Provincial Economies III

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I'd have less of an issue with this argument if we weren't resorting to protectionism and economic support in so many other sectors. Also, avoiding subsidies would be a defensible argument if the US wasn't engaging in economic warfare. Sorry, but I'm sick of the country's industries being digging shit out of the ground and selling cardboard skyboxes to reach other and foreigners.

We could just choose other industries to subsidize though. Fuck the amount we offered to the auto industry in the last few years could of probably got us a serious semiconductor fab. The amount of dividends that would potentially pay...

It's just the logical inconsistency is absolutely off the charts with the whole car-oriented urban development is bad however car-oriented production is vital enough for subsidies. Users on here will have a smug attitude of urban planning in America yet we are following America's lead in a race to continue to subsidize production of the very good that drives all of this...

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by theman23

I think it works out to an extra $2k for every $100k in cap gains in Ontario at the corp level? Not the end of the world, but death by a thousand cuts and all that given their 2017 reforms.

https://www.looniedoctor.ca/2024/04/...anning-primer/

[theman23]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

https://www.looniedoctor.ca/2024/04/...anning-primer/

Quickly glancing at it, I think this chart is for businesses that do not claim the small business tax deduction. I'll probably have to speak to my own accountant soon as well to seek clarity.

Regardless, it isn't good news for Canadian doctors or other professionals relying on corps as an investment vehicle. The LPC has set the precedent and further raiding of professional corps is inevitable at this point.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by theman23

Quickly glancing at it, I think this chart is for businesses that do not claim the small business tax deduction. I'll probably have to speak to my own accountant soon as well to seek clarity.

Regardless, it isn't good news for Canadian doctors or other incorporated professionals relying on corps as an investment vehicle. The LPC has set the precedent and further raiding of professional corps is inevitable at this point.

In that scenario, it's likely the passive income clawback of the SBD that's wreaking havoc and making the final rates so unpalatable.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by goodgrowth

We could just choose other industries to subsidize though. Fuck the amount we offered to the auto industry in the last few years could of probably got us a serious semiconductor fab. The amount of dividends that would potentially pay...

With what talent would we build and run a semiconductor fab? The reason we seek to support EV manufacturing is because we have so many of the precursors. From the raw materials to make batteries, to talent in materials processing and auto manufacturing to existing auto component supply chains. We don't have any of that in other sectors. And there reason our economy keeps losing complexity and devolving to real estate and resources is exactly because of our refusal to defend value added secondary and tertiary industries. In 1995, Canada ranked 22 in Economic Complexity. In 2021, it ranks 41.

Source: https://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/rankings

Like how many more McJobs and realtors do you want to have? Our governments are finally learning that there's a real cost to their acceptance of deindustrialization from globalisation. Harper got turfed when deindustrialization hit Ontario hard. The rest of the country suffered to as the biggest "Have" province slipped below average at one point. I hope the CPC has learned their lesson from that era.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

In that scenario, it's likely the passive income clawback of the SBD that's wreaking havoc and making the final rates so unpalatable.

I'm guessing it'll be OK if you hold off on realizing cap gains until near retirement, when your corp income is likely low? That's assuming you don't hold investments like real estate or equipment within the corp, in which case you're kind of screwed. Like I said, not an accountant but thats my read so far.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

https://www.looniedoctor.ca/2024/04/...anning-primer/

Would be interesting to add earned income to the individual side of the chart.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

With what talent would we build and run a semiconductor fab? The reason we seek to support EV manufacturing is because we have so many of the precursors. From the raw materials to make batteries, to talent in materials processing and auto manufacturing to existing auto component supply chains. We don't have any of that in other sectors. And there reason our economy keeps losing complexity and devolving to real estate and resources is exactly because of our refusal to defend value added secondary and tertiary industries. In 1995, Canada ranked 22 in Economic Complexity. In 2021, it ranks 41.

Source: https://atlas.cid.harvard.edu/rankings

Like how many more McJobs and realtors do you want to have? Our governments are finally learning that there's a real cost to their acceptance of deindustrialization from globalisation. Harper got turfed when deindustrialization hit Ontario hard. The rest of the country suffered to as the biggest "Have" province slipped below average at one point. I hope the CPC has learned their lesson from that era.

Canada had a fab capability in Ottawa in the 90s. That was the day of Nortel being a major tech driver in Canada. At the time there was an ask of the feds to provide some modest investment to dramatically expand that capability. At the time the feds (Conservatives) had no interest in investing in domestic manufacturing. The dominant thinking at the time was Canada should evolve into a service based economy and manufacturing should be moved to China.

Nortel came very close to selling that program to IBM. In the end it went to
STMicroelectronics who shutdown the fab manufacturing facility and moved those operations to California, Singapore and France a few years later.

https://www.itworldcanada.com/articl...wa-plant/31698

Fast forward to when Nortel was in trouble and about to go under. They asked the Harper government to provide loan guarantees to RIM/Blackberry to buy key assets of Nortel and keep it a Canadian company. The Tories declined; instead European companies Ericsson and Nokia-Siemens purchased most of the IT and Google picked up a host of patents. Over time most of those jobs left for Europe and California with the IP.

So, very short sighted.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by casper

Canada had a fab capability in Ottawa in the 90s. That was the day of Nortel being a major tech driver in Canada. At the time there was an ask of the feds to provide some modest investment to dramatically expand that capability. At the time the feds (Conservatives) had no interest in investing in domestic manufacturing. The dominant thinking at the time was Canada should evolve into a service based economy and manufacturing should be moved to China.

Nortel came very close to selling that program to IBM. In the end it went to
STMicroelectronics who shutdown the fab manufacturing facility and moved those operations to California, Singapore and France a few years later.

https://www.itworldcanada.com/articl...wa-plant/31698

Fast forward to when Nortel was in trouble and about to go under. They asked the Harper government to provide loan guarantees to RIM/Blackberry to buy key assets of Nortel and keep it a Canadian company. The Tories declined; instead European companies Ericsson and Nokia-Siemens purchased most of the IT and Google picked up a host of patents. Over time most of those jobs left for Europe and California with the IP.

So, very short sighted.

Do you get your history lessons from your LPC mailer as well? The purchase by STMicro was it 2000, about 8 years after the Tories left office.

[casper]

Originally Posted by theman23

Do you get your history lessons from your LPC mailer as well? The purchase by STMicro was it 2000, about 8 years after the Tories left office.

Nortel was pitching a major fab facility in the 1990s. They did not get the support they were looking for. That was Mulroney and yes to some extent Chretien. Yes, I would agree that Chretien was not much better in supporting strategic industrial development.

This is Canada not Japan or the US.

My point, is the time to invest in a fab facility was in the 1990-2002 period when we had a base of expertise to build on. Not today.

Today, Canada still has significant engineering and design expertise. Intel has some of their GPU design teams in Canada as an example. We don't have the manufacturing expertise anymore.

[ssiguy]

Saw some good news from Alberta. Smith is committing $57 million for 27 different hydrogen projects across the province. This is the kind of development Alberta needs as a long-term investment to replace its oil dependency which is a commodity that is on the decline. If Trudeau had any vision or economic sense he would have built the Trans-Mountain with twin pipelines with one used for ammonia exports.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Say some good news from Alberta. Smith is committing $57 million for 27 different hydrogen projects across the province. This is the kind of development Alberta needs as a long-term investment to replace its oil dependency which is a commodity that is on the decline. If Trudeau had any vision or economic sense he would have built the Trans-Mountain with twin pipelines with one used for ammonia exports.

If you had any economic sense, you'd understand why there's no business case to ship ammonia by the tanker load out of BC right now.

[MonctonRad]

NEWS FLASH!!!

Justin Trudeau tells Canadian doctors to fuck off!!!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/doc...ains-1.7181885

Canadian doctors are pampered and lazy fat cats who are bilking the system. "We don't need your kind here" says Trudeau.

[Hackslack]

Trudeau, a masterful socialist idiot.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

NEWS FLASH!!!

Justin Trudeau tells Canadian doctors to fuck off!!!

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/doc...ains-1.7181885

Canadian doctors are pampered and lazy fat cats who are bilking the system. "We don't need your kind here" says Trudeau.

There are the famous waves of Fresh New Suckers™ but in your case, by neglecting to decamp to the USA when you had the chance, you're a Good Old Sucker

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by lio45

There are the famous waves of Fresh New Suckers™ but in your case, by neglecting to decamp to the USA when you had the chance, you're a Good Old Sucker

It would have been an easy move. My mother was born in the USA, and I had already secured a Maine state medical license (which, with interstate reciprocity meant I could have automatically been licensed in an additional 45 states). I was well advanced in the green card process, but, I chickened out at the last minute. With less than two years to go until retirement, it no longer makes any sense to move.

This is not the first time that JT has fucked me over. He seems to have a real hatred for the personally incorporated professional class. I'm sure he not done with capital gains exemptions. If by some means he happens to get re-elected, I imagine capital gains exemptions will disappear entirely.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You have benefitted from this reduced tax rate for your entire career.

I realize this government has impacted doctors more than others.

You have had a lower rate compared to other high wage earners for decades.

This isn't really a valid point because provincial governments deliberately pay doctors less to account for this lower tax rate. In Ontario, for example, one of the billing agreements made with the Ontario doctors union in the early 2000s was literally Ontario changing its regulations to allow doctors to incorporate to get the lower rate (prior to this change, doctors couldn't do this in Ontario), in exchange for the doctors accepting a multi-year freeze on billing fees, so basically the ability to incorporate was their inflationary wage increase for a few years).

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

This isn't really a valid point because provincial governments deliberately pay doctors less to account for this lower tax rate. In Ontario, for example, one of the billing agreements made with the Ontario doctors union in the early 2000s was literally Ontario changing its regulations to allow doctors to incorporate to get the lower rate (prior to this change, doctors couldn't do this in Ontario), in exchange for the doctors accepting a multi-year freeze on billing fees, so basically the ability to incorporate was their inflationary wage increase for a few years).

Yes but we no longer pay doctors substantially less. They have seen an explosion in compensation. Much more than almost any other profession since 2000. Like civil servants who were once paid less but got a pension they are now getting the best of both worlds.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes but we no longer pay doctors substantially less. They have seen an explosion in compensation. Much more than almost any other profession since 2000. Like civil servants who were once paid less but got a pension they are now getting the best of both worlds.

This is not true in every province.

[1overcosc]

Also - the rest of us - basically anyone who is a employee of an employer - gets a tax shelter much better than anything doctors got prior to 2024 - the RRSP program.