DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by rds70

Initial massing study for the project planned along Stout between 22nd and Park Avenue West. Each of the three towers will be 25 stories (268 feet) with a total of 848 units. The architect is Perkins + Will. The developer is CMK:

Recent state of this half-block (photo by me):



edit: I haven't posted a photo here in about five years, ha, no idea how to do it correctly anymore.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by bunt_q

Recent state of this half-block (photo by me):



edit: I haven't posted a photo here in about five years, ha, no idea how to do it correctly anymore.

A lovely site. All we need to do is spend another hundred million a year on homelessness and the issue will surely be solved.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Wait a second. So there’s this project at Stout, the Evolve towers proposal at Champa, and the two-tower project at California. That’s seven towers that could be going up in a two-block area.

Wow.

...and all with the same height as well? Imagine if there wasn't a height limit in this neck of the woods - I think D-AS maxes out at a 7.0 FAR if you do design review. I still don't get why we do FAR limitations for downtown areas in this country. If anyone has the wisdom to explain this to me, please do.

[TakeFive]

Density Proposed Along the Avenue

80 Rental Units Proposed for East Colfax
February 27, 2023 - Mile High CRE


View of Adams St. to Cook St. on Colfax Ave., courtesy of Paradise Land Co.

According to concept plans submitted by Denver-based architecture firm The Mulhern Group to the City and County of Denver, Paradise Land Company has proposed the construction of two residential buildings at 3300-3310 E. Colfax Ave. (the former site of Paradise Cleaners) that will provide a combined 80 rental units. 70 of which will be micro-units (550SF) and 18 income restricted.

A six-story building is proposed on the site at Adams Street and East Colfax Avenue and a a three-story building is proposed on the adjacent parcel at Cook Street and East Colfax Avenue.

Buzz Geller Alert

According to property records, Buzz Geller, managing partner at Paradise Land Co., and David Paderski purchased the property at 3300-3310 E. Colfax Ave. for $350,000 in 1979.

How many of you can recall Buzz purchasing this property back in 1979?

[TakeFive]

Interesting Updates

How many recall the construction of 1755 Blake Street? Ken/DenverInfill does:

New 1755 Blake Rendering
January 23, 2008 - DenverInfill


Image courtesy of Unico Properties

Unico Announces Interior/Exterior Improvements, Two New Leases to 1755 Blake Street
February 27, 2023 - Mile High CRE

Building on its mission of developing innovative, people-focused building experiences in the city of Denver, Unico Properties LLC, recently announced a total upgrade to its downtown Denver office building, 1755 Blake Street, with the addition of two new leases. Bocce-bar concept Lob Denver will occupy the property’s ground floor, while online payment platform Melio has moved into the 3rd floor.

Coors Family’s Five-Block Downtown Golden Property Newly Branded “Clayworks District”
February 27, 2023 - Mile High CRE

AC Development, a privately-owned real estate company launched in 2020 by the Coors Family, has announced the launch of Clayworks, the new brand for the planned mixed-use district in downtown Golden previously known as the CoorsTek 9th Street Redevelopment. Clayworks will be an extension of downtown Golden, welcoming the community back to this historic site for the first time in well over a century. The Golden City Council unanimously approved the Clayworks vision and plan last year.

Designed by Tryba Architects, the deeply sustainable new district will be located on over 12 acres of land owned by the Coors family. The site has been home to CoorsTek’s technical ceramics manufacturing and research facilities since 1910, but AC Development will soon transform this area into a dynamic five-block district with cutting-edge office spaces, a boutique hotel, distinctive apartments, and outstanding food and beverage — all rooted in the beautiful context and lifestyle of Golden.

Anybody (besides me) tour the Coors Brewery back in the mid-1960's?

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Does anyone know what is going on at 1199 Bannock St? That is the site of the proposed 30 story residential tower in GT. I haven't seen recent permitting activity but the site is fenced off now.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Anybody (besides me) tour the Coors Brewery back in the mid-1960's?

I think you're about 40 years too early for most of the older people here.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by SirLucasTheGreat

Does anyone know what is going on at 1199 Bannock St? That is the site of the proposed 30 story residential tower in GT. I haven't seen recent permitting activity but the site is fenced off now.

Demo permit was issued for the site. Concept plan was recently updated, but the building isn't further in the development process.

[EngiNerd]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

I think you're about 40 years too early for most of the older people here.

Maybe not quite 40 years, the legal drinking age was like 8yrs old back in the 60s wasn't it?

[SirLucasTheGreat]

Thanks for the update on 1199 Bannock. Driving up the four blocks from Speer to 13th Ave on Bannock, I spotted at least six development sites with some sort of activity just on Bannock. It looks like there's a lot of movement of the SE corner of 12th and Bannock.

[TakeFive]

Just Curious?

Originally Posted by wong21fr

I think you're about 40 years too early for most of the older people here.

So, was Paradise Cleaners Buzz Geller's primary source of income back in the day and thru the years?

According to concept plans submitted by.... Paradise Land Company has proposed the construction of two residential buildings at 3300-3310 E. Colfax Ave. (the former site of Paradise Cleaners) that will provide a combined 80 rental units.

Per the Denver Post back in May of 2013

A corporate officer of Denver-based Paradise Cleaners has purchased a 50 percent stake in the dry-cleaning business. Matt Linkow, who serves as chief executive officer of Paradise, bought the shares previously owned by David Paderski. Terms were not disclosed.

The other 50 percent of the company continues to be owned by Denver businessman Buzz Geller.

Note -- Many may have been aware of Buzz's background but since he's been subject of much notoriety on this site going way, way back, I thought it worthwhile to connect the dots.

Originally Posted by EngiNerd

Maybe not quite 40 years, the legal drinking age was like 8yrs old back in the 60s wasn't it?

IIRC, this was the summer following my Junior year in HS and the three of us were underaged for enjoying samples at the brewery. We would have been 17 yrs old. However, I do believe we got served up in Central City. But yes, for so-called 3.2 beer, 18 was the legal drinking age.

[TakeFive]

Urban Density versus the Suburbs - another reason to hate the suburbs?



American workers aren’t returning to the office like their international counterparts—here’s why
Mar 2 2023 By Jennifer Liu - CNBC

U.S. office occupancy remains stagnant around 40% to 60% of pre-pandemic levels, varying by month and by city, according to data from the commercial real estate firm JLL and reported by The Wall Street Journal.

Meanwhile, office attendance has returned to 70% to 90% in Europe and the Middle East, and around 80% to 110% in some Asian cities

And the answer is?

Americans are more likely than people throughout Europe and Asia to live in the suburbs and have bigger homes, making it more appealing to work from home.

And the prediction is?

A 50% average office attendance rate could become the new norm for American workers, says Owl Labs CEO Frank Weishaupt...

One certainty: Americans will never view the purpose of the office in the same way, says John Gates, JLL CEO of Americas Markets

Point One

One usually overlooked dynamic (here) is the role of the family. For those of you 'in the know' Mama usually makes the decision on where to live (which can include work location). Suburbs are top of mind for most families. It's why Central Park has been so successful and is popular among families.

Point Two

Currently (sadly) urban areas are often seen as having higher crime which again play's to Mama's decision on where to live. While crime (in metro Denver) is everywhere, the perception is that suburbs are safer including Central Park, Wash Park etc.

Given the priorities of families the schools are central to Mama. Even with Denver Schools lower density neighborhoods with more families are seen as better places to live.

Be careful what you ask for?

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Currently (sadly) urban areas are often seen as having higher crime which again play's to Mama's decision on where to live. While crime (in metro Denver) is everywhere, the perception is that suburbs are safer including Central Park, Wash Park etc.

Given the priorities of families the schools are central to Mama. Even with Denver Schools lower density neighborhoods with more families are seen as better places to live.

Be careful what you ask for?

You say some weird stuff. If you are counting Wash Park as a "suburb," then what are you counting as "the city"? Denver doesn't exactly have a giant urban core full of neighborhoods that are not single-family. If you're saying "Mama doesn't prefer to live in a high rise with her three kids," I am not sure many would disagree. But that's not the choice Mama makes in Denver. If you're saying "Mama would rather live in Aurora than a 2,500 square foot bungalow in a core Denver neighborhood," I think you're nuts. That's where your Mama looks at your Daddy and says, "go make us some more damn money so I can afford to live where I want to live."

At least, in your 1950s hypothetical.

... which is why I can open up my realtor app now, and plug in a quick 3 bed/2 bath search for Mama in a radius around my current location and see... lowest, $1.18 million, most well over $2 million... go east a bit...lots of $1.4-1.8 million... scroll toward Wash Park and I am seeing mostly $3.0 million... swipe back to the west, finally I see some $900k houses in those closer high crime neighborhoods...cross I-25 and crap, I am back in a sea of $1.4-2.3 million... complete my loop, finally, I see some $700k stuff way out northeast on the low end (but still plenty of $1.1 million for Mama to choose from)... it's all looking REALLY UNDESIREABLE. A real exodus. That, or our crime wave is creating an awful lot of wealth in the city. Fentanyl driving high-paying jobs? There's my old 2 bed/1 ba 1,100 sf 1946 ticky-tacky asbestos box, which the app tells me is somehow worth $650k (probably the beige siding scrape 3,800 sf monstrosity for $1.8 million across the street driving that math)... the suburbs must be REALLY expensive if this is what the ghetto costs. Damn.

I just can't reconcile your comments with the other perception in Denver that if you can't afford the city, you are stuck moving to the suburbs. You must know something the invisible hand of the free market is getting terribly wrong. Any stocks you'd recommend I buy? Or would your investment advice be to buy farm land in Bennett to get ahead of the next wave?

[gopokes21]

Can anyone who tracks projects point me toward a listing of all development underway in Globeville and Elyria-Swansea?

[gopokes21]

Originally Posted by laniroj

When I say Denver, I'm really talking about the center city and maybe one ring of the original 1890's suburbs...call it york to federal, I70 to speer.

Plenty of new license plates, yes, but that's not my point, which is that those I know living in the center city are leaving.

I have a ton of friends who fall in this category of recently leaving downtown. However they all miss downtown or Cap Hill. The reason they left is just growing old and making more money, and wanting to buy a house with a yard. We're all in our 30 and 40s now and partied out.

It's just the cycle of life, but there appear to be more than enough Gen Z folks moving to Denver to take our old places in Cap Hill, Five Points, or elsewhere around downtown. I for one didn't go far as I own in Congress Park.

[laniroj]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Point Two

Currently (sadly) urban areas are often seen as having higher crime which again play's to Mama's decision on where to live. While crime (in metro Denver) is everywhere, the perception is that suburbs are safer including Central Park, Wash Park etc...

It's not a perception, it's reality. Denver's violent crime rates ended 2020 at something like 850/100k. Colorado as a whole is 400/100k and the Springs is 600/100k. Denver has more violent crime and it's increasing in the direction of levels not seen since the mid 80's and early 1990's from our 'war on drugs'. This is not a good thing and it's why the entire mayoral debate is centered around crime and homelessness (no I am not linking or decoupling those two things).

IMO, the same reason people I know are leaving Denver (crime, homelessness in front of their house and in their alley and through their car) is the same reason companies are leaving downtown for RiNo, DTC, Lone Tree. Hopefully city government in Denver can get a handle on crime, but I'm not holding my breath. Also, it's not just Denver because most urban cities are experiencing the same trend.

Also, I find it slightly suspicious that crime in Denver really started to increase nearly EXACTLY when mary jane was legalized. The skunk invaded in January 2014 and 2014 is the first year when crime began it's meaningful trend upward. Maybe there's a correlation, maybe not. History will tell us so long as AI isn't writing it by then.

[DUPio]

We were already getting priced out of the "nicer" areas of Denver when we left in 2019 for Phoenix. I'm talking places where you could have ~2500 sqft SFH with a yard and reasonably safe/enjoyable place to walk. We would have loved to live in Wash Park, Platt Park, Congress Park, Highland, etc etc but couldn't afford it back then despite being a 2 income household both making decent incomes. I look at prices now and those same places are so far out of reach it's laughable. Basically 7 figures for anything in those areas that isn't a tear down or on a busy street. Perhaps people living in Union Station/Cap hill who are looking to buy a home are "leaving" to go out into the suburbs but they are replaced by the next wave of young people. And those families like us that left are replaced by even higher net worth families who come in and CAN afford those nicer areas. People are still obviously flocking to live in Denver, especially in this work from home environment where a CA techie or a NYC banker can bring those salaries. It's a shitty reality for those of us who have worked hard hoping to live in those areas and can't afford it, but hey no one is entitled to live in those places. We left since a nice house in Phoenix/Scottsdale was much cheaper and physician salaries are significantly better in AZ. Didn't seem worth it to go live in Firestone. If it's hard for us, 2 working professionals who feel reasonably successful to afford something "urban-adjacent" then don't be surprised when other typical families have to leave the city proper if they ever want to own a house. If it ever came back to Earth then we would move back, but in the meantime it's hard to justify that when Phoenix is actually pretty nice 8 months a year and we bought a house before things went crazy. I suspect its a similar scenario for many families who want to live close to the urban amenities but reality sets in and they end up in Parker. It's not an "exodus", it's supply and demand. And demand is still very high.

[TakeFive]

Briefly

Originally Posted by bunt_q

You say some weird stuff. If you are counting Wash Park as a "suburb," then what are you counting as "the city"?

At least, in your 1950s hypothetical.

I just can't reconcile your comments with the other perception in Denver that if you can't afford the city, you are stuck moving to the suburbs. You must know something the invisible hand of the free market is getting terribly wrong.

I appreciate it's hard to read people's minds - especially mine.

There's no reference in my post to housing costs. That's a whole different topic. But you were close when you referenced the 1950's.

When I moved to talking about families you could call it the history for how cities developed (generally outward) and how important the 'family' was to what happened and how important schools were to each neighborhood or area. There's always been more affluent areas and more affordable areas but regardless of one's lot in life all families ie parents want what is best for the children. They identify with their neighbors and their neighborhoods and schools have long been a magnet and of key importance.

With respect to urban and suburban, downtown Denver has always been the urban core of the whole metro area. That said there were other cities that also developed outside of Denver but the same dynamics played out for how cities developed. They were driven by young families moving into new developments and their neighborhood schools.

Originally Posted by gopokes21

Can anyone who tracks projects point me toward a listing of all development underway in Globeville and Elyria-Swansea?

There was a couple (husband and wife) that bought in RiNo, then flipped their land (and plans) and bought in Elyria-Swansea with nice semi-affordable plans. Not sure what or where that is at. Seems I recall a Moore family descendant being involved also.

[UrbanRoy]

Anyone hear anything about 17th and California? Stumbled on this quote on the architect's website. "This 44-story high-rise located on the southwest corner of 17th and California street in Denver, CO would have (my emphasis) brought new height to the Denver skyline with beautiful amenities and views." Doesn't sound promising... and that was one of my favorite new developments.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by DUPio

If it ever came back to Earth then we would move back, but in the meantime it's hard to justify that when Phoenix is actually pretty nice 8 months a year and we bought a house before things went crazy. I suspect its a similar scenario for many families who want to live close to the urban amenities but reality sets in and they end up in Parker. It's not an "exodus", it's supply and demand. And demand is still very high.

Ugh. It's the other 4 months of the year that makes me leery of AZ and the slow transition towards, "it's pretty nice 4 months of the year."

My brother likes the Scottsdale, though. Keeps on trying to convince me to move there.