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  #1421  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2011, 8:22 PM
citywatch citywatch is offline
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Originally Posted by pesto View Post
Slum lords don't cause slums; liquor stores and discounters don't cause slums. They move there because the area is a slum and that is what is demanded there: low prices, which means inferior goods and services. Slum lords would be happy to raise rents and services if their tenants could afford to pay.

then more of the responsibility for broadway's embarrassing condition has to be placed on the shoulders of most of the street's customers.

However, I think you're being far too easy on the property owners. that's even more the case if they----at least a few yrs ago----were reportedly making more $$ on rent for stores along broadway than what landlords were getting in bev hills. If so, then simple laziness & greed must have prevented them from doing even basic upgrades & repairs to the front of their bldgs.

Based on what I've seen, read or heard through the yrs, broadway has been shabby & full of dives for yrs----before, during & after the various recessions & boom yrs that have occurred since before most of us were born.

Right now---& not even wondering what type of stores can or can't open up in the hood----I'll actually start feeling better & more hopeful about the street if more of it starts looking like this, a bldg on the west side of broadway south of 7th St...


maps.google.com

^ that's what I mistakenly assumed broadway was going to look like several months ago. I recall purposefully telling a friend to drive us down the street so I could show an out of town relative, who was visiting us at the time, the future potential of that part of dt. I instead became so embarrassed cuz much of broadway still is full of raunchy swapmeet stores. Enough of them to distract from the improvements that have taken place over the past few yrs.

the absentee landlords----or slumlords----have been able to leach off the street cuz there has been a long line of ppl willing to open & run divey stores. Those stores, in turn, have managed to attract enough shoppers to keep such dives in business. So it has been a vicious cycle. Therefore, the first step in making broadway less pathetic----much less making it decent or nice----is hoping that vicious cycle comes to an end.

btw, I read that the largest bloomingdales on the west coast was built in SF, around Union Sq, not too long ago. And a nordstrom's was built not too far from that store several yrs ago. So cities like SF never lost all their residents with $$, daytimers & tourists in the first place. I believe dt Seattle also didn't fall apart as much as LA did. And, of course, other cities like chicago & NYC never lost so much, or any, of their original wealth to begin with.

DTLA may have fallen apart even faster & further cuz so many ppl, instead of being as exasperated by broadway as I am, shrugged their shoulders & said "it can't be helped". Or they'd say "broadway is a different type of retail experience! It's funky & unique! So let SaMO be SaMO, SF be SF, NY be NY, & let broadway be broadway".

of course they'd say that & then head over to century city, the valley, SaMo, pasadena, or maybe fly off to SF or NYC. I'm thinking in particular of ppl in the local media.
     
     
  #1422  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2011, 9:01 PM
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Originally posted by Brigham Yen

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I just got back from a week for job training in Seattle (I work for Redfin now) and it was a nice experience staying and walking to work in Downtown Seattle. One thing that stuck out to me is that even though Downtown Seattle was quite dense and there were a lot of good infills, it didn't feel particularly bustling and many of the shops closed up "early" even though it was bright outside (you guys up there, higher latitude, get an hour extra daylight than us down here in LA). And I guess it wasn't as bustling because it's not a particularly large metro.
A couple of things.....yes, Seattle is not nearly as big as LA and we share the metro area with Bellevue and Tacoma which are about the size of Pasadena.....so the metro area's energy gets split up pretty much. At best, Seattle is a medium size city but has more name recognition than its size would suggest because its the biggest city in the PNW and because of the companies that are headquartered here.

Secondly, its summer.......after a particularly bad and long, long winter. People here like to mt. climb, bike, kayak, white water raft, etc. Given the winter, I would think the last place people want to be is downtown. Most of the people you saw probably live down there or are tourists. Come back during the holidays. There will be more bustle then. In fact, I was in Nike's and Macy's about two weeks ago......and I was surprised how dead it was. Summer is outdoor time in Seattle.........has to be when it rains most of the year.

Having said all that, with 1/5 the population of metro LA, metro Seattle definitely is smaller and will always seem much more small town to someone from LA. And it doesn't change nearly as fast as LA........that's why I mostly post here rather than on the Seattle forum.

As for the shops not open, I guess it depends on where you were. Most stores downtown stay open fairly late but to be frank, I really don't pay all that much attention to the hours. I would expect most retail closes around 8-9 from Thurs thru Sat.; earlier the rest of the week. I just checked Macy's: Sunday: 7 PM; Mon-Wed: 8 PM; Thursday: 9 PM; Friday: 10 PM and Saturday: 11 PM. Later than I thought...........frankly, I am not big on shopping.

Quote:
If I think about Downtown LA's future potential, it is huge. The fact that 6 rail lines funnel into downtown LA, comparable to chicago, and being part of a region of 18 million, Downtown LA could become a very vibrant center with tons of energy. I am hoping that we can have the same kind of infill like in Belltown and Queen Anne. I didn't get a chance to make it over to Capitol Hill, but I assume it's like our Silver Lake?
Yes, DTLA's future is huge. I would like to see more office bldgs go in........that would suggest its resuming its former and rightful role as an important commercial node for the metro area. I think that's coming in the next stage of its renewal. I wish it happened when I was there........it would have been fun to watch.

Capitol Hill is more like Dupont Circle in DC or Beacon Hill in Boston.....in terms of structures. Its one of Seattle's densest neighborhoods. Streets are more narrow. The bigger 'half' of the neighborhood [the western half] is mid rise apts; the eastern 'half' is more single family with apts interspersed. Lots of mixed use getting built, making the area even more dense. As I type this post, the LRT extension is tunneling through Capitol Hill and the city's second streetcar line will run from Capitol Hill to First Hill to Downtown Seattle. The population is a mixture of gay/straight/ university students.
     
     
  #1423  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2011, 9:07 PM
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Originally posted by Three Hundred

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hot gay guys with their tiny little dogs
LOL. Those dogs must be miniscule........barely visible to the naked eye.
     
     
  #1424  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2011, 9:18 PM
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Originally posted by LA Dreamin.........

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It's like New York City(Lady Gaga) is seen as classy, beautiful, sophisticated, raw and avant garde..while Los Angeles(Ke$ha) is beautiful as well but dirty/polluted, slow, don't give a F*$k, wild, immature and blah blah blah.

LOL. This forum is running downhill fast. First it was about skyscrapers, then mid rises, then the streetscape.......now we're talking about Lady Gaga and Ke$ha??? And you equated LA to Ke$ha.......now that's just cruel and downright snarky. Take it back!
     
     
  #1425  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2011, 9:34 PM
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Originally posted by tommaso

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I don't know a single person in the well to do sections of the West Side of L.A. who would even remotely consider the possibility of living in the filth of the urban sections of L.A. that us skyscraper enthusiasts appreciate. I am not advocating that every resident of Brentwood or Pacific Palisades consider uprooting and moving to DTLA or Hollywood. But, there is a clearly defined division in cultural and housing tastes that separates the well to do residents of the affluent areas of the Westside and their well scrubbed cousins in the DTLA/Hollywood urban core. These residents of the Westside and particularly in the communities located North of Wilshire, they do not want to be bothered with urban issues and they would abhor having to deal with the smell and noise that are typically associated with living in an urban landscape.
I wouldn't be so sure. When I lived in LA, a number of people I knew located to the West side because they could get their urban fix in Santa Monica or Venice. A renewal of DTLA provides an alternative that is far more real than Venice or SM......esp as the various districts like the Bank District and the Arts District expand and merge with each other.

In addition, I think DTLA is going to see a huge growth in its resident population for no other reason that its behind so many other big cities like Chicago or SF or NYC in this dept. I believe there is pent up demand that is just now starting to get tapped. I predicted it but few people in LA believed me when I lived that.

Very nice to see I am not totally crazy.
     
     
  #1426  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2011, 9:46 PM
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Originally posted by sopas ej

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I don't have children, but I still support paying taxes to fund public schools; it is, after all, an investment into the community; why should I surround myself with poorly educated youth? I don't resent that people with children get tax breaks, but, in my opinion, it makes more sense to tax people more, who have more children--instead of each child being a tax deduction, shouldn't each child mean more taxes charged? I mean, after all, each child potentially will be a student at a public school, each child means more resources having to be spent, each child means more of a carbon footprint, etc.
Some of my friends here are sending their kids to private school or are planing to; others to public school. What frustrates me are the biases that have developed against public schools even by those of us who were educated in public schools. Its particularly annoying in a city like Seattle which sees itself as so open minded and progressive. Enough said.......this isn't a forum on schools after all.
     
     
  #1427  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2011, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan View Post
Also, you are so off on the event stadium, its not even funny. we have gone over this numerous times on this board, but the event center is on the edge of the downtown periphery and is located next to a freeway and parking lots.
I bet nothing is as much a turnoff to more ppl than the parking lots & rundown properties that still exist throughout the hood. there may be a small number of ppl who see new devlpt & changes---inc the proposed stadium----as possible nuisances. But they're probably far outweighed by the ppl who still are hesitant about the hood cuz of the gaps & deadzones. So they'd be far more bothered by things like it taking over 7 yrs since Disney Hall was built to finally start filling in the location to the south of it.....

this shot is dated 5-4:


calvinfleming, flickr

this photo is dated 6-30, which means it shows about 2 months of work...


calvinfleming, flickr

Completing the LA Live area with something like a new stadium will help solidify that part of DT, while finally filling in all the land east of Disney, where the Related proj was supposed to have gone up a few yrs ago, will help solidify the northern part of dt. In the meantime, smaller----but no less important----projs like the broad museum will help keep a sense of forward motion.
     
     
  #1428  
Old Posted Jul 10, 2011, 11:27 PM
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Originally Posted by alki View Post
a number of people I knew located to the West side because they could get their urban fix in Santa Monica or Venice. A renewal of DTLA provides an alternative that is far more real than Venice or SM.
I was in SaMo a few wks ago & one advantage it has over DT is the thousands of ppl who like strolling along the oceanfront. There was a wide assortment of young & old, singles & families, of all racial, ethnic backgrounds, riding & walking along the pathway that parallels the ocean. however, SaMo still has a very burban vibe to me. It's nice, but by itself it's not enough.

for the longest time the only signs of supposed urban vitality in LA was SaMo & a few other hoods like old town pasadena, or some streets like melrose. But those are low key or lower density type of places & they have a small town feel about them. Again, they're nice, but they're not enough. IOW, the entire LA area has been in desperate need of a bigger city type of setting, but one that's doing well & attracting ppl in its own right.

The era before the revival of DT will be remembered in the future as the dark ages of LA & southernCal.
     
     
  #1429  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by Citywatch

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for the longest time the only signs of supposed urban vitality in LA was SaMo & a few other hoods like old town pasadena, or some streets like melrose. But those are low key or lower density type of places & they have a small town feel about them. Again, they're nice, but they're not enough. IOW, the entire LA area has been in desperate need of a bigger city type of setting, but one that's doing well & attracting ppl in its own right.
That's why I think in the end DTLA will be the place where LA urbanists want to hang out. At the present time, the districts I mentioned previously are somewhat separated but as DTLA grows and expands they will become interconnected probably through an extensive streetcar system. Whereas in Manhattan, you mostly jump on a subway to get from one end of the island to the other, DTLA people mostly likely will use the streetcar to cover the shorter distances.

SM, Old Pasadena, Melrose et al will not be able to compete IMO.
     
     
  #1430  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 2:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommaso View Post
I don't know a single person in the well to do sections of the West Side of L.A. who would even remotely consider the possibility of living in the filth of the urban sections of L.A. that us skyscraper enthusiasts appreciate. I am not advocating that every resident of Brentwood or Pacific Palisades consider uprooting and moving to DTLA or Hollywood. But, there is a clearly defined division in cultural and housing tastes that separates the well to do residents of the affluent areas of the Westside and their well scrubbed cousins in the DTLA/Hollywood urban core. These residents of the Westside and particularly in the communities located North of Wilshire, they do not want to be bothered with urban issues and they would abhor having to deal with the smell and noise that are typically associated with living in an urban landscape.
Well, I live right off of San Vicente in Santa Monica, near Brentwood. That's about as well to do you can get short of living in a mega-mansion on Sunset. Moreover, I want to live downtown. There you have it. You now know one person.

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Originally Posted by alki View Post
Originally posted by sopas ej
Some of my friends here are sending their kids to private school or are planing to; others to public school. What frustrates me are the biases that have developed against public schools even by those of us who were educated in public schools. Its particularly annoying in a city like Seattle which sees itself as so open minded and progressive. Enough said.......this isn't a forum on schools after all.
Well, that's just because the public schools in L.A. are absolute shit. The ones in Beverly Hills and Santa Monica are much better, and you have more wealthy people going to them.
     
     
  #1431  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 3:04 AM
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Originally Posted by BrighamYen View Post
845 S Figueroa Getting Major Renovation:



A bit farther south from that bldg, there is the former holiday inn, which was briefly mentioned in an article in today's paper....


Efrem Harkham, chairman of Luxe Worldwide Hotels, stands across the street from
the Luxe City Center Hotel in downtown Los Angeles.

Genaro Molina, Los Angeles Times

Quote:
The gig: Efrem Harkham, 55, is the founder and chairman of Luxe Hotels, a Los Angeles company that owns two local hotels and Luxe Worldwide Hotels, a management firm that oversees the operation of 200 independently owned hotels.

Worldwide: The company employs 315 workers and provides marketing, sales, reservations and other services for hotels in Europe, South America and the Middle East, as well as North America. Locally, it owns the Luxe Sunset Boulevard Hotel in West Los Angeles and the Luxe Rodeo Drive Hotel in Beverly Hills. It also runs the former Los Angeles Holiday Inn, renamed the Luxe City Center Hotel, across from Staples Center.
although the exterior still shows its humble, budget level origins, the new owner appears to run a more upscale business &, based on what I see on its website, is almost like a totally new hotel in the hood. I tended to ignore or forget about the location when it was a holiday inn, but the luxe seems different enough to make me think of it in a different light.

The old hotel reminded me of a place in the burbs, like in Torrance or Encino, or next to LAX. But the new hotel is aiming higher & at a more moneyed crowd. So based on the following pics, I'd say an old 1960ish bldg on Fig across from LA Live, can now be treated like it's an almost totally brand new part of the hood....


luxecenter.com


luxecenter.com


luxecenter.com

^ I'm not getting plug money for posting those, I swear. But I did feel I had to show repentance by inserting a positive thing about dt after posting so many downer pics of the ragged parts of broadway.
     
     
  #1432  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 4:10 AM
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Originally Posted by alki View Post
In addition, I think DTLA is going to see a huge growth in its resident population for no other reason that its behind so many other big cities like Chicago or SF or NYC in this dept. I believe there is pent up demand that is just now starting to get tapped. I predicted it but few people in LA believed me when I lived that.

Very nice to see I am not totally crazy.
I believe this as well. Downtown LA is very underestimated, and could be LA's biggest node if more rail lines converge there.

Granted, it will NEVER dominate it's metro area like how Manhattan or The Loop does. But if Measure R's projects as well as theoretical ones like a "Regional Connector II" (Washington station to Little Tokyo station via Alameda) are all built, it wouldn't surprise me if we start to see some mid-rises sprouting just outside downtown's borders (10, 110, and 101 freeways) not long after.

This is likely at least 20 years from now, but you get my point.
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  #1433  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 6:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ThreeHundred View Post
Lady Gaga is beautiful and classy? Since when? If you were to compare her to a city, it would probably be Vegas: stealing everything from everyone else and putting tacky shit on it. And don't get me started on that dirty whore Kesha. Anyway, I think LA as a whole is slowly maturing. I think during the 80's and 90's when LA was THE place to be, it was all about shopping and Rodeo Drive and Sunset Blvd. But now, LA is trying to transform itself into more than that. It's truly interesting to see where it goes from here.
she is beautiful.. ok maybe not classy but you know.. compared to kesha lol. gaga didnt steal anything from anyone.. she has always been her own thing... shes like the madonna of my generation's time...they can easily be compared.

anyways back on topic... LA in the 90's?? when tupac and all those gangs made LA the gang capitol of the world??? i dont think so. I think LA is the place to be NOW... i used to prefer being up in the bay area than here in socal... but ever since i learned more bout LA and her growing transit i've fallen in love with the city. And also the pomposity that exist up in SF is RIDICULOUS... the bay is this the bay is that...its a major turn off.
     
     
  #1434  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 7:03 AM
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Originally Posted by tommaso View Post
There is a certain belief that once the street car makes its way to Broadway, the transformation can take on a more comprehensive step towards receiving universal praise from its neighbors to the West, Beverly Hills, and its neighbors to the South, Newport Beach, Laguna Beach. Ultimately, whether we like it or not, it is the Eli Broads who will decide when downtown will officially arrive. I hope that can happen before 2020 and that includes getting a Nordstrom and preferably a Bloomingdale's built in downtown.
omg.. if DTLA gets a Nordstrom, Saks 5th Ave, or Bloomingdale's flagship store??? THAT is a very positive sign =] i love it!
     
     
  #1435  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 7:06 AM
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I feel that location is a poor choice for a condo development and the only reason it was ever proposed was because of easy money flowing from the banks. Logically that plot should be reserved for a hotel or some other tourism related development. Flower and Hope Streets are much better suited to residential development.
Residential is perfectly fine anywhere in downtown I BELIEVE. San Diego has residential units near petco park.. its not a problem
     
     
  #1436  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 7:16 AM
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I'm really disgusted by the way far too many properties on broadway have been treated through the yrs. I knew the street was faded & downscale, but I didnt realize just how bad it was.

I was caught off guard when visiting it directly several months ago, & then, yes, got a hard dose of reality when using google street view to get a better look at things. I admit to having never walked around the street, so that contributed to my original sense that it was more funky than trashy.

When ppl----at ssp or elsewhere---sounded like they were applying the standards of gentrifiers to broadway, I thought they were being overly dismissive of (or a bit snobby about) the current nature of the street. But the bldgs & storefronts are so miserable, they don't deserve any sympathy or patience. And the ppl who have been enablers to the slumlords also don't deserve respect at all.

The irony is that while I hope for the return of ppl who started abandoning broadway & heading to the burbs over 50 yrs ago, I also hope that many of the ppl who currently are keeping the swapmeets on broadway in business----& are among the enablers---will do just the opposite.

When you mention stores like bloomingdales & ppl like eli broad in the same breath with talk about broadway, I do admit to thinking that sounds like one of those naive "elitists" who ppl will roll their eyes at. btw, I don't think the hood----or certainly broadway----will ever have the ability to support such big money type of retail trade, at least not for a long, long time. But that doesn't offset my disgust for the absentee property owners on broadway. They should be ashamed of themselves & run out of town.
I agree... the broadway storefronts today just disgust me.. i didnt even bother visiting broadway when i went with my sister to the city and i didnt take her there because she was already amazed by everything west of broadway when i took her to bottega louie, angel's flight, nokia plaza, and pershing square(though i really wish it was still it's design with the fountain), i didn't want to hear her go "ewww this place is so dirty and ugly"... because SHE WOULD say something like that if she saw it.

I wish broadway could come back and become more of the upscale entertainment and shopping district of the city as it ORIGINALLY was. Would be so divine if the flagship department stores(Macy's, Saks, Nordstrom, Neiman Marcus and Bloomingdale's) was put on broadway or close proximity to it.
     
     
  #1437  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 7:26 AM
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What's blowing me away is that you are Navy Police and want to be a cop. Its turning my biases upside down and inside out in a way I never expected. Love it!
haha well what im saying is.. when i seperate from the navy.. i want to work for LAPD in downtown since i have police and tactics experience. If anything i dont have to work as a cop and just flip burgers u know? I could also seperate from the military and come back to San Diego and work at best buy or something.

But nope, I wanna do it BIG in Los Angeles
     
     
  #1438  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 7:48 AM
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then more of the responsibility for broadway's embarrassing condition has to be placed on the shoulders of most of the street's customers.

However, I think you're being far too easy on the property owners. that's even more the case if they----at least a few yrs ago----were reportedly making more $$ on rent for stores along broadway than what landlords were getting in bev hills. If so, then simple laziness & greed must have prevented them from doing even basic upgrades & repairs to the front of their bldgs.

Based on what I've seen, read or heard through the yrs, broadway has been shabby & full of dives for yrs----before, during & after the various recessions & boom yrs that have occurred since before most of us were born.

Right now---& not even wondering what type of stores can or can't open up in the hood----I'll actually start feeling better & more hopeful about the street if more of it starts looking like this, a bldg on the west side of broadway south of 7th St...


maps.google.com

^ that's what I mistakenly assumed broadway was going to look like several months ago. I recall purposefully telling a friend to drive us down the street so I could show an out of town relative, who was visiting us at the time, the future potential of that part of dt. I instead became so embarrassed cuz much of broadway still is full of raunchy swapmeet stores. Enough of them to distract from the improvements that have taken place over the past few yrs.

the absentee landlords----or slumlords----have been able to leach off the street cuz there has been a long line of ppl willing to open & run divey stores. Those stores, in turn, have managed to attract enough shoppers to keep such dives in business. So it has been a vicious cycle. Therefore, the first step in making broadway less pathetic----much less making it decent or nice----is hoping that vicious cycle comes to an end.

btw, I read that the largest bloomingdales on the west coast was built in SF, around Union Sq, not too long ago. And a nordstrom's was built not too far from that store several yrs ago. So cities like SF never lost all their residents with $$, daytimers & tourists in the first place. I believe dt Seattle also didn't fall apart as much as LA did. And, of course, other cities like chicago & NYC never lost so much, or any, of their original wealth to begin with.

DTLA may have fallen apart even faster & further cuz so many ppl, instead of being as exasperated by broadway as I am, shrugged their shoulders & said "it can't be helped". Or they'd say "broadway is a different type of retail experience! It's funky & unique! So let SaMO be SaMO, SF be SF, NY be NY, & let broadway be broadway".

of course they'd say that & then head over to century city, the valley, SaMo, pasadena, or maybe fly off to SF or NYC. I'm thinking in particular of ppl in the local media.
CityWatch i love you..... I too think Broadway needs better retail for shoppers. It has to start somewhere right?? Im pretty sure that if more high end retail is opened up on broadway the rich who live in those downtown skyscrapers will come and shop there rather than drive all the way to beverly hills or samo. Also out of town tourists, like myself, would have probably taken my family there for shopping.. rather than going to west covina mall. after visiting and having lunch in downtown, we hopped back in our car and left to the suburbs for the better retail.

Spread the word that downtown's broadway is opening or has opened up better retail and people will come and see and then they'll spread the word and so on, it probably won't happen right away but eventually people will starts flocking to downtown's walkable retail corridor like rodeo or samo... look at that hideous macy's plaza that attracts pedestrians to shop... imagine all those shoppers on broadway. It will also bring cleaning of the streets. it has potential to look like something out of SF's union square.
     
     
  #1439  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 12:20 PM
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  #1440  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2011, 4:13 PM
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Caught this tidbid in BlogDowntown's Around the Halls column this morning:

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Downtown property owners will pay nearly $660,000 toward the early-'90s redevelopment of Pershing Square this year under CF 10-1269, the ordinance setting the 2011-2012 assessment for bond repayment. Gas Company Tower pays the biggest assessment, at $144,000.

Source: BlogDowntown

So, the good news: Pershing Square is getting renovated. Yay!

The bad news: How far can $660,000 possibly go? Maybe they can do something about that ridiculous purple tower, and bring the landscaping into the 21st century. But these are cosmetic issues. The systemic problems with the park...namely the configuration of the parking garage ramps that severely limit access to the park, cannot possibly be resolved with this paltry sum. And I worry that this minor "renovation" will mean that a true renovation for Pershing Square will be off the table for a long time.

Thoughts?
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