Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by delts145

Why Salt Lake views new 700-room hotel as a ‘game changer’ as it nears opening

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2022/8/...ty-salt-palace

Still super bummed the hotel has a mere 700 rooms. Hard to call it a game changer.

[meman]

Ive also wondered also why the hotel was built with only 700 rooms. Wasen't is orginally supposed to have at least a thousand rooms?

Still I think it is one of the sharpest looking buildings to be built downtown in many years. It sure puts the Mariottt and that awful Holiday Inn express to shame.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by meman

Ive also wondered also why the hotel was built with only 700 rooms. Wasen't is orginally supposed to have at least a thousand rooms?

Still I think it is one of the sharpest looking buildings to be built downtown in many years. It sure puts the Mariottt and that awful Holiday Inn express to shame.

In order to ensure that there were enough meeting rooms and ballroom space, plus the public amenities (market & restaurants), this limited the design. One criteria was to avoid a square box or an "L" shaped building. Without the "L", there was no way to hit 1,000 rooms in the 375' limit placed by the City. a 1,000 room hotel with the same design would have come in between 450' and 500'. So DDRM went with a good round number that fit within the height restrictions.

Now, it is my belief that the 300 room deficit from the original plan does help to see why even through multiple revisions, The West Quarter's phase 2, still has a hotel with around 300 rooms.

The "Game Changer" portion is having the hotel directly connected to the Convention Center and including meeting space and ballrooms that are controlled by the Convention Center rather than the hotel. This allows event planners to place a single contract for the meeting space in the Hotel and the Convention Center rather than negotiate 2 contracts. This is rare to happen in the industry.

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by Makid

The "Game Changer" portion is having the hotel directly connected to the Convention Center and including meeting space and ballrooms that are controlled by the Convention Center rather than the hotel. This allows event planners to place a single contract for the meeting space in the Hotel and the Convention Center rather than negotiate 2 contracts. This is rare to happen in the industry.

Sure, obviously this hotel will be very efficient for event planners and staff, but who else is cheering?

Maybe I’m just a sour puss, but the results of this whole CCH feels like “yay, we did the bare minimum!”

[TheGeographer]

You mean to tell me there if it wasn’t for the 375 ft height restriction they may have built a taller tower?

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

Sure, obviously this hotel will be very efficient for event planners and staff, but who else is cheering?

Maybe I’m just a sour puss, but the results of this whole CCH feels like “yay, we did the bare minimum!”

While it may seem minor, this is a big deal for the events industry. Also, the bare minimum would have been 500 rooms. Also, the design of the hotel is well above the minimum. Discounting the number of rooms, would you rather have our CCH or Phoenix's or Denver's? I am also happy we didn't end up with an "L" shape as this would have created both a N/S wall and an E/W wall.

If you need to some reinforcement of the cheering for the hotel, look no further than Outdoor Retailers. I can easily guarantee that without the CCH they would not have returned to SLC.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

You mean to tell me there if it wasn’t for the 375 ft height restriction they may have built a taller tower?

Yes, without the 375' height limit, the CCH would have been taller.

There were numerous early draft plans for the CCH with rooms ranging from 700 (what we got) up to 1,200 rooms. The 1,200 room option was dropped when the southern site was selected. 1,200 rooms only worked for the north location. With the south site selected, early sketches were made for 700, 800, and 1,000 room hotels.

The County had wanted the corner to be shifted to D1, the City preferred the overlay with a 375' max. Once this was selected by the City the taller options were dropped. The maximum number of rooms with the current design, just being taller, was 745. After discussions, it was found that 45 rooms in a CCH would have no impact on the decision to choose a convention/meeting location. So, this locked in the 700 room count.

For what was missed, the 1,200 room north location was estimated to be around 550'. The 1,000 room south location was estimated as up to 500'.

Overall, while it can be easy to lament what wasn't built, I am glad for what we got. I know that this has already caused many new conventions and meetings to be booked in SLC over the next 10 years as well as the return of OR.

I also think that by not pushing back against the height limit not only helped to get the project built as soon as it was, it will also help other hotel developments to be successful.

[TMoneySLC]

Originally Posted by Ironweed

I've been worried about this as well. What kind of issues have been reported that you can share?

The issues I’ve heard about center around electrical and plumbing issues mainly and the management company using easy patches rather than addressing the main issues. As well, when I’ve been in there the hallways have been rather dingy. Stains on the carpets, holes in walls from people moving carelessly, etc. I also have one friend who has been dealing with a sliding balcony door not working for over a month at Maven West.

[Atlas]

I mostly like the CCH that we got (except the north and west-facing blank walls) and, like Makid said, it leaves the door open for more big hotels (West Quarter Block D, Arrow Press). It sounds like that with 1000 rooms it would probably have been a 500 ft tall wall (à la Las Vegas). A new tallest that is a giant wall would have really stuck out in the skyline in a bad way. This is my (and Orlando's) main beef with Sundial too.

On the other hand, here's a shorter, boxier concept that had a more unique facade:

[Reeder113]

Originally Posted by Atlas

I mostly like the CCH that we got (except the north and west-facing blank walls) and, like Makid said, it leaves the door open for more big hotels (West Quarter Block D, Arrow Press). It sounds like that with 1000 rooms it would probably have been a 500 ft tall wall (à la Las Vegas). A new tallest that is a giant wall would have really stuck out in the skyline in a bad way. This is my (and Orlando's) main beef with Sundial too.

On the other hand, here's a shorter, boxier concept that had a more unique facade:

I like what we got better than this concept.

[TheGeographer]

Thanks Makid for the background info. It is interesting to hear about all the decisions that go into determining the height of a building. I too am happy about how the CCH turned out, so I will focus on that. And to Atlas’s point a large wall tower would not fit in our skyline. We’ll get that signature tower eventually

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by Makid

While it may seem minor, this is a big deal for the events industry. Also, the bare minimum would have been 500 rooms. Also, the design of the hotel is well above the minimum. Discounting the number of rooms, would you rather have our CCH or Phoenix's or Denver's? I am also happy we didn't end up with an "L" shape as this would have created both a N/S wall and an E/W wall.

If you need to some reinforcement of the cheering for the hotel, look no further than Outdoor Retailers. I can easily guarantee that without the CCH they would not have returned to SLC.

I find it interesting that they specifically wanted to avoid an L shaped building. My biggest gripe with the aesthetics of the building we got is that it’s a long flat wall. Imagine this.. keep everything the same. The glass, the smooth curves, the sharp elevated top, it’s huge wide ass, everything. Just curve it inward like you would a piece of paper and BOOM, there’s at least a design to brag about.

I’m glad outdoor retailers will return, however the hotel should’ve happened a lot earlier to prevent the leave in the first place. I think everyone dropped the ball there. The city could’ve had bigger and cooler conventions decades ago. Hey, we’re here now I guess. Extra 700 rooms and all.

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by Atlas

That looks like a rendering for an office park in Draper. The salt palace isn’t even there lol.

[freeshavocado]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

That looks like a rendering for an office park in Draper. The salt palace isn’t even there lol.

The salt palace is clearly there lol. Not sure what that building on the far left is, though.

[Sight-Seer]

When I first heard the convention center hotel would be 25 stories, I was disappointed. It seemed small. But when it took shape, I was amazed at how big it looked. It seems to look bigger than it actually is. From the west it dominates the view of the city. It is a lot like a big wall. But I like it a lot. It echoes the curvy shapes of the Salt Palace. The thin, flat shape looks different from every direction. It's an iconic structure that will help to define Salt Lake, but at the same time it's very "safe". City leaders really hate taking chances. They seem to prefer nice, safe, practical boxes. Boxes maximize interior space you know. I'm in favor of tall buildings in general, but I'm glad this isn't any taller. It's already almost too big. On the subject of height restrictions, it seems like they discourage development. What purpose do height restrictions serve in a practical sense, not somebody's idea of balance? Tall buildings increase traffic, but you have traffic anyway. Do other cities have height restrictions?

[Utah_Dave]

This info may be a non-factor but I remember some residents of 99 west made a big stink about the proposed unlimited height zoning change on the north site for the CCH. This may have played a roll in not going over the 375 height restrictions for the south site so it would clear the hurdles faster . Just an added guess.

[Rileybo]

Originally Posted by Utah_Dave

This info may be a non-factor but I remember some residents of 99 west made a big stink about the proposed unlimited height zoning change on the north site for the CCH. This may have played a roll in not going over the 375 height restrictions for the south site so it would clear the hurdles faster . Just an added guess.

Rich people who move into these luxury high rises and complain about the possibility of another luxury tower being built nearby because they’ll see it from their windows are the most illogical whiners on the planet.

[Comrade]

When American Stores was deciding on building its tower (now the Wells Fargo Center) either downtown or out in West Valley, a bunch of residents who lived in the American Towers put up a stink because the high-rise would block their view of the eastern mountains.

I get it - to a point. You pay good money for those views. But you know what? You're choosing to live downtown, so, you kind of need to expect that eventually a development will come along and knock down your view lmao

On another note, could you imagine the American Stores Tower out in West Valley? Yikes.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Sight-Seer

When I first heard the convention center hotel would be 25 stories, I was disappointed. It seemed small. But when it took shape, I was amazed at how big it looked. It seems to look bigger than it actually is. From the west it dominates the view of the city. It is a lot like a big wall. But I like it a lot. It echoes the curvy shapes of the Salt Palace. The thin, flat shape looks different from every direction. It's an iconic structure that will help to define Salt Lake, but at the same time it's very "safe". City leaders really hate taking chances. They seem to prefer nice, safe, practical boxes. Boxes maximize interior space you know. I'm in favor of tall buildings in general, but I'm glad this isn't any taller. It's already almost too big. On the subject of height restrictions, it seems like they discourage development. What purpose do height restrictions serve in a practical sense, not somebody's idea of balance? Tall buildings increase traffic, but you have traffic anyway. Do other cities have height restrictions?

Height restrictions are a mix of urban form, views, light, density, traffic, etc. For example, the zoning for downtown is set up so that the taller buildings are in the center of downtown. The height maximums steps down from there.

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by Sight-Seer

When I first heard the convention center hotel would be 25 stories, I was disappointed. It seemed small. But when it took shape, I was amazed at how big it looked. It seems to look bigger than it actually is. From the west it dominates the view of the city. It is a lot like a big wall. But I like it a lot. It echoes the curvy shapes of the Salt Palace. The thin, flat shape looks different from every direction. It's an iconic structure that will help to define Salt Lake, but at the same time it's very "safe". City leaders really hate taking chances. They seem to prefer nice, safe, practical boxes. Boxes maximize interior space you know. I'm in favor of tall buildings in general, but I'm glad this isn't any taller. It's already almost too big. On the subject of height restrictions, it seems like they discourage development. What purpose do height restrictions serve in a practical sense, not somebody's idea of balance? Tall buildings increase traffic, but you have traffic anyway. Do other cities have height restrictions?

Other cities most certainly have height restrictions. But also Salt Lake City is currently working on overhauling height restrictions, and hopefully it will pass City Council because it looks like a much better system.

And also, I'm not really sure if city leaders have much control over how "safe" a building's architecture is. That seems to be on the developers more than anybody.