TCH east of Nipigon (La route transcanadienne à l'est de Nipigon)

[Andy6]

You blocked off my cottage road. If that's what the little triangle means. I forecast some pushback on these plans from the local community. It cuts through the alpaca farm - they're quite sensitive.

But still, very ambitious and definitely four months well spent. I would personally like to see the highway divided from the Sault to Sudbury because it will help tourism and business.

[Dengler Avenue]

The little triangle should be an interchange. For the alpaca farm, are you referring to the stretch between Vermillion Bay and Dryden? That’s why I also drew a northern alternative to avoid the farmland.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

The little triangle should be an interchange. For the alpaca farm, are you referring to the stretch between Vermillion Bay and Dryden? That’s why I also drew a northern alternative to avoid the farmland.

In Northern ON, it is best to avoid the farmland like the plague. There is so little of it that taking any away would be a disservice for the area.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

In Northern ON, it is best to avoid the farmland like the plague. There is so little of it that taking any away would be a disservice for the area.

I need to see if Andy6 was talking about west of Dryden. Keep in mind, I drew the routes for that area first and for places in NEO like Sturgeon Falls (for example) much much later. At the beginning, I would put the freeway where the terrain's flat, but at the later stages, I tried to sandwich it between farmland and rocks.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

I need to see if Andy6 was talking about west of Dryden. Keep in mind, I drew the routes for that area first and for places in NEO like Sturgeon Falls (for example) much much later. At the beginning, I would put the freeway where the terrain's flat, but at the later stages, I tried to sandwich it between farmland and rocks.

East of the Sault.

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by Andy6

East of the Sault.

Huh okay. Lol I thought it would be by the Lake of the Woods.
Anyway, triangles are interchange locations.
I tried my best to keep the freeway between farmland and rocks.

[Andy6]

Wow ... we get our very own interchange. That seems extravagant but if you're paying for it, why not!

[Dengler Avenue]

Keep in mind, I drew the whole thing with the assumption that it will be a divided freeway (hence 417 extension). In fact, that's what MTO wanted for 17 up to SSM as well.
https://agendasonline.greatersudbury...hment=5101.pdf
The dumb thing is, no one seems to know what has become of those 5 projects between Espanola and Desbarats. Also, the route between Espanola and Denlou was supposedly finalized, but even the locals don't know where it goes.
Maybe I will for real file a FOI with MTO to get the route when I have time, and that's if they've actually finalized the whole thing. Then I will compare it to mine.
So really, the stretch from Petawawa to Rolphton, from Denlou to Desbarats, then from Kakabeka Falls to Shabaqua Corners are guessworks of MTO proposals. (Then you have something like Kenora Bypass, which is a no-brainer. )

Ps: @swimmer_spe actually made 2 proposals between Hagar (Markstay) and North Bay. Does anyone wanna venture a guess which two?
And yes, credits to swimmer_spe for teaching me how to read terrain maps, without which skill I wouldn't have been able to pull this off, at all.

[sonysnob]

To me, I read "future planning" as "never undertaken".

[Dengler Avenue]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

To me, I read "future planning" as "never undertaken".

spoken like an insider

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

spoken like an insider

That's cus he is....

Future proofing is important. For example, route 6 through North Bay has been like that for decades.

There are lots of places that have reserved those sections so that roads can be extended or widened.

[Dengler Avenue]

I guess my proposals from #1420 for the stretch along Lake Huron Shore are original then...

[Dengler Avenue]

Anyway, does anyone wanna take a look to see if the section between SSM and Sudbury makes topological and geological sense? Don't worry about the economical and political aspects just yet (because they're assumed no, lol). (If you can also do Markstay - North Bay and Deux Rivières - Petawawa, that will be great!)
The link is here:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...j0&usp=sharing

[Andy6]

I can only speak for SSM to Thessalon and it seems fine. While there is already the four-lane stretch of Highway 17 through the Bar River Flats, maybe it would make more sense to make it a continuation of 17B and adopt a more direct routing between Desbarats and Echo Bay for 417. That country up around Sylvan Valley is very pretty.

But there would still need to be some sort of link from 548 to the new 417 since 548 is busy in the summer months.

[Dengler Avenue]

Man, I actually thought about that too: proposing a more direct route between Desbarats and Echo Bay, and reverting the remainder of the current segment back to 2 lanes. Then I got lazy.
By the way, do you reach your cottage via the states? Or is it because the realignment from Thessalon to points east is too far to tell? (I admit a lot of that was to some degree a shot in the dark.)

[swimmer_spe]

After driving across Canada, it has me thinking - In ON we are doing it wrong.

The 400 series highways and their design parameters, while they may seem like good sense, they are very expensive to build. What i would be proposing instead is what the West has done. 4 lanes, divided usually with a grassy median or a forest or small lake, and mainly at grade intersections. To add to that, all of the most busy intersections can be built with a fully grade separated intersection. As intersections get busy, they can be improved in the future. This should mean that we could have a divided highway from the GTA/Ottawa to MB a lot faster and cheaper.

[Dengler Avenue]

... Did you already forget about Thunder Bay Expressway...

Edit: I think I roasted you a bit hard.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Man, I actually thought about that too: proposing a more direct route between Desbarats and Echo Bay, and reverting the remainder of the current segment back to 2 lanes. Then I got lazy.
By the way, do you reach your cottage via the states? Or is it because the realignment from Thessalon to points east is too far to tell? (I admit a lot of that was to some degree a shot in the dark.)

I go in an airplane. I haven't travelled there by road for decades and when I was young we came from the other direction, from Manitoba. Thessalon is as far as we ever normally went for a drive or to go shopping. Beyond that I don't know very well.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

After driving across Canada, it has me thinking - In ON we are doing it wrong.

The 400 series highways and their design parameters, while they may seem like good sense, they are very expensive to build. What i would be proposing instead is what the West has done. 4 lanes, divided usually with a grassy median or a forest or small lake, and mainly at grade intersections. To add to that, all of the most busy intersections can be built with a fully grade separated intersection. As intersections get busy, they can be improved in the future. This should mean that we could have a divided highway from the GTA/Ottawa to MB a lot faster and cheaper.

Highway 17 from Echo Bay to Desbarats, east of Sault Ste. Marie, was done that way in the 1970s. it is a very nice highway with turning lanes and well-lit intersections. It is more than adequate for the area. That's why I found it somewhat over-the-top to contemplate the interchange proposal -- I mean, kids are riding their bikes on the highway to the big regional high school at Desbarats ... and farm vehicles are using it a lot too (there are a lot of horse-and-buggy Mennonites in the area). It just seems like Highway 17 has to serve so many purposes that the current 4-lane set-up is pretty much ideal.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

... Did you already forget about Thunder Bay Expressway...

Edit: I think I roasted you a bit hard.

I don't mean signalized lights. If lights are needed, then it is time for a grade separated interchange.

Besides, I have been continually roasting you for wanting to destroy one of the best motorcycle roads in the province.

Originally Posted by Andy6

Highway 17 from Echo Bay to Desbarats, east of Sault Ste. Marie, was done that way in the 1970s. it is a very nice highway with turning lanes and well-lit intersections. It is more than adequate for the area. That's why I found it somewhat over-the-top to contemplate the interchange proposal -- I mean, kids are riding their bikes on the highway to the big regional high school at Desbarats ... and farm vehicles are using it a lot too (there are a lot of horse-and-buggy Mennonites in the area). It just seems like Highway 17 has to serve so many purposes that the current 4-lane set-up is pretty much ideal.

This is what I mean. Imagine if it had the same laws as the 400 series highways.