LeBreton Flats 2.0 (RendezVous LeBreton) | Cancelled

[rocketphish]

Epic, it's not – but LeBreton Flats plan will have to do

Randall Denley
Published on: April 28, 2016 | Last Updated: April 28, 2016 5:17 PM EDT

Thursday was a great day for Ottawa Senators’ owner Eugene Melnyk and for hockey fans who don’t live in the west end. For everyone else, the latest development in the LeBreton Flats saga was a lot less earthshaking than the National Capital Commission’s self-congratulatory tone would suggest.

NCC staff and board members were full of praise for the process that might ultimately lead to a hockey rink downtown, but surely the point is that all this process has produced the most modest plan imaginable for this significant piece of federal land in the heart of the capital.

The NCC wanted a central element of national stature. Instead it might get a hockey rink and a bunch of offices, condos and retail. Let’s not kid ourselves: There is nothing of national significance about that. This is a decent city-building project, but it won’t even be a blip on the national radar.

Much was said Thursday about the splendour of the two plans submitted to the NCC, but one suspects this was mostly an attempt to create the impression that there is a viable alternative as the NCC tries to squeeze more money out of Melnyk and his team.

Realistically, the proposal by Melnyk and his partners was the only rational choice available. The rival plan from a Quebec-based consortium was so full of hot air that it’s a wonder it didn’t lift off and drift into space.

That proposal has every kind of geegaw imaginable and some that are not. There would be a beer museum, a car museum, a news museum, an aquarium, a skate park, and a planetarium. Even the hockey rink was billed as “The Theatre of Sports and Entertainment.”

It would be a great plan, in Niagara Falls.

NCC evaluators wisely questioned the sustainability of the multi-museum plan, although they didn’t consider building an NHL hockey rink without an NHL hockey team an obvious deal-breaker.

The Melnyk plan, or RendezVous LeBreton as no one will call it, boils down to a variety of hockey-related uses, accompanied by a lot of housing, office space and retail. This is being sold as some kind of game-changer for downtown, but how often have you ever heard people here say “Boy, we sure need more condos and offices downtown?”

While all the talk is about hockey, the retail, housing and office components are where the money will be made, and what this is really all about. When the current Senators’ rink was built in Kanata, it was mostly a deal to enhance local land values. Here we go again.

It’s really a pity that what was supposed to be a big discussion about the future of the capital devolved into a small discussion about the future of the Senators. It’s not a surprise, though. The redevelopment of LeBreton was doomed to be a modest project from the outset of this latest NCC attempt to solve the age-old riddle of how to develop the Flats.

If something of national significance was to go on the site, it would almost certainly have to be built by the federal government. A less embarrassing science museum would have been the obvious choice. That didn’t attract the previous Conservative government, and the new Liberal government is spilling money just about everywhere except LeBreton.

Not to say that this LeBreton plan is bad. Pretty much anything is an improvement over the ugly scar that’s there now. We will get an improved arena that pretty much assures that the Senators will be in Ottawa for the long run. It’s also good to see the NCC working together on this with Ottawa and Gatineau. That makes sense.

While there is much work still to be done, we can be fairly confident that the Melnyk plan will go ahead. Both parties are highly motivated. The NCC wants to get LeBreton off its plate and Melnyk and his partners stand to make quite a lot of money. That ought to get the deal done.

Randall Denley is an Ottawa commentator, novelist and former Ontario Progressive Conservative candidate. Contact him at randalldenley1@gmail.com

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/col...ill-have-to-do

[rocketphish]

LeBreton Flats will flourish anew

Ottawa Citizen Editorial Board
Published on: April 28, 2016 | Last Updated: April 28, 2016 6:03 PM EDT

The home team won: Eugene Melnyk’s RendezVous LeBreton group was the clear victor in the National Capital Commission’s ranking of two rival bids to develop LeBreton Flats. But now the hard work begins. The really hard work.

For while the NCC spent much time patting itself on the back Thursday for running a clean and fair competition, chair Russell Mills also reminded board members that the financial details of the project are confidential, and NCC planning director Stephen Willis noted that a deal still needs to be negotiated over the coming months. The public, for now, must take everyone’s word that Melnyk’s group has the wherewithal to bring all phases of its ambitious project to fruition.

Ottawans must also resign themselves to years of process and preparation before shovels hit the ground; Willis all but conceded that building schedules will slide.

In the meantime, let’s focus on the positive. This bold plan (“bold” being a word repeated many times at Thursday’s NCC meeting) is worth a resounding cheer.

Here’s a quick recap of what the commission unanimously approved: Sensplex rinks, a major event centre and a centre for recreation, rehab and use by disabled athletes; office, commercial and retail-residential space, including affordable housing; a restored heritage aquaduct, lined with shops and cafés; careful attention to environmental standards and enhancements; and street designs and other attractions that align the project with the city’s own planning goals while also respecting the history of the Flats.

The NCC’s evaluation team liked the fact the plan will stitch LeBreton, long the badlands of Ottawa, back into the fabric of the city.

We like this too. And we appreciate the boost the NCC is giving the Ottawa Senators. This city has come to embrace its NHL team; pulling it closer to our geographic heart feels fundamentally right. Not everyone who participated in public consultations liked this, of course: the NCC’s feedback report shows many unimpressed with a big development based on a hockey arena. But that seems wiser than banking on the array of proposals put forward by the Devcore Canderel DLS Group, which pitched a Ripley’s aquarium, a YMCA and an automobile museum among the disparate parts of its bid.

Now it’s about devils and details. Some question the financial ability of Melnyk and his partners to carry forward their project. Because little is publicly known yet about the financing, and because the NCC’s customary cone of silence is about to clank down again, we’ll get no answers soon.

Still, optimism is in order. This project breathes life and energy back into the Flats. It’s worth public praise.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/edi...-flourish-anew

[rocketphish]

NCC goes smaller and safer with its LeBreton plans

David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: April 28, 2016 | Last Updated: April 28, 2016 6:41 PM EDT

The National Capital Commission is going with the more Ottawa bid for LeBreton Flats — the homegrown effort led by our beloved Ottawa Senators, yes, but also the one that’s smaller and therefore safer.

The Senators’ bid, assuming negotiations over the details work out over the next year or so, will mean the team can move into a downtown arena, where a pro sports team ought to be. As the commission’s evaluators said, the Sens’ “IllumiNation LeBreton” plan will knit the Flats back into the fabric of the city, from which they were so foolishly ripped by an NCC expropriation 50 years ago.

“All streets will be complete streets, which is consistent with the city’s strategy,” NCC planning director Steve Willis said in reporting the recommendation to the NCC board Thursday afternoon, to give you a sense of the tone. Accessibility, a street grid that joins up with the rest of the city, a plaza at the north end of Preston Street — all the urban touches add up.

The evaluation committee especially liked the Sens’ plan to build a long terrace over the city’s light-rail line where it runs through the Flats, keeping it from being a deep trench that divides the critical land into two distinct sites. The rival bid, from consortium DCDLS, included crossings of the line but not enough of them.

Mind you, DCDLS’s proposal also included a way more ambitious set of major institutions, from an aquarium to a communications museum. Mainly, the Eugene Melnyk plan has condo and office towers — so many of them that the NCC worries that it depends on selling too many units into a saturated market in too little time. The last phase of development is so tower-heavy that the evaluators fretted that Melnyk’s planners and architects haven’t given much thought to what kind of a neighbourhood it’ll be.

Of course it’s more fun to imagine ourselves living in a city that contained DCDLS’s vast tourism and entertainment district, backed by billionaires like André Desmarais and Cirque du Soleil impresario Guy Laliberté.

The question, which DCDLS didn’t answer to the evaluators’ satisfaction, is whether Ottawa could really support a “megablock” of super-sized institutions. What happens if one fails? Willis asked. Or never gets off the ground? Information about making all those things self-sustaining was “incomplete,” he said, and that really worried the evaluators.

(Plus there’s the automotive museum, whose spark comes from DCDLS partner J.-P. Poulin’s desire to show off the car collection of a friend in Thetford Mines. That might have been one idea too many.)

An empty lot or an empty building would be just about the worst possible thing for the NCC. The emptiness of LeBreton Flats is the commission’s greatest shame. It cannot afford to have something there fail. Better to be second-rate than vacant. And even if that didn’t happen, Willis said that such a collection of great big museums and whatnot could be “vulnerable to an emptiness much of the year.” Nobody hangs out outside the Museum of History in Gatineau in January.

The Sens’ bid, aside from including an arena with a guaranteed occupant, promises affordable housing, a Sensplex, an “Abilities Centre” for people with, well, disabilities. All of these have existing models. Willis said the Senators don’t really have backup plans for any of those sites, but they’re not very likely to need them.

If there’s something to be really pleased about in Melnyk’s win, it’s that Ottawa won’t be relying on outsiders to bring the pizzazz.

“We were virtually completely Ottawa. Certainly Ontario,” he said of the bid group after the commission made its announcement. That wasn’t a formal factor in the evaluation — the National Capital Commission doesn’t care overmuch about that kind of thing — so the group came by its win honestly. Now they’ll be leading a $3.5-billion-with-a-B development project here. Gaining experience, building themselves up as they build the project, getting rich. Cirque du Soleil grew in Quebec before it expanded anywhere else, after all.

The DCDLS bid still met the NCC’s minimum standards, but it’ll only be reactivated if negotiations fall through with Melnyk and his group. “We’ll be on the sidelines,” a disappointed Poulin said after the commission made its announcement. “I don’t think the land transaction will not close.”

Considering how badly Melnyk wants to move his hockey team into a new arena, and how badly the NCC wants a development without hitches, Poulin is probably right.

Easier, simpler, and more doable. But a step forward for Ottawa all the same.

dreevely@postmedia.com
twitter.com/davidreevely

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...lebreton-plans

[Mr.Flintstone]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

I agree, the architecture on the condo side of things for the Rendezvous bid is weak and bland. But, do you remember what the architecture for the condos on the Devcore bid looked like? Yikes, it was worse. Hopefully these are the kinds of things that can be ironed out in the negotiations. The last thing we need is another Union du Canada Redevelopment.

I'm pretty sure the images of the condos were pretty much place holders.

[rocketphish]

LeBreton decision resolves the issue of who will own the Senators

Mark Sutcliffe
Published on: April 28, 2016 | Last Updated: April 28, 2016 6:16 PM EDT

For all the talk of nation-building and changing the face of Ottawa, the main thing the NCC decided Thursday may have been who will own the Senators in 10 years.

Sure, there were a few things riding on the outcome. There were some differences between the proposals in design and use of space: a car museum here, an aqueduct there. But even though members of the NCC’s selection committee didn’t consider what’s best for the owner of the local hockey team, Eugene Melnyk was the individual with the most at stake.

Once the two proposals were unveiled in January, the consequences of the decision to the broad community did not seem significant. These were not competing visions for the space, but two pitches with a very similar vision. Particularly since the financial details of the two plans were not shared publicly, it was hard for many people to draw major distinctions between them, other than the fact that one proponent owned a hockey team and the other clearly wanted to.

The NCC’s selection committee followed meaningful criteria, based on its mandate to build a great capital for all Canadians. But ultimately, the indirect and unintentional product of the outcome is that the city has been spared a prolonged discussion about what happens next.

Think of what we have avoided, so long as the negotiations are successful: a disappointed Melnyk, thwarted in his latest bid to create a sustainable business model, facing a series of questions about whether he would consider working with the other bid and moving the team into an arena he didn’t own, and speculation about whether the Senators could remain viable in Kanata. The situation might have been up in the air for months, or longer.

Instead, the community has a much more straightforward path. Now, we must simply consider what criteria to apply to the agreement. What financial model are we willing to accept? How will the clean-up of the contaminated land be paid for? What tax deferral schemes can we live with? And how much public space, affordable housing and other community benefits should be part of the final product?

Let’s not be confused into thinking everything that was in the Senators’ original proposal will actually come to fruition. This is a massive development on a very long timetable. Many of the people who were in the room when the decision was announced will be long retired by the time the final phase is built. Market conditions, demographics and technological change may dictate changes in the intervening period. But if the right deal is struck, we will finally have a framework that will capitalize on prime land in central Ottawa and turn it into something useful, meaningful and appealing.

For the Senators, this has the potential to be almost as big a moment as when the franchise was awarded. The business model of the small-market franchise can be dramatically altered by the development and the location of the arena. Most Ottawa residents think the hockey rink should have been located downtown in the first place; the Devcore Canderel DLS Group acknowledged as much when it included a tenantless arena in its bid.

Once that happened, it was almost predetermined that unless the NCC rejected both bids, the Senators would move downtown with a revitalized business model. The only issue was who would own the arena and the team and benefit from the new development. We may never know exactly what was at the end of the other path. But like many, I’m guessing it would have led to a partnership being struck or the sale of the Senators to the billionaires behind Devcore.

Ultimately, the main thing decided Thursday was how much Eugene Melnyk would benefit from the move and how long the city would have to wait for everything to be resolved. To a large extent, the community had already gotten what it wanted. Thursday, Melnyk finally did.

Mark Sutcliffe is the host of Ottawa Today, weekdays 9 a.m. to 1 p.m. on 1310 NEWS.

http://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/col...-lebreton-bids

[mykl]

I really couldn't be happier today This decision makes sense on so many levels. Someone stick an "I <3 the NCC" pin on my shirt while they have the chance.

[rocketphish]

Plan to cover LRT line earned high marks for favoured LeBreton bid

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: April 28, 2016 | Last Updated: April 28, 2016 10:11 PM EDT

It’s game-on at LeBreton Flats.

After decades of debate about what to do with the swath of undeveloped land in the heart of the capital, the National Capital Commission on Thursday gave its blessing to a project that promises to transform this city — and bring the Ottawa Senators back downtown.

The NCC named Senators owner Eugene Melnyk’s RendezVous LeBreton group as the preferred candidate to build up LeBreton, and it appears a light rail transit line that doesn’t yet exist was a key factor in the making of that decision.

The NCC’s board unanimously approved a staff recommendation Thursday to begin negotiations with Melnyk’s group, which NCC chief executive Mark Kristmanson said “clearly achieved a higher ranking” from an evaluation committee than the competing Devcore Canderel DLS bid.

The DCDLS plan wasn’t rejected outright. The NCC is keeping it as a backup plan in case negotiations with RendezVous LeBreton go poorly.

Negotiations will start this summer and could continue into 2017, with federal approvals and the announcement of a successful proponent late next year or in 2018.

The plan will then have to go through a joint City of Ottawa-NCC approval process, followed by official plan and zoning amendments and other agreements.

Stephen Willis, the NCC’s chief planner, predicted it could take three to five years before construction begins on LeBreton Flats, which has been largely vacant for more than 50 years.

“This is going to take longer than we thought,” he said. “You don’t build a community like this overnight.”

Both of the competing bids, said Willis, were “intricate, detailed, complex and of a very high quality.” Both also had strengths and weaknesses, he said.

But it was clear from Willis’s presentation, and later comments from Kristmanson, that RendezVous LeBreton’s decision to cover the planned LRT line that will bisect the site by 2018 gave it a huge advantage.

Willis said the five-member evaluation committee thought the decision to cover the LRT was “bold” and pivotal to RendezVous LeBreton’s development strategy.

The decision allowed the team to fully integrate the site on both sides of the LRT line, he said. By contrast, the DCDLS plan left the line uncovered, using a handful of crossings to link the two halves of the site.

Speaking later to reporters, Kristmanson said the LRT line created a design challenge for the site. “In the end, the RendezVous LeBreton group handled that challenge very well.”

Another committee concern about the DCDLS plan was that it placed its residential and commercial component south of the LRT and its district of museums and attractions to the north.

That division could leave the public spaces deserted and empty outside of peak tourist season, Willis said. And if some of the proposed museums and attractions were slow to materialize, there wouldn’t be enough there to animate the site.

By contrast, the committee liked how RendezVous LeBreton’s plan distributed residential and commercial components through five distinct neighbourhoods.

There was some concern about whether the new 18,000-seat arena, the future home of the Ottawa Senators, was sufficiently distinctive to create a new capital landmark.

That was an issue, as well, for some of the 8,000 people who provided feedback on the two plans, Kristmanson acknowledged. The public was divided on the issue.

But the committee thought the arena was architecturally impressive and liked its placement in the middle of LeBreton Flats.

The evaluation committee also gave high marks to the plan’s proposed Abilities Centre for disabled and able-bodied athletes, and said the inclusion of a significant amount of affordable housing was “a positive addition.”

On the other hand, the committee said RendezVous LeBreton was probably too optimistic in assessing demand for residential units and its retail component was too large.

NCC chair Russell Mills revealed that the board members were asked to come to Ottawa a day early for a technical briefing from the evaluation committee and a tour of the LeBreton site.

He said architect Jack Diamond and planner Mark Conway, both members of the committee, “said this was the best selection process they had ever been through in their careers.”

Louise Panneton, the project’s independent fairness monitor, told the board that, to date, “we have no concern with the way the NCC has administered the process in terms of fairness.”

Melnyk was predictably delighted by the decision, saying it will secure the team’s future in Ottawa.

Daniel Peritz, a spokesman for the DCDLS group, said his team respected the NCC’s decision, “but obviously, it’s not something we’re thrilled with. We thought (ours) was a great proposal. We’re just disappointed we didn’t win.”

Peritz said his group would take some time to reflect on the decision and decide over the next few days whether it wanted to remain as a participant.

Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson said he viewed the LeBreton development as transforming the city “from Ottawa the old to Ottawa the bold.” Lebreton, he said, “will be a destination for decades to come.”

Watson revealed for the first time that he privately believed RendezVous had the superior proposal. But if negotiations fall apart, he added, “we do have a realistic backup plan.”

Kristmanson, who called Thursday’s meeting “historic,” said the NCC would push Melnyk’s group in negotiations to make its anchor uses more national in nature and enhance the development’s integration with the surrounding community.

Environment Minister Catherine McKenna, who represents the federal Ottawa Centre riding that includes Lebreton Flats, said she’s “really excited” about the decision.

“It’s really important we get it right. It is the last remaining key piece of land in the city, and Lebreton has sat there for awhile, and we want to see an exciting development,” she said.

Somerset Coun. Catherine McKenney, who represents the area on city council, said she liked that the chosen proposal has an affordable housing partner and will be “built by district and (have) a neighbourhood feel.”

She said she wants to make sure that RendezVous will front-load community amenities in its first phase. “We have a blank slate. We should build something that responds to what people want.”

With files from Jon Willing

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...-redevelopment

[rocketphish]

LeBreton Flats: Results of public consultations

The National Capital Commission held a successful public consultation, from January 26 to February 8, 2016, to gather feedback on the proposals developed by the Devcore Canderel DLS Group and the RendezVous LeBreton Group.

The full public consultations report is available here.

The in-person consultation took place at the Canadian War Museum on January 26 and 27, and included an open house and presentations by both proponents, which could also be viewed online. Questions from the public were submitted in-person and online through social media channels. The public was invited to complete a survey on-site or online, to be returned by February 8.

The survey, conducted by Environics Research Group, included nine questions in total. As the majority of the questions were open-ended, text analytics was the selected methodology for reviewing and analyzing the responses submitted through the online consultation. In addition, verbatim comments were reviewed to ensure accuracy and provide a comprehensive view of the input received from the public.
Stakeholder consultation

In addition to public consultations, the NCC organized information sessions with members of the Algonquin First Nations and presentations of both proposals for 50 elected officials and their representatives.

Summary of public comments

Survey respondents were mostly pleased with proposals from both proponents, while expressing concerns about follow-through by the proponents.

Respondents also wanted to be updated and consulted on subsequent phases of the project.

http://www.ncc-ccn.gc.ca/capital-pla...-public-consul

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by Horus

I can't wait to get my aquarium season's pass! Pays for itself after the 14th visit!

I love the aquarium in Toronto, visited it 4 times already. Wouldn't care for a 2nd rate Ottawa aquarium.

[AndyZagg]

In the end I came around to the RV proposal and I'm glad they won. In part from reading some of the comments on here.

I'm excited for this development. We could really use a YMCA there though or a community center. The pressure on Plant Bath may burst it.

[McC]

RV should start talking to the French Public Board, the Y, and Farm Boy immediately. Those three items should get lifted from the DCDLS bid and incorporated ASAP. A Y and School could occupy space that RV's plans had allocated for retail, and that the NCC thought was overambitious/overoptimistic. I would expect that CCOC will try to co-locate a day care with their facilities, which would also always be needed. Senior-oriented housing like DCDLS proposed would also be welcome. I think it could be well-located as one of the buildings in the Pimisi (i.e. southeast) block; closest to the transit station, proposed/potential library location and the Good Companions Centre (or Hell, rebuild and expand the Good Companions Centre at the base of the building, again bringing different people for different uses at different hours of the day).

The hardest part I think will be get the office components built. Just look at the two sites from the last phase of LeBreton redevelopment that should have had 12 storey office buildings built by PWGSC (now PSPC) years ago, and reduced the isolation and starkness of the original yellow Claridge block: still empty and awful ("Bombed-out-Beirut" as Darwin calls those lots). Ditto the 4 still-unbuilt-but-approved 19-storey Place de Ville towers. How the Podium can be replaced without disrupting subway access would be a big concern for me if I had any expectation the there was demand for Brookfield to build any time soon.

[MoreTrains]

Originally Posted by McC

RV should start talking to the French Public Board, the Y, and Farm Boy immediately. Those three items should get lifted from the DCDLS bid and incorporated ASAP. A Y and School could occupy space that RV's plans had allocated for retail, and that the NCC thought was overambitious/overoptimistic. I would expect that CCOC will try to co-locate a day care with their facilities, which would also always be needed. Senior-oriented housing like DCDLS proposed would also be welcome.

I don't know why they would add in a YMCA with the Sensplex. I have to assume that the Sensplex will be more than just ice pads. And Im sure that there will be a grocery store, likely between Farm Boy or Whole Foods. As for senior oriented, there is a likelihood of this within the CCOC area, but also given the amount of time it will take to build the project, anyone who wants to buy there will be old by the occupation date.

Originally Posted by McC

Just look at the two sites from the last phase of LeBreton redevelopment that should have had 12 storey office buildings built by PWGSC (now PSPC) years ago, and reduced the isolation and starkness of the original yellow Claridge block: still empty and awful ("Bombed-out-Beirut" as Darwin calls those lots). Ditto the 4 still-unbuilt-but-approved 19-storey Place de Ville towers. How the Podium can be replaced without disrupting subway access would be a big concern for me if I had any expectation the there was demand for Brookfield to build any time soon.

There were towers proposed for PWGSC? And more Place-de-Ville towers too? Well, now I gotta look stuff up.

The thing I don't get, is that now according to the NCC slides, there will be another three years minimum of consultations with the City, Province, NCC, Feds and Aboriginals. Do they or do they not want this site developed? Nothing wrong with continued consultations, but what was wrong with the past year and a half?

[Jim613]

With the amount of housing being built in this proposal, what will the impact be on the abutting Little Italy, Chinatown, Hintonburg areas?

Will the areas see a slowdown or will developers still be targeting them for projects? I’m thinking projects in the Dows Lake area and on Parkdale for instance

[McC]

"slowdown?" it would be hard to go much slower. Since tall buildings don't conjure demand to occupy themselves, I don't imagine much happening with the 5 approved highrises on Parkdale, for example, anytime soon. Though I'd like to be proved wrong!

[Jim613]

Originally Posted by McC

"slowdown?" it would be hard to go much slower. Since tall buildings don't conjure demand to occupy themselves, I don't imagine much happening with the 5 approved highrises on Parkdale, for example, anytime soon. Though I'd like to be proved wrong!

Yeah, sorry,. I meant 'slowdown' in a sense of acquiring and planning by the builder. Not in terms of construction and sales

[coladin]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

... which are at least weekly... not to mention the Sensplex.. which will be quite busy almost every night of the week.


Of course... Skateboarders aside, I think most of us are looking forward to a weekly visit to the auto museum, but personally I can't see myself doing the aquarium more than twice a month...

I guess it is a moot point, but on a tourism level, Devcore would have been far superior. The auto museum, beer place, Ripley's, I guess to your point Calypso should be levelled by now as it has served its purpose as well, lol.

In any event, very safe, very boring, very "Ottawa" wins.

[coladin]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Why would they get all of the non-hockey revenue? Promoters of monster truck shows, concerts, ice shows, etc. would have two arenas to choose from. I would suspect CTC would still get a lot of the events that have an suburban or rural focus (acts that appeal to pre-teens, country shows, monster trucks shows, the circus) while a downtown arena would get shows aimed at teens, young adults, francophones, etc.

Devcore put the arena in Phase 3 of their proposal (2024-2031) so it doesn't seem like they're too eager to build it.

I don't think CTC would get many at all. Why would any promoter choose that arena over the new, downtown arena with LRT? It wouldn't take long for Melnyk to crumble, but I guess that is moot. I think they absolutely would have built the arena. Hockey is only 41 nights out of 365...and with the Cirque du Soleil connections there may have been a major tenant in this new arena that could have been more lucrative.

Anyways, at least something is getting done at Lebreton, wonder if they can tear down the mustard buildings while they are at it?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by AndyZagg

In the end I came around to the RV proposal and I'm glad they won. In part from reading some of the comments on here.

I'm excited for this development. We could really use a YMCA there though or a community center. The pressure on Plant Bath may burst it.

Another Y so close to the Downtown seems unlikely to me but a new community centre would seem a given, no?

[Mr.Flintstone]

After reading comments regarding RV winning (not on this forum but Facebook etc), I now see why Ottawa can't have nice things. The lack of knowledge people have toward the requirement and the proposal and the on going negotiation is fascinating. The general lack of understanding for city planing and development, I see why things don't progress sometimes.

[McC]

Originally Posted by coladin

I don't think CTC would get many at all. Why would any promoter choose that arena over the new, downtown arena with LRT?

you'd think so, but then bands that might be natural fits play the CTC during Bluesfest (I think Neil Young has done it twice in recent years, once with CSN and once solo). If the facility, ticketing, etc., give the promoter a sweeter deal, then I'd assume they'd take it. Moot point.