Canucks Central

[WarrenC12]

^^^^^ There are very few police there and thousands of potential rioters.

I'm not sure if people had been publicly told to disperse yet, but after that, I'd like to see them flood the streets with tear gas. That gets people thinking about only one thing, and it isn't rioting.

However, innocents get caught up, blah blah blah.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Your over the top hyperbole doesn't help anyone. Move on.

While I agree with your point, its interesting to hear that the VFD responded to 357 incidents that night. That's a hell of a lot. Fortunately an older unsprinklered building was never hit. As Overground and I have mentioned, there were violent incidents all over the city (unreported for some reason). It could have been much uglier if firebugs had their way.

[Overground]

Another blog that is identifying rioters. There's some humorous writing to go along with photos.

http://publicshamingeternus.wordpress.com/

From that blog we have one classy act known as Dustin Anderson who hit a fireman.


http://publicshamingeternus.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/dustinanderson.jpg?w=497&h=205

[invisibleairwaves]

Here's a fantastic article on Roberto Luongo from the awesome Canucks blog Pass It To Bulis.

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by logan5

Would it be wise to initiate a more proactive response when you are severely undermanned, even in the first stages of the riot, as you would have liked to have seen?

It would not only be wise, it would be imperative.

Since the police did not have enough personnel to handle a riotous crowd, it became essential to act before the crowd became riotous. I have spoken to witnesses who say it would have required no more than about ten or twenty officers to safely detain the handful of people who initially began to vandalize the car and thereby stop the riot from beginning in the first place. But the police hesitated. Emboldened by police inaction, more people then joined in on the destruction. When the police hesitated even further, the crowd set fire to the car. Once that happened, we had the beginning of the riot.

It is precisely in situations where you do not have enough assets to deal with things if they get out of control that a truly proactive approach becomes more important than ever.

A thousand firefighters could not stop a wildfire once it gets going, but the match that ignites it can be doused by one person with ease. On Wednesday, the crowd was the forest and the car vandals were the match.

[invisibleairwaves]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

It would not only be wise, it would be imperative.

Since the police did not have enough personnel to handle a riotous crowd, it became essential to act before the crowd became riotous. I have spoken to witnesses who say it would have required no more than about ten or twenty officers to safely detain the handful of people who initially began to vandalize the car and thereby stop the riot from beginning in the first place. But the police hesitated. Emboldened by police inaction, more people then joined in on the destruction. When the police hesitated even further, the crowd set fire to the car. Once that happened, we had the beginning of the riot.

It is precisely in situations where you do not have enough assets to deal with things if they get out of control that a truly proactive approach becomes more important than ever.

A thousand firefighters could not stop a wildfire once it gets going, but the match that ignites it can be doused by one person with ease. On Wednesday, the crowd was the forest and the car vandals were the match.

Were you there? I was, and I can tell you that by the time the car was flipped, the crowd was already well and truly out of control, and any attempt by a mere handful of officers to aggressively take down the people attacking the car would have been both ineffective and a massive risk to their own personal safety. The destruction of that car was not what set off the mob, not even close. Things were already well out of hand a block or two away from Georgia and Hamilton as that car was being set on fire.

I agree with you to some extent, that the overall strategy used by the VPD was too passive, but you're putting forward a very misinformed argument at best here.

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

It would not only be wise, it would be imperative.

Since the police did not have enough personnel to handle a riotous crowd, it became essential to act before the crowd became riotous. I have spoken to witnesses who say it would have required no more than about ten or twenty officers to safely detain the handful of people who initially began to vandalize the car and thereby stop the riot from beginning in the first place. But the police hesitated. Emboldened by police inaction, more people then joined in on the destruction. When the police hesitated even further, the crowd set fire to the car. Once that happened, we had the beginning of the riot.

It is precisely in situations where you do not have enough assets to deal with things if they get out of control that a truly proactive approach becomes more important than ever.

A thousand firefighters could not stop a wildfire once it gets going, but the match that ignites it can be doused by one person with ease. On Wednesday, the crowd was the forest and the car vandals were the match.

Prometheus, knock it off. You've made your case clear and you're not going to budge on it, that's great. We don't have to accept it, just as much as you don't have to accept our opinion. Continuing with your crusade is not helping the discussion move along.

[whatnext]

Christie Blatchford neatly skewers the myth that the Winter Olympics were all sweetness and light. Gregor should have known better as well:

...As for the nostalgic wisdom that golly, how different this all was from the gentle Winter Olympics of the previous year, I am unconvinced, and I say that as one who was there for the duration and who every night walked home along Granville from the main press centre at the water’s edge to my hotel at the other end of the street.

I called Granville The River of Vomit back then, because by the wee hours, it so often was.

The streets were flooded with tens of thousands of people then too, also mostly young, often mostly drunk.

In those days, they wore Team Canada shirts and carried Canadian flags. If it was more benign in temperature, that was probably because on the one occasion when things veered out of control — a smidge of daytime rioting that broke out at a downtown protest early in the Games — the police acted swiftly. But then, the law probably had more clout or was more driven back then, with Canada’s international reputation at stake and tourists from all over the world in town...

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/06/17/christie-blatchford-anatomy-of-the-mob/

[invisibleairwaves]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Christie Blatchford neatly skewers the myth that the Winter Olympics were all sweetness and light. Gregor should have known better as well:

...As for the nostalgic wisdom that golly, how different this all was from the gentle Winter Olympics of the previous year, I am unconvinced, and I say that as one who was there for the duration and who every night walked home along Granville from the main press centre at the water’s edge to my hotel at the other end of the street.

I called Granville The River of Vomit back then, because by the wee hours, it so often was.

The streets were flooded with tens of thousands of people then too, also mostly young, often mostly drunk.

In those days, they wore Team Canada shirts and carried Canadian flags. If it was more benign in temperature, that was probably because on the one occasion when things veered out of control — a smidge of daytime rioting that broke out at a downtown protest early in the Games — the police acted swiftly. But then, the law probably had more clout or was more driven back then, with Canada’s international reputation at stake and tourists from all over the world in town...

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/06/17/christie-blatchford-anatomy-of-the-mob/

Indeed. This is why I can't understand the people who were surprised by the riots because the Olympics went so well. I was watching the men's gold medal game from Robson Street, and if Canada had lost that game, it wouldn't have been much prettier than Georgia Street was two nights ago. And that was with all the additional security that came in for the Games. Nobody should be surprised by what happened on Wednesday night.

[SpongeG]

just skimmed so don't know if its been said - I just watched CBC national news - and the parents of Nathan the water polo kid seen lighting the police car on fire - say their son didn't do it! he is innocent and didn't do anything - can you believe that?

anyway CBC played the video they have showing their precious little innocent son throwing a flaming object inside the police car and shouting something about it and CBC commented we are sure the police will be happy with the footage we provide them

wtf with the kids parents - douchebags

funny thing is the news showed the house and neighbourhood and their car where they live - i wonder how egged the house will be tonight

the guy who fell from the viaduct - was apparently a suicide attempt - he is in hospital - it was not related to any of the violence of the riot

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

Indeed. This is why I can't understand the people who were surprised by the riots because the Olympics went so well. I was watching the men's gold medal game from Robson Street, and if Canada had lost that game, it wouldn't have been much prettier than Georgia Street was two nights ago. And that was with all the additional security that came in for the Games. Nobody should be surprised by what happened on Wednesday night.

for sure like i said i overheard before - a number of people saying they are staying for the riot this was hours before the game started - some people wore shirts about the riot and stuff long before it happened

oh and was at the bay downtown again today - the lower level mens dept had some kind of damage - they had a restoration crew in their today mopping up and fixing things up - i wonder if maybe the sprinklers went off in that one section? or something - it seemed to line up with where the car fire was

[Prometheus]

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

Were you there? I was, and I can tell you that by the time the car was flipped, the crowd was already well and truly out of control, and any attempt by a mere handful of officers to aggressively take down the people attacking the car would have been both ineffective and a massive risk to their own personal safety.

By my count, I have spoken to thirteen different people who were there: by the screen, by the car, by the portable toilets, by the fights, by the Bank of Montreal, etc. Every single one them has said the same thing: that there was a point at which the first troublemakers in their area could have been handled, that the failure to do so emboldened others to start acting out as well, and that it was very frustrating to watch events bubble out of control without an adequate response from the police early on. The consensus was also that it was the destruction and torching of the car in front of the Canada Post building that, more than anything else, turned what was general unruliness into a surreal, lawless, third-world, war-torn atmosphere where anything seemed permissible. The torching of the car was the bridge between aggressive behaviour and a full-blown, uncontrollable riot.

[vancityrox]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

for sure like i said i overheard before - a number of people saying they are staying for the riot this was hours before the game started - some people wore shirts about the riot and stuff long before it happened

oh and was at the bay downtown again today - the lower level mens dept had some kind of damage - they had a restoration crew in their today mopping up and fixing things up - i wonder if maybe the sprinklers went off in that one section? or something - it seemed to line up with where the car fire was

Yeah the West End suit shop in the Basement level at The Bay was flooded. It was from the water used to put out the fires on the Seymour side of the bay. It got into the building and damaged the ceiling and some merchandise and the operating room for the building. The floor is gonna go through renovations starting at the end of this month. Making room for more brands like Topman. etc

[SpongeG]

ah okay makes sense - i hadn't really walked around that part of the bay so much I was surprised by how much hugo boss they carry now hugo boss, hugo boss orange, hugo boss green etc. and other high end labels...

anyway they also replaced the damaged parking metre and the melted lights on the awning were replaced too

[vancityrox]

The reception we are getting at The Bay is so tremendous. The wall around the Bay windows is just amazing and inspiring to see what a difference we can make. Thanks so much to all for helping with the clean up outside on the streets around the downtown core. We are holding Pancake breakfast day tomorrow morning for the public outside on the Granville side to say Thank you to you all. Starts at 9-9:30am. Come say hello and enjoy yummy pancakes!

[vancityrox]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

ah okay makes sense - i hadn't really walked around that part of the bay so much I was surprised by how much hugo boss they carry now hugo boss, hugo boss orange, hugo boss green etc. and other high end labels...

anyway they also replaced the damaged parking metre and the melted lights on the awning were replaced too

Oh wait till you see "The Room" for mens floor. Hugo Boss is gonna be a BIG part of it and its going to be so awesome. Can't wait till you all can see and shop there. The Bay is going to be THE place to shop in all Vancouver... it's getting there...

[whatnext]

Great move by the Bay!

It seems like the new management is really trying to revive the brand, and that kind of community outreach really helps.

Once its reopened I'll be heading to that Blenz on Georgia as well. When they interviewed the owner she was totally devastated. People forget that some of these chains are really franchises, small business people trying to make a living.

[Kodii]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

just skimmed so don't know if its been said - I just watched CBC national news - and the parents of Nathan the water polo kid seen lighting the police car on fire - say their son didn't do it! he is innocent and didn't do anything - can you believe that?

No where in the report did his parents claim his innocence. His father simply stated that the photo is misleading, and that Nathan didn't light the car on fire (the car was already on fire). Don't be so quick to jump to judgement about his parents. I know them and it's unfair to take their words out of context. The same report also quotes the father saying that they are turning Nathan into police.

[vancityrox]

You are right whatnext. We are trying to make it better and its getting there!

so please drop by and support the cause and have pancakes on us!

[SpongeG]

yeah - i walked past blendz today and it was still closed and still needing a lot of work to get done

the bay or people visiting the walls/windows at the bay have made a flag type thing with messages on them hung as a flag/banner along the awning and people are also adding printouts of some of the rioters/looters shaming them