Chief William Commanda Bridge (former Prince of Wales Bridge)

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by skyscraperaccount

Snowblower? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzQuzRqd9fM

Also, while we are at it...no reason NCC couldn't be clearing the MUP with these (the ski trails can be made along side the path, plenty of room for that)

With regards to a recreational path, I would rather be walking on packed snow than a "cleared" path susceptible to icing up.

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Use a snowblower. The lack of imagination is irritating.

So now somebody at the city has to organize for a snowblower to have access to the river trail system (via Bayview, because the snowblower can't ride on the groomed ski trail). Do we currently own such sidewalk snowblowers? (is that how the Alexandria bridge is cleared?) And if the bridge fully ices over with 2" of clear ice, what then? We surely can't salt the living sh*t out of a 150 year old cast iron bridge the way we salt all of our other trillions of dollars of salt-sensitive infrastructure and natural waterways?

I'm just being a sarcastic devil's advocate here, because I just know they've had these conversations with City works and gotten scoffed at. In the 1980's we would have just left the bridge open and forgotten about it.

Knowing the City, the solution which would keep the bridge open involves a permanently stationed, fully pensioned employee, sitting at a brand new snow plow shed at Lemieux Island, and a paved snow plow pathway with a new key-fob operated gate, down the embankment to the snow plow shed. The snow plow system is custom to the bridge with rubber blades, and the operator has an open-water safety certificate with a 2nd full time, fully pensioned employee as a stand-by safety operator in case of a mis-hap with the plow. Multiply this system by two, so that there's a back-up plow, and at least a 2nd shift in case it snows at night. What an easy, and inexpensive solution.

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

With regards to a recreational path, I would rather be walking on packed snow than a "cleared" path susceptible to icing up.

I guess the issue is that packed snow adds one inch to the base or something, so the railings are no longer high enough for the city lawyers

[lrt's friend]

The city does not maintain certain pathways in my neighbourhood. The public packs down snow on those pathways during winter. For most, this is fine, but it is an uneven surface often coated with ice, which increases the possibility of falls. It is certainly unsafe for anybody with even slight mobility issues. This will be even a bigger problem on this bridge where an unmaintained walkway will more easily be coated with ice from open water below. Remember the story of Confed Line problems crossing an open Rideau River last winter.

Regarding comments that we should be more responsive to weather conditions and keep the bridge open until bad weather arrives. Why does this need to be done in November? It is done based on normal weather conditions (snow often arrives in November in Ottawa), and the limited availability of staff to do the work. I work in a seasonal based job, and much of our winter preparations are done weeks in advance. There is only so many workers and much of the work needs to be done before the weather drops below freezing on a regular basis. It is much more comfortable to do winter preparations while temperatures are still above freezing and the work can be done more quickly when it is still comfortable outside. In any event, if we wait for that looming blizzard, those same staff are likely preparing for snow clearing operations. I think we need to be more realistic about our expectations.

Regarding priorities, I don't understand these comments. How does reallocating resources really help? What other services are we going to eliminate to fund clearing this bridge? Why is this bridge a priority, when it is mostly recreational or serves cycle commuters which mostly dry up during winter?

[Psychedelic Sailor]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The city does not maintain certain pathways in my neighbourhood. The public packs down snow on those pathways during winter. For most, this is fine, but it is an uneven surface often coated with ice, which increases the possibility of falls. It is certainly unsafe for anybody with even slight mobility issues. This will be even a bigger problem on this bridge where an unmaintained walkway will more easily be coated with ice from open water below. Remember the story of Confed Line problems crossing an open Rideau River last winter.

Regarding comments that we should be more responsive to weather conditions and keep the bridge open until bad weather arrives. Why does this need to be done in November? It is done based on normal weather conditions (snow often arrives in November in Ottawa), and the limited availability of staff to do the work. I work in a seasonal based job, and much of our winter preparations are done weeks in advance. There is only so many workers and much of the work needs to be done before the weather drops below freezing on a regular basis. It is much more comfortable to do winter preparations while temperatures are still above freezing and the work can be done more quickly when it is still comfortable outside. In any event, if we wait for that looming blizzard, those same staff are likely preparing for snow clearing operations. I think we need to be more realistic about our expectations.

Regarding priorities, I don't understand these comments. How does reallocating resources really help? What other services are we going to eliminate to fund clearing this bridge? Why is this bridge a priority, when it is mostly recreational or serves cycle commuters which mostly dry up during winter?

I use this bridge everyday for commuting. I (and others) will continue hoping the fence until it is impassable. I think it's a ridiculous decision to close one of the very few bridges between Ottawa and Gatineau. I heard that realigning Greenbank road will cost around 100$ million, what services will Ottawa eliminate to fund that?

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

Use a snowblower. The lack of imagination is irritating.

I'd be willing to bet that snowblowing on a bridge is a non-starter for environmental reasons. Keeping a path clear for winter use would likely involve salting it as well. And that salt is probably not permitted to be blown or plowed directly into the river.

[VANRIDERFAN]

^^
You think that when they plow bridges that the salt magically stays on the bridge?

[OTownandDown]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

^^
You think that when they plow bridges that the salt magically stays on the bridge?

No, but Cars > Pedestrians.

I say we just increase the height of the guard rails by another four feet or so, and then let people cross in all weather conditions. Put a sign up 'bridge not maintained in winter' and call it a day.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Railings would no longer be a minimum height off of the actual ground level.

During the blizzard?

Are we sure of that, or are we inventing yet another bit of hypothetical bullshit to use as an excuse for inaction and not spending money, because it sure seems like the latter when no other bridge closes for blizzards,

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I suspect it was not designed to be cleared in the winter (i.e. there is insufficient protection of the iron from salt). I think the only option is whether staff close it at an arbitrary date in November, or wait until actual winter conditions appear. I don't think suburbanites are blocking the latter.

Why does there have to be salt?

[Uhuniau]

The barriers have been withdrawn to the sides of the bridge now on both ends. Freedom?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

The barriers have been withdrawn to the sides of the bridge now on both ends. Freedom"

Just in time for the first real snow storm.

[lrt's friend]

Bring on the snow plows. Obviously this is a priority, when I discovered this evening that there is 3 feet of snow on our local sidewalks.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Bring on the snow plows. Obviously this is a priority, when I discovered this evening that there is 3 feet of snow on our local sidewalks.

Must be the city's disdain for the south end at it again. When I visited my parents in Kanata Saturday morning to help dig them out, I found their suburban residential sidewalks to be perfectly plowed. They said the plow had already been by twice by then.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Bring on the snow plows. Obviously this is a priority, when I discovered this evening that there is 3 feet of snow on our local sidewalks.

On the bridge spans themselves, there is nothing to plow. They put the "swept" into "windswept". There are small snowdrifts in the wind shadow of the bridge girders, and that's it.

It might be because the two snow events this week had wicked E/NE winds to go along with it, and a steady but calm snowfall might result in accumulation, but so far I'm seeing no snow-related reason to close the bridge.

[VANRIDERFAN]

On my ski yesterday I noticed that the gates on the south side of the bridge were still moved to the side and that a couple of people were running/walking along the span.

Does that mean the city has given up on enforcing the closure?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

On my ski yesterday I noticed that the gates on the south side of the bridge were still moved to the side and that a couple of people were running/walking along the span.

Does that mean the city has given up on enforcing the closure?

Both ends are wide open since about Wednesday of last week, and really, they shouldn't have been closed to begin with.

Instead, we should have been doing all along what seems to be happening now: an inadvertent social experiment. We can see what the human and environmental conditions are on this bridge in winter.

[DTcrawler]

The city lawyers must be sh*tting their pants worrying that the 30cm of (now packed down) snow we got is going to lead to hoards of people tumbling over the bridge railing. How will people ever survive in an environment that's not fully sanitized for public use?!

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

The city lawyers must be sh*tting their pants worrying that the 30cm of (now packed down) snow we got is going to lead to hoards of people tumbling over the bridge railing. How will people ever survive in an environment that's not fully sanitized for public use?!

The snow isn't getting packed down on the bridge. It's getting blown back out onto the river.

[Uhuniau]

I see the barriers are locked back into place, not that they are stopping anyone determined enough.

There is still effectively no snow accumulation on the bridge deck.