Official Fredericton, NB projects thread

[DevelopmentAndy]

Originally Posted by OliverD

I think it was still open when I moved here in 1999.

Yes, someone posted in was that Mac closed (the article is dated May). I think whatever land deal/expropriation was before that. The discussion of the site and its access pre-dated that by many years so it it unclear when the land was transferred. The entrance must have closed later at some time, perhaps 2001.

[cj6286]

But can we all agree that the province should just remove the “right lane ends” and just let two lanes of traffic flow down the hill to PMB and Forest Hills? Whenever there is an accident on the PMB, traffic backs up to the top of the hill.

[DevelopmentAndy]

Originally Posted by cj6286

But can we all agree that the province should just remove the “right lane ends” and just let two lanes of traffic flow down the hill to PMB and Forest Hills? Whenever there is an accident on the PMB, traffic backs up to the top of the hill.

It is certainly strange. I would have thought it was worth it for the developer next door to purchase at least some of that land and remove the soil and do a cleanup and put a court in there off of Bliss Carmen. Maybe they tried. Leaving it the way it is at least the last time I was there is very confusing, not sure what that is all about. Looks like an exit or a rest stop but really it is nothing and not very safe.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by DevelopmentAndy

It is certainly strange. I would have thought it was worth it for the developer next door to purchase at least some of that land and remove the soil and do a cleanup and put a court in there off of Bliss Carmen. Maybe they tried. Leaving it the way it is at least the last time I was there is very confusing, not sure what that is all about. Looks like an exit or a rest stop but really it is nothing and not very safe.

It's neither strange or confusing IMO. If you were coming down that hill and were not familiar with the area you might not realize that the right lane is an exit lane that needs to be taken at a very slow speed (relatively speaking). By forcing everyone to the left lane you need to make the conscious decision to be in the exit lane. It's a safety thing.

[DevelopmentAndy]

Originally Posted by OliverD

It's neither strange or confusing IMO. If you were coming down that hill and were not familiar with the area you might not realize that the right lane is an exit lane that needs to be taken at a very slow speed (relatively speaking). By forcing everyone to the left lane you need to make the conscious decision to be in the exit lane. It's a safety thing.

I was referring to the Mac Road "exit". Maybe it is not there. I don't live there. Nothing is too confusing if you are a local using the roads all of the time.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by DevelopmentAndy

I was referring to the Mac Road "exit". Maybe it is not there. I don't live there. Nothing is too confusing if you are a local using the roads all of the time.

Yeah but you were responding to someone talking about how the two lanes go into one before the second lane starts again. The exit is still there, but that's a separate issue.

[DevelopmentAndy]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Yeah but you were responding to someone talking about how the two lanes go into one before the second lane starts again. The exit is still there, but that's a separate issue.

I realized that after I looked on google maps. I have only been in Fredericton a couple of times in the last 15 years and not at that location for probably 20-25 so I was thinking it was wider before that and it was all part of the same strange and dangerous traffic engineering. The last time I drove there was probably more than 25 years ago, maybe more.

[NB_ExistsToo]

Originally Posted by OliverD

It's neither strange or confusing IMO. If you were coming down that hill and were not familiar with the area you might not realize that the right lane is an exit lane that needs to be taken at a very slow speed (relatively speaking). By forcing everyone to the left lane you need to make the conscious decision to be in the exit lane. It's a safety thing.

There's highway standards to address any concerns regarding the speed exiting at Forest Hills if people are taking it too fast, as to whether that is sufficient, I don't know.

I think the "rest stop" exit at the top of the hill doesn't address any safety concerns whatsoever, as the lane restarts for another 700m or so. They should just eliminate the 2nd lane restart and make the Forest Hill exit a normal exit ramp, that would eliminate any confusion people have about which lane to be in coming down the hill.

Or just eliminate the "rest stop" exit ramp and maintain 2 lanes the entire length. There's signage to let people know you're exiting, which is typical when you approach a fork/road split along main roadways.

[Taeolas]

A random thought I had this weekend after a visit to Costco....

I have to wonder if Costco is thinking of expanding the Fredericton store a bit? Because it is really beginning to feel small now.

Maybe it's just the times I've gone in, but whether it is after work on a weekday or (god forbid) a random Saturday visit, the store always seems packed. It really feels like it really could use a lot more room in the front for the cashiers/canteen area in general. I've often thought of picking up a sausage or a snack on the way out, but one look at the lines around the kiosks and I just keep going.

[balfozz]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

A random thought I had this weekend after a visit to Costco....

I have to wonder if Costco is thinking of expanding the Fredericton store a bit? Because it is really beginning to feel small now.

Maybe it's just the times I've gone in, but whether it is after work on a weekday or (god forbid) a random Saturday visit, the store always seems packed. It really feels like it really could use a lot more room in the front for the cashiers/canteen area in general. I've often thought of picking up a sausage or a snack on the way out, but one look at the lines around the kiosks and I just keep going.

I really believe Costco and the city need to consider moving the gas bar and improve the entrance as that gets way too congested at times - they could move it further over or to the back property and include the 3 deep pumps like Moncton has

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by balfozz

I really believe Costco and the city need to consider moving the gas bar and improve the entrance as that gets way too congested at times - they could move it further over or to the back property and include the 3 deep pumps like Moncton has

Thinking of this a bit more, and it's probably a more extensive renovation than the store would probably want to do, I think I would do the following (assuming their are no ecological concerns and the land can be carved out).

* Close off the current Gas station entrance to force everyone down to the next road which is already a 4 way stop. There isn't a need to change this intersection as most traffic will be coming from another direction (see a couple steps below). We don't want these entrances to be used as a 'short cut' to the new store orientation.

* Redesign the gas bar to be like Moncton's, in the current northernmost corner of the parking lot. Moncton's gas bar seems to be 100m by 50m, which would easily fit into that corner of the parking lot.

* Expand the actual store northwards (towards Corbett centre). The northern parking lot will basically be gone now, only used for delivery and the gas bar.

* FLIP the store so the entrance is now on the southwest corner (close to Regent street).

* Make a new main parking lot to the south of the store to reflect the new entrance. This has the added benefit of keeping gas bar lineups from store-use lineups.

* Make a new entrance to Regent at the end of this southern parking lot, either with a signal intersection, or more likely a roundabout.

* Have an access road around the entire lot to link up to the current lot exit near Home Depot.


The actual renovations would be done in the opposite order of course. First make the southern parking lot and Regent access, and maybe the access road around the building.

Then make the new south west entrance. (The service centre shouldn't need to be changed, but the bathrooms would have to be moved likely). Maybe plan a small extension on the south side of the building to orient the new exit parallel to that wall and have a brand new canteen and seating area there with the checkouts.

Open the new entrance and close the old one. Flip the layout as best they can at this point. (mainly the geenral goods shelves and pharmacy sections; the frozen food section may be tricky to do).

Expand the store northwards, with a new bakery/butcher sections and receiving area. Once that is done, finish rearranging the store as needed.

Finally build the new gas bar in the old northern parking lot and close the existing gas bar when the new one is ready.

*Edit* Some quick numbers from Google Maps measuring. (Not counting gas bars)

The old Moncton store was about 13,000 sqm.
The current Moncton store is about 16,000 sqm.
The Saint John store is about 14,500 sqm.
Fredericton's store is the smallest, about the same size as Moncton's original store at about 13,000 sqm.

I don't think we necessarily need to blow up to Moncton's current 16,000 size, but it does seem we're due for an expansion considering our service area and population growth.

[KnoxfordGuy]

How long has COSTCO been in Fredericton now? 15 years?

Edit: only 2011. Seems like longer haha

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

How long has COSTCO been in Fredericton now? 15 years?

Edit: only 2011. Seems like longer haha

A little over 13 years actually. The article was April 2011.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by balfozz

I really believe Costco and the city need to consider moving the gas bar and improve the entrance as that gets way too congested at times - they could move it further over or to the back property and include the 3 deep pumps like Moncton has

Would have nothing to do with the city as Trinity Ave is a private street.

There really isn't any room to do much to the current store as it already is very close to the wetlands buffer.

[Taeolas]

Maybe their best option then would be to do a Moncton and move somewhere else.

if they want to stay close to where they are now, it looks like you could carve out a good sized lot behind Home Depot/Winners that would be bigger than they have now, and doesn't seem to be close to any obvious wetlands. Knowledge Park Drive would probably need a few minor upgrades to handle more traffic, but otherwise it would be a good fit.

Or if they are willing to leave the area entirely, moving out somewhere along the Vanier Highway would probably be a good fit. They already know people will come if they build it. Somewhere near Leons on either side of the highway would probably be the best fit. Most likely right at the exit, maybe on the far side of Wilsley Road or next to Leons on Alison Blvd.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Maybe their best option then would be to do a Moncton and move somewhere else.

if they want to stay close to where they are now, it looks like you could carve out a good sized lot behind Home Depot/Winners that would be bigger than they have now, and doesn't seem to be close to any obvious wetlands. Knowledge Park Drive would probably need a few minor upgrades to handle more traffic, but otherwise it would be a good fit.

Or if they are willing to leave the area entirely, moving out somewhere along the Vanier Highway would probably be a good fit. They already know people will come if they build it. Somewhere near Leons on either side of the highway would probably be the best fit. Most likely right at the exit, maybe on the far side of Wilsley Road or next to Leons on Alison Blvd.

Why not somewhere along Bishop Drive? That would seem to be more accessible and a higher traffic area.

[DyAm00394]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

How long has COSTCO been in Fredericton now? 15 years?

Edit: only 2011. Seems like longer haha

The store locator on the Costco website says the opening date for the stores.

Moncton (original store before the relocation) was October 26, 1995.

Saint John was May 27, 2010.

And Fredericton was August 19, 2011.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Why not somewhere along Bishop Drive? That would seem to be more accessible and a higher traffic area.

That's another possibility, but a lot of the lands along there fall into protected status too which may be difficult to squeeze in a big box store of Costco's size and footprint, especially one with a gas bar linked to it. I still half expect Walmart to decamp Regent Mall someday and build a standalone super centre on Bishop, but they are still smaller than Costco and don't have the added needs (and risks) of a gas bar.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

That's another possibility, but a lot of the lands along there fall into protected status too which may be difficult to squeeze in a big box store of Costco's size and footprint, especially one with a gas bar linked to it. I still half expect Walmart to decamp Regent Mall someday and build a standalone super centre on Bishop, but they are still smaller than Costco and don't have the added needs (and risks) of a gas bar.

Past the Chateau Fredericton there are no wetlands and plenty of room for a Costco.

But I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves here. I don't see them making a significant enough expansion that would warrant a move anytime soon.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by OliverD

Past the Chateau Fredericton there are no wetlands and plenty of room for a Costco.

But I think we may be getting ahead of ourselves here. I don't see them making a significant enough expansion that would warrant a move anytime soon.

Hmm, going by above, Moncton's first store was in '95 and they moved to their new store in '18, so 23 years.

SJ and Freddy are at 15 and 14 years respectively. So we're probably looking at another 5 years of each store bursting at the seams before Costco will seriously consider a renovation/new location. SJ may be ahead of Freddy in the queue, both because it is (slightly) older and its a location without a gas bar; they'll certainly want to get a gas bar down in SJ. And note that's just to get to the "seriously considering a new location" point. Actually picking and building the locations probably won't happen till the late 20's/early 30's, but the high growth rates in Freddy (and SJ's recovering rates) may push the priority a bit more.