Protests and their effects on Ottawa

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Nimby

I have no problem with any group/cause (including idle no more, blm, truckers, etc.) exercising their right to protest as long as they remain peaceful and don’t break laws. Do you?

Your suggestion that videos clearly showing protesters lighting wood pallets on fire on tracks for approaching trains to ram into is a technique endorsed by rail companies is very enlightening. Thanks. Do they perform this service for free or did the rail company hire them?

The video that went viral in right wing circles a number of years ago, shows the standard practice described in the link I shared. It showed pallets being stacked next to train tracks as per normal. The video incorrectly suggested in the upper and lower letterboxes that there was something nefarious with this practice. I'm going from memory here but I believe the upper and lower letterboxes were yellow in colour. The video does not show any train ramming anything. There were no train derailments or similar incidents that I'm aware of that were caused by the Idle No More demonstrations. I invite you to back up your allegations. I'm happy to be proven wrong if you would like to link me to a TSB report) of any train derailments or trains ramming a flaming barricade from that time period.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

The video that went viral in right wing circles a number of years ago, shows the standard practice described in the link I shared. It showed pallets being stacked next to train tracks as per normal. The video incorrectly suggested in the upper and lower letterboxes that there was something nefarious with this practice. I'm going from memory here but I believe the upper and lower letterboxes were yellow in colour. The video does not show any train ramming anything. There were no train derailments or similar incidents that I'm aware of that were caused by the Idle No More demonstrations. I invite you to back up your allegations. I'm happy to be proven wrong if you would like to link me to a TSB report) of any train derailments or trains ramming a flaming barricade from that time period.

Is this what you guys are talking about? Apologies if it isn't.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...ight-1.5476708

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

If the cops haven't taken bomb sniffing dogs around to the trucks in front of the Hill or the Rideau Centre, they are incompetent.

The cops are definitely incompetent but I think the bigger issue is that the OPS has decided to side with the truck convey instead of the citizens of Centretown that they're supposed to protect.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Is this what you guys are talking about? Apologies if it isn't.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...ight-1.5476708

No, that's not the video I was referring to. But I note that video and associated article also doesn't show a train derailment or any sort of a "ramming" incident along the lines the other person in this thread was suggesting had happened.

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

I used to think "Defund the police" was a dumb idea. But I'm coming around to it, given how relatively useless they seem to be proving themselves to be. If they can't protect businesses and residents, with a rather medium sized group of hooligans, I'm inclined to ask what we're paying them for.

I definitely want whatever portion of my tax dollars went to police back. They did sweet fuck all to help me or enforce laws in my neighbourhood. I ultimately had to leave town in order to be able to sleep.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

No, that's not the video I was referring to. But I note that video and associated article also doesn't show a train derailment or any sort of a "ramming" incident along the lines the other person in this thread was suggesting had happened.

I was not a party to your discussion, but sure... I don't recall any trains derailing during those blockades.

But there were several occasions where burning items were placed on the tracks in front of trains during that time.

[nredding]

I saw one of the protesters gassing up at the MacEwen gas station at Bank and Catherine. (His pickup was covered with posters.) He was a thuggish-looking guy. He had a couple of jerry cans in the back of his pickup, so maybe he was getting gas for some of the other trucks.

[lrt's friend]

A friend of mine was verbally accosted by a protester downtown, when he was simply trying to shop 8 blocks from Parliament Hill. A lot of foul degrading language was used.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

The video that went viral in right wing circles a number of years ago, shows the standard practice described in the link I shared. It showed pallets being stacked next to train tracks as per normal. The video incorrectly suggested in the upper and lower letterboxes that there was something nefarious with this practice. I'm going from memory here but I believe the upper and lower letterboxes were yellow in colour. The video does not show any train ramming anything. There were no train derailments or similar incidents that I'm aware of that were caused by the Idle No More demonstrations. I invite you to back up your allegations. I'm happy to be proven wrong if you would like to link me to a TSB report) of any train derailments or trains ramming a flaming barricade from that time period.

Are you really condoning deliberately setting fires along a railway when trains may be carrying flammable chemicals?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

are you really condoning deliberately setting fires along a railway when trains may be carrying flammable chemicals?

peaceful, non-fiery flaming railway barricades ?

[caveat.doctor]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

No, that's not the video I was referring to. But I note that video and associated article also doesn't show a train derailment or any sort of a "ramming" incident along the lines the other person in this thread was suggesting had happened.

I agree, I don't recall any derailments when I was amongst the thousands of people that had train travel disrupted in 2020 - but only because VIA stopped running the trains. The protestors had indeed blocked the rails with trucks and heavy equipment and set fires though - and the fires were not their doing a "favour" by keeping the switches from freezing. And like what is happening now in Ottawa, the police made a decision to not enforce the laws that should have protected the public from this sort of intimidation and harassment.

I get that the police are trying to walk a fine line here and "no rioting" is an important goal. Also get that more support will be needed to clear the roads entirely, not least to physically secure and remove the vehicles, not knowing might be inside. But I think the lack of overt action so far is only setting up for a worse situation this weekend - if the City hasn't even been able to get an injunction or some legal pressure on the table yet, I don't see why anyone (on any side) will be discouraged from escalating this weekend.

With the rail blockades, the PM didn't meet with the protestors but did have other members of Cabinet come out to try to dialogue. It didn't work right away but it did seem to de-escalate at the time, leading to an injunction and finally police enforcement or their leaving voluntarily. Maybe that's one way to try to make an effort to get the protesters out, but still allowing the PM to stick to his guns at not meeting with them.

[lrt's friend]

Are we setting ourselves up for escalating protests in Ottawa in the future? Now that this protest has succeeded in causing tremendous disruption, why not more on every contentious issue?

I am expecting that protests will scuttle Canada Day celebrations again this year. Count on it.

Downtown Ottawa will increasingly be for disgruntled protest groups, rather than the residents of Ottawa and the majority of citizens of Canada.

[kwoldtimer]

I don’t know that you need to look beyond this coming weekend to see an escalation.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by nredding

I saw one of the protesters gassing up at the MacEwen gas station at Bank and Catherine. (His pickup was covered with posters.) He was a thuggish-looking guy. He had a couple of jerry cans in the back of his pickup, so maybe he was getting gas for some of the other trucks.

FWIW:


https://twitter.com/bruceanderson/st...20099898056706

[passwordisnt123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

peaceful, non-fiery flaming railway barricades ?

Compared to these mothertruckers, yes it was comparatively way more peaceful. Nobody had human excrement smeared over their property. No peaceful bystanders were attacked. Nobody got tinnitus. Nobody had their property vandalized because of their sexual orientation. No threats of violence against civilian population centres. No longlasting damage to infrastructure. The barricades were largely located outside of population centres. I'd choose that over this fresh hell.

Also the fact that this trucker protest is a bunch of crybaby snowflakes without a coherent set of policy demands. There's no equivalence between that and this.

[DTcrawler]

I wish police had been able to put an end to these disruptions a while ago. That being said, the notion that police are "siding" with these protestors, sharing photo ops with them, under-enforcing laws, or otherwise taking an approach that's any different to what they would've done had the protest been for indigenous rights, BLM, etc. is ridiculous. To me, it really points to a lot of internalized biases and selective memory recall that we are largely unaware of.

Having lived in downtown Ottawa for many years and having endured many protests, I'm going to draw some comparisons between police action (or inaction) during the current protest and previous ones, trying to be as objective as possible.

Many are accusing of police of taking photos with trucker convoy protesters (aka their "buddies"), something that wouldn't have otherwise happened if the protesters had been non-white. Recall the George Floyd / BLM protest of June 2020, when numerous photos were shared of police raising their fists or kneeling down in solidarity with protesters.

Another accusation of police is under-enforcement of laws against freedom protesters. However, the same BLM protest in question saw zero arrests made, apart from one lady who was arrested for assaulting a protester. "Well that's because BLM protesters were peaceful and the truckers are not". Well, not quite. Despite the actual BLM march being quite peaceful, many seem to forget the brief period of conflict which followed the official event, when a large number of people made their way over from the march's end-point, at the Canadian Tribute to Human Rights on Elgin, to the intersection of Rideau / Sussex. I had been cycling southbound on Mackenzie Ave. at the exact same time, and reached Rideau just in time to watch it unfold. On their way over, I remember seeing numerous protesters walk over-top of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, drawing another parallel to the current protest. When they arrived at Rideau Sussex, a few began hurling plastic water bottles and other small projectiles at police. Luckily, a strong thunderstorm passed through the area shortly afterwards, and the crowd quickly dispersed.

"Well what about the indigenous / BLM protesters who were swiftly arrested in Nov 2020 for blocking the intersection of Laurier / Nicholas, while freedom protesters have been allowed to block intersections with no issues?" Again, not quite how it happened. The BLM protesters were allowed to block the intersection in question for three whole days, despite it not being part of the approved list of road closures agreed upon by police. The explanation for the arrests was that the intersection is part of an important emergency route (likely due to 417 access on Nicholas). The police blocked numerous other agreed upon roads / intersections for BLM protesters, and I have little doubt that police would have taken action against freedom protesters had they blocked emergency vehicles or emergency routes.

Finally, not an incident that happened in Ottawa, but the railroad blockades of early 2020 by indigenous protesters is another example of police inaction. Multiple days of blockades went unanswered by police while objects were placed on the tracks and, in certain instances, set on fire. A cancellation of my VIA train as a result of the blockades caused me to miss an important life event.

So, to summarize my rant, all protests can be annoying/disruptive. What dictates our level of tolerance is the degree to which we agree with the cause that protesters are supporting. Putting up with non-stop honking during the BLM protests of 2020 or pro-Palestine protests of 2021 was easier due to the fact that many of us felt they were supporting noble causes. This is also likely the reason we find it hard to recognize our biases when it comes to our perception of the relevant police response to those events (i.e. chastising police for arresting BLM protesters blocking an intersection vs. chastising police for not doing so to freedom protesters, despite different circumstances).

In my general experience living in Ottawa, police are very laissez-faire when it comes to dealing with protesters, for better or for worse.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

I wish police had been able to put an end to these disruptions a while ago. That being said, the notion that police are "siding" with these protestors, sharing photo ops with them, under-enforcing laws, or otherwise taking an approach that's any different to what they would've done had the protest been for indigenous rights, BLM, etc. is ridiculous. To me, it really points to a lot of internalized biases and selective memory recall that we are largely unaware of.

Having lived in downtown Ottawa for many years and having endured many protests, I'm going to draw some comparisons between police action (or inaction) during the current protest and previous ones, trying to be as objective as possible.

Many are accusing of police of taking photos with trucker convoy protesters (aka their "buddies"), something that wouldn't have otherwise happened if the protesters had been non-white. Recall the George Floyd / BLM protest of June 2020, when numerous photos were shared of police raising their fists or kneeling down in solidarity with protesters.

Another accusation of police is under-enforcement of laws against freedom protesters. However, the same BLM protest in question saw zero arrests made, apart from one lady who was arrested for assaulting a protester. "Well that's because BLM protesters were peaceful and the truckers are not". Well, not quite. Despite the actual BLM march being quite peaceful, many seem to forget the brief period of conflict which followed the official event, when a large number of people made their way over from the march's end-point, at the Canadian Tribute to Human Rights on Elgin, to the intersection of Rideau / Sussex. I had been cycling southbound on Mackenzie Ave. at the exact same time, and reached Rideau just in time to watch it unfold. On their way over, I remember seeing numerous protesters walk over-top of the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, drawing another parallel to the current protest. When they arrived at Rideau Sussex, a few began hurling plastic water bottles and other small projectiles at police. Luckily, a strong thunderstorm passed through the area shortly afterwards, and the crowd quickly dispersed.

"Well what about the indigenous / BLM protesters who were swiftly arrested in Nov 2020 for blocking the intersection of Laurier / Nicholas, while freedom protesters have been allowed to block intersections with no issues?" Again, not quite how it happened. The BLM protesters were allowed to block the intersection in question for three whole days, despite it not being part of the approved list of road closures agreed upon by police. The explanation for the arrests was that the intersection is part of an important emergency route (likely due to 417 access on Nicholas). The police blocked numerous other agreed upon roads / intersections for BLM protesters, and I have little doubt that police would have taken action against freedom protesters had they blocked emergency vehicles or emergency routes.

Finally, not an incident that happened in Ottawa, but the railroad blockades of early 2020 by indigenous protesters is another example of police inaction. Multiple days of blockades went unanswered by police while objects were placed on the tracks and, in certain instances, set on fire. A cancellation of my VIA train as a result of the blockades caused me to miss an important life event.

So, to summarize my rant, all protests can be annoying/disruptive. What dictates our level of tolerance is the degree to which we agree with the cause that protesters are supporting. Putting up with non-stop honking during the BLM protests of 2020 or pro-Palestine protests of 2021 was easier due to the fact that many of us felt they were supporting noble causes. This is also likely the reason we find it hard to recognize our biases when it comes to our perception of the relevant police response to those events (i.e. chastising police for arresting BLM protesters blocking an intersection vs. chastising police for not doing so to freedom protesters, despite different circumstances).

In my general experience living in Ottawa, police are very laissez-faire when it comes to dealing with protesters, for better or for worse.

Very well said. This could be published and is more accurate and objective than anything I've read.

I think in fact the interesting thing about this protest and maybe the only lasting impact it might have is increasing supports for limits on protests.

[Jimmy Nimby]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Compared to these mothertruckers, yes it was comparatively way more peaceful. Nobody had human excrement smeared over their property. No peaceful bystanders were attacked. Nobody got tinnitus. Nobody had their property vandalized because of their sexual orientation. No threats of violence against civilian population centres. No longlasting damage to infrastructure. The barricades were largely located outside of population centres. I'd choose that over this fresh hell.

Also the fact that this trucker protest is a bunch of crybaby snowflakes without a coherent set of policy demands. There's no equivalence between that and this.

https://www.intelligencer.ca/news/lo...-at-tyendinaga

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by passwordisnt123

Compared to these mothertruckers, yes it was comparatively way more peaceful. Nobody had human excrement smeared over their property. No peaceful bystanders were attacked. Nobody got tinnitus. Nobody had their property vandalized because of their sexual orientation. No threats of violence against civilian population centres. No longlasting damage to infrastructure. The barricades were largely located outside of population centres. I'd choose that over this fresh hell.

Also the fact that this trucker protest is a bunch of crybaby snowflakes without a coherent set of policy demands. There's no equivalence between that and this.

You can't look at this in isolation. What about the defacing of monuments in many places across the country? What about the burning and defacing of churches. I saw one such defaced church in downtown Victoria last September. We have seen marches running amok. Then, the demand to be ashamed of our country and the take over of our most important day of celebration, as a 'day of reckoning'. Ottawans and Canadians were not welcome in downtown Ottawa last July 1st. How is that better? In fact, I look at that as setting a precedent for what is happening this week.

[lrt's friend]

Silent Vigil Walk tomorrow at 5 pm (I received this from a distributed e-mail) Take it as you wish.

SILENT VIGIL WALK

In Support of MLK's 'Beloved Community'&
Against anti-Black Racism, anti-Semitism, Islamophobia,
Homophobia and Indigenous Injustice

For these last few days Ottawa has been invaded and held hostage. At first, those that could, retreated from the inconvenience of the vehicles. Then we saw the attitude and ignorance of their drivers and recoiled in disgust. It is now time, however, to come out, take back our streets and show what WE believe. PEACEFULLY.

The only thing necessary for evil to triumph
Is for good people to do nothing

This Thursday, Feb 3 at 5:00 PM

Commencing at the Human Rights Monument
On Elgin Street @ City Hall
and then walking, socially distanced and masked, on the sidewalk to the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier for a moment of silent.

No speeches but, if you wish,

please bring appropriate signs, flags and banners

We Could Carry Flashlights as in a Vigil
Tape a small, empty plastic container to the light to disperse it

Vive Ensemble!