Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

what has happened to adding live bus times to the bus stops? i know a few years ago those showed up down Main Street in Vancouver but i haven't really seen them anywhere else. they are like small versions of what the Canada Line has. is it a dead program? i thought it was quite a good idea.

I think it was only ever intended for the Main Street corridor.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

what has happened to adding live bus times to the bus stops? i know a few years ago those showed up down Main Street in Vancouver but i haven't really seen them anywhere else. they are like small versions of what the Canada Line has. is it a dead program? i thought it was quite a good idea.

As I recall, that was a pilot project partly paid for by the city and the province as part of a "Main St revitalisation". It was rather costly, including running power to every bus stop and the software and networking to actually track the times. There were no plans to extend it to other routes.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

what has happened to adding live bus times to the bus stops? i know a few years ago those showed up down Main Street in Vancouver but i haven't really seen them anywhere else. they are like small versions of what the Canada Line has. is it a dead program? i thought it was quite a good idea.

Originally Posted by GeeCee

I think it was only ever intended for the Main Street corridor.

The bus information on Main Street was part of the Urban Showcase Project which included features such as traffic signal priority for buses and bus bulges so that the buses didn't have to pull out of and then back into traffic.

If anyone ever decides to provide more funding for this sort of thing we may eventually see some of these features on other routes, but I suspect that the information signs will never proliferate beyond Main Street. They were designed in a short time window where real-time bus information had become available (so that the data required for the displays existed) but smart phones weren't yet commonplace.

Nowadays so many people have smart phones that can display real-time bus information that it's hard to justify the expense of these kinds of displays. Heck, even text-capable "dumb" phones can show when the next buses are coming just by texting the bus stop number (shown on every bus stop) to "55555".

[AMTDGT]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The bus information on Main Street was part of the Urban Showcase Project which included features such as traffic signal priority for buses and bus bulges so that the buses didn't have to pull out of and then back into traffic.

If anyone ever decides to provide more funding for this sort of thing we may eventually see some of these features on other routes, but I suspect that the information signs will never proliferate beyond Main Street. They were designed in a short time window where real-time bus information had become available (so that the data required for the displays existed) but smart phones weren't yet commonplace.

Nowadays so many people have smart phones that can display real-time bus information that it's hard to justify the expense of these kinds of displays. Heck, even text-capable "dumb" phones can show when the next buses are coming just by texting the bus stop number (shown on every bus stop) to "55555".

Yes, one of my kid's uses an app called Radar which I have now. Its cool as you see every busses position on the route e.g right now there are 8 buses on the #7 route 4 going down town, 4 going up to Dunbar. The thing that gets my daughter is often the bus spacing. She gets a bit po'ed in the morning because the busses on her route are space out on her route in pairs, with long waits in between the pairs. She always thought it now she sees it.

[Meraki]

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

The thing that gets my daughter is often the bus spacing. She gets a bit po'ed in the morning because the busses on her route are space out on her route in pairs, with long waits in between the pairs. She always thought it now she sees it.

When buses are running in sub-10 minute frequency all it takes is a traffic light or two to cause bunching. I see it as an opportunity to wait for the 2nd bus, which will usually have a lot more room available.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

The bus information on Main Street was part of the Urban Showcase Project which included features such as traffic signal priority for buses and bus bulges so that the buses didn't have to pull out of and then back into traffic.

If anyone ever decides to provide more funding for this sort of thing we may eventually see some of these features on other routes, but I suspect that the information signs will never proliferate beyond Main Street. They were designed in a short time window where real-time bus information had become available (so that the data required for the displays existed) but smart phones weren't yet commonplace.

Nowadays so many people have smart phones that can display real-time bus information that it's hard to justify the expense of these kinds of displays. Heck, even text-capable "dumb" phones can show when the next buses are coming just by texting the bus stop number (shown on every bus stop) to "55555".

It's funny how smart phones have made some other relatively new technologies and initiatives very short lived...Like those real time bus displays. Or how tablets have made the built-in car and plane video displays obsolete in just a few years...

[Xerx]

Not a surprise to anyone: bus drivers union opposes driverless busses.

Bus drivers union has issues with driverless technology
“Right now we just don’t see the viability of having a driverless bus in our system. We’re having a hard enough time focusing on whether or not we can get traffic lights to synchronize properly, never mind having a bus navigate the city without a driver,” says Nathan Woods, president of Unifor Local 111, which represents transit operators in Metro Vancouver.

Source: Mike Lloyd, News 1130

[Express691]

Originally Posted by Meraki

When buses are running in sub-10 minute frequency all it takes is a traffic light or two to cause bunching. I see it as an opportunity to wait for the 2nd bus, which will usually have a lot more room available.

Adding on, it gets complicated when you have different routes on 1 corridor all buncheed up, especially when theyre all trolleybuses. Hastings street is prone to this.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Meraki

When buses are running in sub-10 minute frequency all it takes is a traffic light or two to cause bunching. I see it as an opportunity to wait for the 2nd bus, which will usually have a lot more room available.

Bus schedules by their very nature are unstable. If there are any disturbances, the buses will tend to get further and further from their scheduled time - it's like trying to balance a ball on the top of your head - the further away from the centre it gets the harder it is to keep it where it's supposed to be.

If a bus is delayed for some reason (congestion at a traffic light, long waits for many passengers or disabled passengers that requires the ramp to be lowered) then it will be slightly behind schedule. If it's slightly behind schedule then chances are there will be a few more people waiting at all the subsequent stops, which then requires to bus to dwell at stops longer, which puts it further behind schedule, etc. etc.

In the meantime, the following bus will tend to see fewer people at each stop because there's less time between it and the bus ahead. So it will spend less time picking up and dropping off people, which means it will tend to get ahead of schedule.

When this plays out you end up with the two buses bunched together.

This is why you can't run buses with frequencies shorter than a few minutes - the higher the frequency the more pronounced this issue becomes because any given delay is a much bigger proportion of the interval between buses, so they are much more likely to bunch up. And that's why it's not really practicable to add more buses to the Broadway B-Line to attempt to increase capacity.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Xerx

Not a surprise to anyone: bus drivers union opposes driverless busses.



Source: Mike Lloyd, News 1130

While I'm certainly fond of the idea of driverless technology, I want to quickly point out the problem isn't that they are driverless, but that politicians will use it as an excuse to have less transit. Somehow politicians believe that driverless cars will allow more cars to fit in the same road space.

Driverless cars and buses would actually increase the safety of "at grade" light rail... provided you get rid of all the people-driven cars down the same road. It's the removal of human drivers which makes it safer. A driverless electric BRT would make a hell of a lot of sense.

So no surprise when bus drivers have a problem with this.

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Express691

Adding on, it gets complicated when you have different routes on 1 corridor all buncheed up, especially when theyre all trolleybuses. Hastings street is prone to this.

with Hastings, do they use both sets of trolley lines anymore? i know there there are 2 sets though i do venture there much so not sure if they use them.

it seems like that would help if there is an express bus of some kind since they don't get stuck behind the one that stops every block.

[Mac Write]

The hastings "Express" wires are no longer used (other then dead heading).

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

with Hastings, do they use both sets of trolley lines anymore? i know there there are 2 sets though i do venture there much so not sure if they use them.

it seems like that would help if there is an express bus of some kind since they don't get stuck behind the one that stops every block.

There are actually 5 sets of wires on Hastings between Cassiar and Renfrew. One set in each direction is for local trolleys, another set in each direction is for the #34 Hastings Express, which used to run non-stop between Kootenay Loop and Main Street, and the fifth set is a pullout for special PNE trolleys so that others can pass while they're boarding and unboarding. I once heard that this stretch holds the record in North America (and perhaps the world) for the most number of trolley lines on one street.


(Image from the Buzzer Blog)

The #34 Hastings Express is long gone, and trolleys are no longer used for special PNE services, so only the local wires are in use these days. The only time the other wires get used is when the occasional charter takes them, and when that happens you'll see a lot of sparks flying from the trolley shoes because of all the debris that builds up on the wires over time. (You can also see this when the first trolleys venture out on a frosty morning).

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by Kisai

Kenneth Chan actually spends the time to do the research, and his stuff is pretty much the only articles from Vancity Buzz that I ever see. Much of the other stuff on the site is click-bait that isn't terribly interesting.

In the case of this article, it feels kinda like Kenneth Chan cribbed a few details from Daryl, or from SSP, because the timing seems a little coincidental, and a lot of the information here tends to go around in circles every time the media blows it.

Yeah, Kenneth is a good guy and I am sure he spends a good amount of time in here. I would also bet money on him being a forumer in here, as so many of his stories do indeed coincide with our discussions in here. Nothing wrong in that and if his articles get more attention to the facts, the better. Keep it up, Kenneth!

Disclaimer: I am not him, though.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Yeah, Kenneth is a good guy and I am sure he spends a good amount of time in here.

At any rate, I put this together to give context to the entire Patrick Condon load of misinformation about Skytrain he gave Global as a sound bite.
• Video Link
There way too many pieces of video I could have used from Jarrett Walker, I had to cut most of it, but I think I left the argument intact.
a) The argument is between "Urban designers", eg architects and Transportation planners
b) PC's argument is "street cars everwhere", everyone should live within 5 minutes of everything they ever want to do. Rapid Transit works against Sustainable Communities.
c) JW's argument (isn't strictly about Vancouver, the video pieces I used are from Oklahoma, where he does mention Vancouver, and another piece from a Toronto seminar) is that PC's argument doesn't increase access, in fact it cripples it.

I pulled out http://www.surreyleader.com/news/195701621.html again because of this quote

Surrey Coun. Barinder Rasode said council definitely wants light rail, not just express-bus BRT, on King George to densify that corridor, in line with city plans.

"We've been very clear that our option would be LRT, not just because of the cost but because it is less intrusive to the community," Rasode said.

Light rail passengers riding at street level would be more likely to stop and shop at Surrey businesses, she said, than an overhead Skytrain whisking residents to other cities.

"It's about economic investment in our own city," Rasode said. "We don't want mass rapid transit running right out of the city every time. We don't want people to just be transported straight out to Langley."

See there's the Urban design argument rearing it's ugly head.

[xd_1771]

Looks like passengers at Lougheed will indeed be using the new platform to board Evergreen trains to Douglas. These trains will then indeed wrong-rail until switch #1.

[trofirhen]

Has this already been posted? Moral support for all those wanting the Broadway rrt as first priority.
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2013/03/mayor-robertson-ubc-broadway-subway-would-canada-line-ridership/
Better take it to Ottawa ASAP. The requests are filling up for infrastructure.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Has this already been posted? Moral support for all those wanting the Broadway rrt as first priority.
http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2013/03/mayor-robertson-ubc-broadway-subway-would-canada-line-ridership/
Better take it to Ottawa ASAP. The requests are filling up for infrastructure.

That article is from 2013

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by officedweller

That article is from 2013

as I said elsewhere ...

[afreak]

New SkyTrain cars was seen sitting in the yard this morning with lights on.