the city use existing TIF dollars to pay for limited infrastructure improvements in the area to “help facilitate construction and development," he said.

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/commerci...jdl-talks-buy-portion-lincoln-yards-site

[twister244]

Well - I take this as good news, if it goes through. JDL obviously has a good track record, and can look at this from a long-term perspective. Nothing worth getting super excited about since it sounds like they want to take the slow approach here.