Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Express691]

Few Changes I found by playing around with the URLs of the online schedules:

Changes to come for January 4, 2016:

403 NB 2508 trip on Saturdays short turns at Steveston at 5 road
410 additional SB PM Peak trip

[tybuilding]

http://www.surreyleader.com/news/360510271.html

by Jeff Nagel - BC Local News
posted Dec 3, 2015 at 3:00 PM— updated Dec 3, 2015 at 4:09 PM

B.C.'s minister responsible for TransLink showed signs Thursday the province might waver from its commitment to hold another referendum on any new transit tax if that's necessary to secure billions of dollars in federal government contributions.

Peter Fassbender told the Surrey Board of Trade the province will aggressively lobby the new federal government for B.C.'s share of money for transit and other projects in light of the incoming Liberals' pledge to make major infrastructure grants and the new federal infrastructure minister's indication that a more generous funding formula may be coming.

When an audience member asked the minister if he still stands behind the premier's promise that there be no increase in TransLink taxes without another vote, Fassbender said he wouldn't give an unequivocal answer.

"It's a different day today with a new federal government, with new opportunities. So we're going to find out exactly what the federal government wants to do," he said. "If we need to move quickly, we need to be prepared to move quickly."

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by tybuilding

"It's a different day today with a new federal government, with new opportunities. So we're going to find out exactly what the federal government wants to do," he said. "If we need to move quickly, we need to be prepared to move quickly."

Translation: There's an election in early 2017, and we need to buy some of the traditional NDP vote with spending on public transit.

[MIPS]

Bad news folks.
Former premier Bill Bennett has died. Precisely one week before SkyTrain's 30th anniversary.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/bill-bennett-died-1.3351863

[Express691]

But on a good note, Someone found this and posted it to CPTDB.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/98803376@N03/22763616399/in/dateposted/

Since im already here I'll post January's service changes for Conventional routes:

009 3:27 PM Peak trip to Main Street is cut

010 2 additional AM NB peak trips from Marpole loop at 0554 and 0609

019 additional EB trips from Kingsway at Joyce M-F

025 3 AM WB trips between King Edward @ Granville and Willingdon @ Canada Way are cancelled

027 has a trip leaving Joyce at 0615 but without any additional timestamps (Mistake perhaps?)

041 additional WB AM Peak trip leaving 0703 from Granville going to UBC. WB AM Peak trip at 0755 from Joyce is cancelled in return.
041 additional WB PM Peak trip leaving 0204 from Granville going to UBC.

044 additional EB PM Peak trip leaving 1712 from UBC.

084 AM WB trips at 0815 and 0828 are cut again

145 4 additional SB PM Peak trips

151 NB PM Peak trip 1519 (school) will not detour via Mariner.

247 to (Return to normal?) route from Montroyal Blvd straight onto Capilano Road

407 Last NB Weekday trip to leave at 10:46pm instead of 12:50 (2 trips cut)

403 NB trip from 2508 on Saturdays short turns at Steveston at 5 road

410 has 1 additional PM Peak SB trip

620 with its normal seasonal changes

A Few schedules have yet to be released such as the 027 Sunday and 144 NB weekend/Holiday service, 239 AM EB service, 246 NB Sunday Service,

Do buses on Pender Street to return to normal route along Pender between Seymour and Main? Vancouver schedules do not note the detour but the North Vancouver ones do.

[xd_1771]

Gonna post this now as I just discovered it while doing some research and we completely missed it.

Apparently just 5 days before we had our breakdown event in November,

Edmonton's LRT caught a wiring snag at about 10PM on Wednesday. This resulted in a closure that lasted over 24 hours (from Wed evening to Thurs evening) until the wires could be repaired. What's more, the initial closure happened just before the outpouring of an Oilers game.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonton/20...ntract-that-could-silence-community.html

I used the Seattle example in my write-up on last months' incident but this would have been a far more powerful example to use in any argument that we really don't have it that bad with SkyTrain... this is a far worse breakdown (24 hours!) than we have ever come across in SkyTrain history. Even the accidental birds nest one.

By the way I am still crossing my fingers that some of those XDE60s will come to Surrey depot... looking at CPTDB and it's said that 10 of the buses will indeed be going to STC and will be in service on the 96 B-Line.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Gonna post this now as I just discovered it while doing some research and we completely missed it.

Apparently just 5 days before we had our breakdown event in November,

I think you mean http://www.metronews.ca/news/edmonton/2015/11/25/edmonton-reviewing-lrt-communications-failure.html

Either way, even if you take the fatality argument out of surface light-rail, it's not immune from switching and communication failures as well.

The master argument around Vancouver needs to be "We need RAPID transit to connect all of Metro Vancouver", once that's done, then decide where secondary routes go. Getting a subway to UBC is a high priority, anything that isn't an extension of the skytrain will just result in no change to cars or buses, or further congestion. Surrey is undermining the ability for Rapid Transit to connect Langley and White Rock by insisting on light rail projects that doesn't improve mobility, and in fact makes it worse.

We shouldn't even be talking about LRT projects until the rapid transit routes are built out. When LRT ends up being the only "better than bus" option, it significantly impairs mobility. Calgary, Edmonton, Portland and Seattle all have far more problems simply because they are "light rail" posing as rapid transit, and they all rely on park-and-rides to operate as an extension of the car.

[ssiguy]

Rapid transit does not have to be grade separated to be fast or efficient. Calgary`s CTrain is very fast except thru the downtown core and most trips are going to downtown and not thru it.

Considering Calgary`s CTrain ridership is higher per-capita than Vancouver`s SkyTrain yet cost much less, I`m not sure Vancouver is in a position to talk.

LRT will do nothing in Surrey and will cost billions and yet be no faster than an advanced BRT and yet won`t be as flexible. A better use of funds would be suburban rail for suburbs to downtown-inner city and BRT thru the valley and along Richmond Connector, Alex Fraser, and completion of the HOV to WR.

One of the reasons there are so few buses on Alex Fraser and the Richmond Connector is the same reason why they were taken off the Port Mann..........due to the congestion and lack of bus lanes or HOV it was impossible to keep to any form of timetable.

[SOSS]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Rapid transit does not have to be grade separated to be fast or efficient. Calgary`s CTrain is very fast except thru the downtown core and most trips are going to downtown and not thru it.

True- speed is decent outside of the core mostly because city planners left ROW available along NW, N, NE, SE, S and W corridors as communities were built out.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Considering Calgary`s CTrain ridership is higher per-capita than Vancouver`s SkyTrain yet cost much less, I`m not sure Vancouver is in a position to talk.

A big reason for high ridership is that Calgary is very downtown centric (Metro Van has more urban centres) and downtown has very limited and expensive parking. Also, installation costs are higher for ALRT vs LRT however operational costs are much less.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

LRT will do nothing in Surrey and will cost billions and yet be no faster than an advanced BRT and yet won`t be as flexible. A better use of funds would be suburban rail for suburbs to downtown-inner city and BRT thru the valley and along Richmond Connector, Alex Fraser, and completion of the HOV to WR.

Agreed. The only two locations I can see LRT working in Metro Vancouver are where it was during the Olympics and in the long term along the Arbutus corridor.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

One of the reasons there are so few buses on Alex Fraser and the Richmond Connector is the same reason why they were taken off the Port Mann..........due to the congestion and lack of bus lanes or HOV it was impossible to keep to any form of timetable.

Correct me if I'm wrong - was there not a plan in place prior to the twinning and eventual replacement of the Port Mann to add queue jumping bus-only lanes and restart transit across the old 5-laner? The bridge deck itself had decent travel times, it was the queue to get onto the bridge that was horrible. Could Hwy 91 not have wider shoulders like Hwy 99 to provide bus-only traffic? This would be relatively cheap to dramatically improve transit and ideally get more people out of their cars.

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

By the way I am still crossing my fingers that some of those XDE60s will come to Surrey depot... looking at CPTDB and it's said that 10 of the buses will indeed be going to STC and will be in service on the 96 B-Line.

From what I've seen on CPTDB, apparently 12 will be going to STC ( 15001 - 15012 ) and 9 will be going to BTC ( 15013 - 15021 ).

[xd_1771]

Gotta hand it to the city of Sendai, Japan for opening the world's newest SkyTrain technology line on-time today and proving this technology continues to have huge potential around the world
This is the city that was hit hard during the March 11, 2011 Tohoku Earthquake and Tsunami. The completion of this new line is a huge sign of their progress and a mark of the city's vibrance and prosperity.

• Video Link

[Express691]

Skytrain single tracking between Scott Road and Gateway.

Set 246 was stuck just outside the outbound platform at Scott.

Announcements said "Track Maintenance". Saw no work being done at all. Its more like a "Problem Train".

They let 4 inbound expo trains pass between Columbia and Scott Road before my train (338) was able to reach Scott Road.

[ssiguy]

SOSS.............. Calgary is very downtown employment focused, another result of good planning. It is important to note that Calgary has the 2nd most expensive downtown parking rates in NA only bested by Manhattan. A very forward looking policy to encourage transit use to the downtown and came into effect in the late 1960s.

This forward thinking parking fee, extensive LRT for a city it's size, reserving ROW for LRT that may not happen for decades, closing down several city blocks downtown on 2 parallel streets with one for pedestrians and one for transit only, and fare-free downtown transit zone is a testament to Calgary's excellent transportation planning.

This is why I get a little tired of Torontonians, Montrealers, and Vancouverites constantly stating the endless sprawl of Calgary and how their cities put transit first. When it come to transit planning there is not a single city in this country that can look down on Calgary. There are no cities in NA that can teach Calgary anything about transit.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by Express691

Skytrain single tracking between Scott Road and Gateway.

Set 246 was stuck just outside the outbound platform at Scott.

Announcements said "Track Maintenance". Saw no work being done at all. Its more like a "Problem Train".

They let 4 inbound expo trains pass between Columbia and Scott Road before my train (338) was able to reach Scott Road.

Now it sounds like the wind has caused some debris from the construction near Surrey Central to blow into the outbound guideway and snag a train. Effectively the outbound track is closed from the switch before Scott Road all the way to King George.

They're doing turn-back trains at Scott Road for Waterfront, and running a shuttle train between Scott Road and King George.

[ssiguy]

^ Sorry for going off on a tangent but there are many {aka Suzuki and Price and co.} who' life purpose is to bash Calgary despite it having the best long-term transit planning of any city in the country which is why it's transit infrastructure has been relatively cheap to build. Forward planning not only makes infrastructure easier to build but also a hell of a lot cheaper.

Anyway, yes they could build HOV/bus-only lanes or at least bus queue jumper lanes on the Richmond Connector and Alex Fraser if they wanted to but won't.

The Canada Line project was suppose to include complete bus-only lanes all the way from Bridgeport to South Surrey but never got completed and of course after Campbell got his name in the history books for the Olympic, he "forgot".

I talked to Translink once about getting a bus or at least a rush hour bus from WR/SS to 16th Ave station in Nuwest and apparently they once had one but the ridership wasn't high enough. Of course that was 16 years ago and the population down here has doubled. He said that although there may be demand now there is no money to run the service and said that even if there was it would not be possible due to no bus lanes on 91A into Alex Fraser from north or south so it couldn't be done due to not being able to keep to a schedule.

[dpogue]

Now we have a tree down between 29th and Nanaimo, across both inbound and outbound guideways. No service between Broadway and Joyce, M-Line running segregated sevice turning back at Columbia.

[Express691]

Originally Posted by dpogue

Now we have a tree down between 29th and Nanaimo, across both inbound and outbound guideways. No service between Broadway and Joyce, M-Line running segregated sevice turning back at Columbia.

System resumed at 11:49pm, although its still single track between scott road and gateway

[Kisai]

http://www.cknw.com/2015/12/04/embattled...platinum-recognition-for-sustainability/

Vancouver, BC, Canada / News Talk 980 CKNW | Vancouver's News. Vancouver's Talk
Jon Meyer
December 04, 2015 12:29 pm
For all the criticism it endures, TransLink now says it has been recognized for its sustainability.

The agency has gained platinum status from the American Public Transportation Association.

TransLink is just one of four organizations in North America to receive the designation — and the first one in Canada.

The APTA looks at things like greenhouse gas emissions and energy management.

The transit authority has drawn fire on delays rolling out the Compass Card, mismanaging its budget, and overcompensating its senior executives.

See, media is still "even good news is bad news"

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Rapid transit does not have to be grade separated to be fast or efficient. Calgary`s CTrain is very fast except thru the downtown core and most trips are going to downtown and not thru it.

Considering Calgary`s CTrain ridership is higher per-capita than Vancouver`s SkyTrain yet cost much less, I`m not sure Vancouver is in a position to talk.

Ctrain is not immune from accidents and delays. This is why all the media whine about "aging technology" about the Skytrain is not only wrong but doesn't even compare to the poorer reliability record of Canadian cities running Light Rail Transit(LRT) instead of Rail Rapid Transit(RRT). Every time Surrey mentions Portland, I want to point to them any of the dozen recent videos of how Portland screwed up and ran trains through flooded underpasses.


Calgary 2013


Portland 2015

My beef with the c-train is not the technology or rolling stock, or if it's driver-driven. It's that every time someone wants to promote light rail, Calgary, and Portland are mentioned as good examples, without mentioning any of the much more damaging problems they endure not having 100% grade-separation where it mattered.

The irony with Portland is that that flooded underpass is how they grade-separated that track from the crossing, but apparently didn't design the drainage with capacity to prevent it from flooding.

Originally Posted by SOSS

Agreed. The only two locations I can see LRT working in Metro Vancouver are where it was during the Olympics and in the long term along the Arbutus corridor.

The only places that "make sense" for LRT are those that have no level crossings. So that means it either needs to be near the waterfront (expensive), or all the crossings have to be grade separated. The Olympics line was a street-car mode light rail, as there was no ATP signaling available to operate it. Even THAT had a collision.

"Since they put it in, the city had folks sitting at the crossing to get people to actually stop and they wouldn't," said Catherine Crough. "They would just mosey onto the tracks. There was a sense of entitlement and habit."

[s211]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

This forward thinking parking fee

There is no forward-thinking fee, per se, that is charged to drivers.

1) Prices that drivers pay are a function of the supply/demand imbalance in the very central core.

2) The land use plan is such that within a certain boundary, developers can only build 50% of the required parking stalls on-site. The other 50% is created by cash-in-lieu paid to the city, who in turn then builds parkades around the periphery of the downtown area.