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View Poll Results: Would you vote for a ETS Rapid Transit masterplan scheme?
Yes, I'd vote for more BRT/LRT 301 82.92%
No, what we have is fine. 34 9.37%
I dunno, maybe, yes, no, whatever. 28 7.71%
Voters: 363. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1421  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 4:23 PM
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Unless you have yet to start at NAIT, I don't think that will be the case. (Unless you are part-time that is...)
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  #1422  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 4:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onishenko View Post
Unless you have yet to start at NAIT, I don't think that will be the case. (Unless you are part-time that is...)
There is a year break between Year 2 and Year 3 so I can get my CGA accreditation I think.
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  #1423  
Old Posted Jan 23, 2008, 6:15 PM
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It will be good to link up NAIT and Grant Mac to the LRT. However I would love for the rest of the plan to go forward as well in the next couple years. I would love to see the entire $5 billion plan for LRT (with the WLRT included as well) started and completed by 2017.
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  #1424  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 7:21 AM
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West LRT route and cost

From the McKernan Messenger newsletter. Estimates from ISL for both the South Campus route and the Health Sciences route come in at about $1.2B. Apparently vibrations for the Cross Cancer are no longer a concern for the University Ave alignment.

Quote:
New items on the West End High Speed Transit Issue: the City has a new approach to the Bus Rapid Transit proposals. The routes will stay the same, one to Foote Field and one to the City Centre. Even the `stations' will remain the same, i.e. Lewis Estates, WEM, likely Misericordia Hospital, then Meadowlark, plus a few more. So will the installation of bus-priority lights and possible bus-only lanes. However, there will be no fancy stations for the buses with modern electronics to tell you when the next bus is due. The money saved on bells and whistles is to be applied to LRT expansion. Another idea to be implemented will be that the buses will first circulate through West End Communities to pick up passengers, then become Super Express lines from Lewis Estates/WEM to the downtown or Foote Field. There is also a new name for the service: Super Express replaces of Bus Rapid Transit.

Our SLRT is going ahead to Heritage (Century Park), and then is likely to be extended farther south rather than swinging toward Millwoods. An extension at the Clareview end is also high on the recommended list. A new line from Churchill station to Grant MacEwan College, the Royal Alex Hospital and NAIT is on the detailed planning stage. There were open houses for this proposal early in December. Eventually this line can be extended to St Albert.

The consultants, ISL, then gave us an estimate of costs for LRT construction for both the West End to Foote and then to Health Sciences, and for West End directly to Health Sciences by way of University Avenue. Both came in at the 1.2 billion dollar mark. Travel time from the West End to Health Science will be quicker by the direct route, 17 compared to 24 minutes. We, the communities, had considered the 87 Ave./University Ave. route already two years ago, but had been discouraged from discussing it seriously because the Cancer Clinic was adamantly opposed the route due to anticipated interference with diagnostic equipment. It now turns out that sufficient amelioration can be provided.

A few details: The Foote Field route requires either that it terminates there and passengers transfer, as currently envisaged for the buses, or that the trains keep going north from Foote Field, stop at 76 Ave, Health Science and continue on downtown. At peak hours, trains going north from the 76 Ave station and trains going south from Health Sciences would coordinate their departures with the traffic lights at Univ Ave and cross at the same time.

The direct route will require that a cut and cover tunnel be built under the service road on the south side of Univ Ave, which will cause serious disturbance for the local residents for a year or two. The track will stay underground and finally surface on the north side of University Ave just before it gets to the Health Science station.

For both routes, as many as 230 houses may have to be removed to provide right of way for the LRT.

Our community consultation group will meet again in February. There will be open houses after that and I will keep you posted on further developments.
     
     
  #1425  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 8:14 AM
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I know this is alittle off the present topic of conversation, but I am moving to Edmonton in 7 days, and Im curious about the transit system, how would you rate it? The interactive map is abit confusing, theres alot more bus routes than Im used to seeing (I suppose thats a good thing) But it will be my main source of transit, and I was hoping to get a few impressions on it, reliability, speed cost. Any thoughts?
     
     
  #1426  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 12:51 PM
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/\ Where are you living/working/etc?

The cost is minimal and comparable to most cities. $2.50 a trip(?...did they just change it) The speed and network aren't anything to write home about. If you can live on or near the LRT line and work/school/etc. is connected to the line then that would make life a lot easier. Otherwise there are some express buses in the AM to downtown and what not, but I hope you are not thinking a cross-town commute. That can equal 1 1/2 hrs in some cases.
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  #1427  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 2:59 PM
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230 houses? that's way too much. That could easily be 100m of the budget. 230 houses is about 4KM of homes. Couldn't they use road or service lane space?
     
     
  #1428  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 5:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FazDeH View Post
I know this is alittle off the present topic of conversation, but I am moving to Edmonton in 7 days, and Im curious about the transit system, how would you rate it? The interactive map is abit confusing, theres alot more bus routes than Im used to seeing (I suppose thats a good thing) But it will be my main source of transit, and I was hoping to get a few impressions on it, reliability, speed cost. Any thoughts?
Currently the monthly passes are among the cheapest in the country but that will change over the next 4 years.

ETS operates on a transit centre/hub system as opposed to the grid system you might find in larger cities.

If you're commuting to downtown in the morning you should be fine because there are plenty of express busses. But if you're taking the bus to the mall or a friend's house you won't be so lucky as a lot of routes tend to wind through neighbourhoods to pick up passengers resulting in trips that are much too long and annoying.

Generally speaking the timing of the busses according to the schedule is pretty accurate.
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  #1429  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 6:19 PM
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Speaking of which, and I think I've already asked before, has there been study of how and if we could revamp our 'hub' system?
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  #1430  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 6:25 PM
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I don't know if there've been actual studies done but I was told that our population density just doesn't support the grid system, leaving the hub as our only alternative. Personally I think a little creativity could go a long way.
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  #1431  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 6:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FazDeH View Post
I know this is alittle off the present topic of conversation, but I am moving to Edmonton in 7 days, and Im curious about the transit system, how would you rate it? The interactive map is abit confusing, theres alot more bus routes than Im used to seeing (I suppose thats a good thing) But it will be my main source of transit, and I was hoping to get a few impressions on it, reliability, speed cost. Any thoughts?
Stick around here please. We need some more Europeans to join up and shake things up a bit
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  #1432  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 9:27 PM
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europeans? Im from Ontario lol.
Thanks everyone for your responses. Yes Im on a bus line, or rather a 2 block walk to one, I'm told Im a 5 minute bus ride from west ed. Im living on 87 ave near the the river. As it goes yes I will want to get a transit pass, so much easier than paying the fare everytime I get on a bus, THAT adds up. Again thanks for all your comments, Im looking forward to seeing Edmonton, I hear its beautiful.
     
     
  #1433  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 10:49 PM
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^ When I see London, I just assume UK..
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  #1434  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2008, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FazDeH View Post
europeans? Im from Ontario lol.
Thanks everyone for your responses. Yes Im on a bus line, or rather a 2 block walk to one, I'm told Im a 5 minute bus ride from west ed. Im living on 87 ave near the the river. As it goes yes I will want to get a transit pass, so much easier than paying the fare everytime I get on a bus, THAT adds up. Again thanks for all your comments, Im looking forward to seeing Edmonton, I hear its beautiful.
Well, there's "London" and then there's "London, Ontario". No offence. Welcome to Edmonton.
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  #1435  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2008, 6:39 PM
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Portland the very model of modern urban transit
Well-planned system spurs downtown growth, offers $2 airport trips

Mike Sadava
The Edmonton Journal


Saturday, January 26, 2008


Here's a piece of trivia that could get you thinking.

How much does it cost to get from the airport to Portland, Ore.'s lively downtown?

The answer stunned me during a recent visit to that city: $2.05.

That's right, $2.05, and that was during rush hour. It was only $1.75 going back to the airport during off-peak hours.

Compare that to a cab to the Edmonton International Airport -- at least $40. The Sky Shuttle to downtown, the west end or the university area is more reasonable at $25 return, or you can park for about $10 a day and then enjoy the pleasure of scraping the ice off your car when you return.

The lack of public transit to the airport is just a small piece of the sorry story that Edmonton is the most automobile-dependent major city in Canada.

There's nothing like going to another city to become aware of some of the shortcomings of your own, and Portland has made a concerted effort to wean itself off the automobile.

Portland's LRT carries 104,000 passengers per weekday, compared to Edmonton's 46,000.

With nearly 70 kilometres of line in operation compared to Edmonton's 12.9 kilometres, and a new line under construction and two more in the planning phase, it's no wonder.

While LRT to the Edmonton International Airport is little more than a pipe dream, 1.1 million people took the LRT to get to or from Portland International Airport in 2007, and the number grows by at least 10 per cent every year.

The Metro Portland area, with a population of two million, started its LRT, called the Max, nearly a decade after Edmonton did, but it built the system with a vision, actively using land-use planning to make it a success.

The Max, which started running its first leg in 1986, was to be the backbone of what had been a large, fragmented region around Portland, tying it all together and promoting economic growth while reducing reliance on the automobile, says Rex Burkholder, a regional councillor with Metro Portland.

"This was a typical western city with no boundaries for years and years, but now we're running up against not only physical but also financial boundaries," Burkholder says.

Developing around LRT

Development itself in many of these suburban communities has been oriented around LRT, and many of the towns and cities along the line have experienced significant revitalization because of it.

Jillian Detweiler, a senior planner with Tri Met, which runs the transit system, says Gresham, a small city at the east end of the line, didn't want the LRT when it was first planned in the early 1980s, and it didn't go right to its downtown area.

But once it was there, the development of the downtown moved towards the LRT station, and the line turned out to be extremely successful.

While she doesn't like to suggest a causal relationship, Detweiler notes there has been a total of $3 billion of residential and commercial development around the LRT lines.

The system also has 22 free park-and-ride lots and garages, mostly in the suburbs, but Detweiler says they prefer people get to the LRT by bus, foot and bike, because once many people get into their cars, they don't want to get out.

Downtown Portland has a carrot-and-stick approach to encourage LRT use. Parking is relatively scarce and expensive, while a big loop through downtown is free of charge.

But even with fares lower than Edmonton and the free-fare area, LRT comes close to meeting its operating costs through fares, in contrast to many of the bus routes which reap a

much smaller percentage of the costs, she says.

Burkholder says the beauty of having numerous lines is that every time a new line is built, ridership increases on the existing lines.

There was little thought given to running the Portland system underground, which marked the start of Edmonton's slowly expanding LRT.

They didn't really need to: The LRT was given precedence over cars. In fact, two lanes of traffic were even removed from a major arterial to make way for the Gresham line, which would be unheard of in many cities, she says.

"It says a lot about the system that it is a surface system that gets signal priority and goes to people's front doors," Det-

weiler says. "It is an indicator that it does not play second fiddle to the automobile."

Paradoxically, what has turned out to be rational urban planning was originally sparked by a strong anti-

urban movement among farmers who wanted to limit the development of Portland.

That led to a strong state law, unique in North America, that put boundaries on urban development.

Citizen activism

The seeds of the LRT were planted in the late '70s when a strong citizens' movement arose to fight a freeway that would have destroyed some cherished older neighbourhoods.

They won, and it took a few years, but the money that had been allocated for the freeway went instead to LRT.

There were bumps along the way: The state passed legislation that would have discouraged planning by giving over-generous compensation to landowners affected by rezoning which was later scrapped, and events the day after the airport line opened on Sept. 10, 2001. (The LRT was a big help in evacuating the airport.)

There are finally signs that Edmonton is headed in the right direction. Transit ridership into the downtown area is up, the south line is proceeding apace and council is starting to talk about lines to NAIT, eventually to St. Albert, Fort Saskatchewan, the new suburbs in the deep southwest and, some day, even to the airport.

I'll be ready with my two bucks, or whatever it costs, to be on that first train to the airport.

Contact Mike Sadava via phone, 429-5334; fax, 429-5500; or e-mail, [email protected]

© The Edmonton Journal 2008
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  #1436  
Old Posted Jan 26, 2008, 10:17 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is online now
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If Edmonton could only get the political will to remove traffic lanes for LRT maybe the Nait line wouldn't cost $700-800 million.

Its funny to see Portland used as a model, when their ridership over the entire system is sitting below 100k (weekday boarding). (a refurbished streetcar line adds another 10k a day)

Portland's system is always trotted out as the measure of sustainability, but realistically, for the amount of track, and the supposed density of the city there should be more ridership.

Edmonton's system is at 40% of the ridership for 17.6% of the track. If anything, Portland should come to Edmonton and look at why such a limited system is more effective at generating ridership.
     
     
  #1437  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2008, 3:49 AM
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Yeah, i dunno. I really got to get out there and visit the city. I wrote a big paper on their system this fall, and have admired their cohesive approach to multi-modal transit for a long time.
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  #1438  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2008, 6:21 PM
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^ I was in Portland this summer meeting with colleagues and they all raved about the transit system there. Which I thought was kind of funny since none of them ever use it - Americans.

Seriously though, it would be great to see Edmonton build a system modeled after Portland.
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  #1439  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2008, 7:05 PM
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I may sound like I'm pandering, but the it all fits together quite well. TOD's, higher density, bike & pedestrian movement are making huge strides in the city, land-use planning, street car, lrt, etc..... I really need to get down there. OK, I'd done singing their praises.
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  #1440  
Old Posted Jan 27, 2008, 9:43 PM
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^problem is...most people (~80%+) wouldnt, IMO, give up their car for transit regardless of the convenience and or $ savings.
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