[Gatineau] New Hospital | 600 beds

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Well, ya. This site is discriminatory to people who don't have cars, and the black population are disproportionately represented in that category. That might not have been the CAQ's intention, they just don't care about anyone who doesn't have a car, regardless of race. But that doesn't make it ok. This falls in the definition of "Systemic Racism" that Legault so passionately claims does not exist.



This area is not CAQ controlled, so they don't care. The highway would benefit CAQ ridings in the east.

There is a pretty good chance that that area (Hull) will be CAQ-controlled as of next October.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

The newest Ottawa hospital (the General) was completed in 1980. Just because transit was not part of the conversation in the 20th Century doesn't mean we can ignore that now.

The new Civic will be on rapid transit. Most hospitals in Toronto are on the University subway line. The CHUM and McGill University Health Centre are linked to the Metro. The new St. Paul in Vancouver will be near rapid transit. Most if not all of Edmonton's major hospitals will be linked by rapid transit within 10 years.

Although the connections to rapid transit may be imperfect in these examples, they are still within walking distance.

I agree that it's probably foolish to not place it on a RT line if you have any possibility of doing so.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Well, ya. This site is discriminatory to people who don't have cars, and the black population are disproportionately represented in that category. That might not have been the CAQ's intention, they just don't care about anyone who doesn't have a car, regardless of race. But that doesn't make it ok. This falls in the definition of "Systemic Racism" that Legault so passionately claims does not exist.
.

While I did hear that, I was actually being a bit sarcastic when I posted it.

Either way I don't think this angle will make any difference.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is a pretty good chance that that area (Hull) will be CAQ-controlled as of next October.

Not so sure about that. I think the CAQ pissed a lot of people off over the last 4 years, especially in the Outaouais. With the exception of A-50 (barriers and now the at least partial widening), they've proven that they are just as bad as the Liberals in PQ when it comes to abandoning the region. Nice words, little action.

In this district in particular, the closed-door decision making and complete lack of public consultation on the hospital site, and the dismissal (or "re-assignment" if you prefer) of the Chelsea Muslim Teacher will deal quite a blow to their chances.

Originally Posted by Acajack

While I did hear that, I was actually being a bit sarcastic when I posted it.

Either way I don't think this angle will make any difference.

No doubt. They really don't care what people think, and continue to deny the existence of systemic racism, even though they are the epitome of it.

[Acajack]

Wrong thread for this, but while I don't think it's a sure thing...

https://qc125.com/1042f.htm

Ultimately I think it's more Quebec-wide trends that will influence things. If the Liberals get anything resembling a Quebec-wide uptick, they'll probably keep Hull. If they continue to tread water or slide, they'll likely lose it to the CAQ.

A good chunk of my friends live in Hull - not a single one has ever said anything about the Chelsea teacher's case. (My friends are mostly from the demographic that makes up 80% of the riding population.)

I think the people most upset by that wouldn't ever vote for the CAQ anyway.

[J.OT13]

Yet another group pushing for a Downtown site. This isn't like the Civic debate with people pushing conspiracy theories and hyperboles about "historic" grass that was parking and buildings not that long ago (and still is partialy). The detractors are not waiting 6 years after the site is chosen to step-up.

This is more than just NIMBYism. We are seeing legitimate concerns ranging from environmental to accessibility and lack of consultation (which was also the case with the Civic, admittedly).

The CAQ has spent 4 years researching sites. They could, as was done with the Civic, turn around and pick a new site within a few weeks.

Futur hôpital: l’Ordre des urbanistes s’en mêle

MATHIEU BÉLANGER
Le Droit, 21 mars 2022

Au tour de l’Ordre des urbanistes du Québec de faire entendre son point de vue dans le dossier du futur Centre hospitalier affilié universitaire de l’Outaouais (CHAUO). À l’instar de nombreux autres intervenants qui l’ont fait dans les derniers mois, l’organisme milite en faveur d’un site central, en accord avec les notions de développement durable. Québec solidaire (QS), de son côté, plaide directement en faveur du centre-ville de Gatineau.

Dans une lettre publiée dans Le Devoir et dans Le Droit, l’Ordre des urbanistes du Québec (OUQ) affirme que le gouvernement du Québec doit profiter du choix du site du futur hôpital pour lancer «une nouvelle ère d’exemplarité» en matière d’aménagement du territoire.

Vendredi, Le Droit révélait que, selon plusieurs sources, le centre-ville de Gatineau aurait été écarté comme site potentiel pour la construction du futur centre hospitalier. Le gouvernement serait sur le point d’annoncer que sa décision s’est arrêtée sur le site du boulevard de la Technologie, en bordure de l’autoroute 5.

À l’approche du dépôt de la nouvelle Politique nationale d’architecture et d’aménagement du territoire, la vice-présidente de l’OUQ, Nathalie Prud’homme, invite Québec à saisir cette occasion d’assumer son rôle de leadership et de faire «un geste concrétisant sa volonté de faire autrement».

«À l’heure de la crise climatique, il ne suffit plus d’invoquer l’urgence pour évacuer les considérations de développement durable, de mobilité et d’aménagement», insiste-t-elle dans sa lettre. Ainsi, aux yeux de l’ordre, il est «incontournable» qu’un équipement public majeur comme un hôpital régional soit localisé dans un endroit hautement accessible en transport collectif, qui favorise la rationalisation des coûts pour les infrastructures urbaines et qui consolide les milieux déjà urbanisés.

Corridor écologique

La Société pour la nature et les parcs - Section Vallée de l’Outaouais lutte depuis les années 1970 pour protéger l’intégrité du parc de la Gatineau et ses corridors écologique. La vice-présidente de la section locale, Monique Boivin, n’a surtout pas l’intention de baisser la garde alors qu’à son avis, le gouvernement du Québec semble vouloir prendre une décision qui pourrait avoir des impacts irrémédiables sur l’intégrité de cet important espace vert.

Elle s’inquiète particulièrement pour les corridors naturels qu’un futur hôpital construit au 200, boulevard de la Technologie pourrait mettre à mal. «Ces corridors [qui relient le parc à la rivière Gatineau] sont capitaux pour la santé du parc de la Gatineau, dit-elle. Ils permettent aux animaux de se déplacer et de se rendre à des lieux de nidification. C’est aussi important pour la protection de la flore. C’est l’intégrité du parc qui serait mis en danger si ces corridors sont affectés.»

QS se prononce

Deux candidats à des investitures de QS ont aussi ajouté leurs voix, lundi, à celles qui réclament que le futur hôpital soit érigé au centre-ville. Mathieu Perron-Dufour, qui souhaite représenter QS dans Hull, estime qu'un terrain au centre-ville représente «la solution durable, écologique, juste et pragmatique qui devrait être retenue par le gouvernement du Québec». Candidature à l'investiture solidaire dans Pontiac, Marie-Claude Latourelle, ajoute qu'un centre hospitalier dans les Hautes-Plaines viendrait «piétiner par décret un plan d'urbanisme élaboré de façon démocratique» et qu'il serait «irresponsable» que la Coalition avenir Québec fasse un tel choix.

Consultation réclamée

Infirmière et membre de QS, Caroline Dufour, qui a quitté l'urgence de l'Hôpital de Gatineau pour aller travailler en Ontario, insiste de son côté pour dire que le gouvernement devra consulter les gens qui travailleront au sein du nouvel hôpital dans sa planification, tant pour l'aménagement des lieux que pour la mise en place de conditions de travail optimales. Elle voit dans l'arrivée de cette nouvelle infrastructure une occasion «d'innover» à Gatineau afin d'attirer et de garder du personnel dans le réseau. «Dans le plan de la CAQ, je ne vois rien pour améliorer les conditions de travail, abolir le temps supplémentaire obligatoire et mettre en place des ratios sécuritaires», déplore Mme Dufour.

https://www.ledroit.com/2022/03/21/f...63f7855d0e095f

[J.OT13]

Also hoping the NCC steps up NOW to denounce this site and any proposed highway. The NCC is often reactive, raising their voice months or years after a bad decision is made. In this case, they would still be reactive since the site has already been (unofficially) chosen, but they could be reactive in a timely manner.

Of course, the Quebec Government will throw a hissy-fit because the a Federal department is getting involved, but what else is new.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Also hoping the NCC steps up NOW to denounce this site and any proposed highway. The NCC is often reactive, raising their voice months or years after a bad decision is made. In this case, they would still be reactive since the site has already been (unofficially) chosen, but they could be reactive in a timely manner.

Of course, the Quebec Government will throw a hissy-fit because the a Federal department is getting involved, but what else is new.

I have noticed that the NCC generally treads extremely carefully in matters involving the Quebec government, and even the City of Gatineau.

[Harley613]

There is no need for a new highway across Gatineau Park unless we are talking about the most expensive and destructive hospital access road in history. The Westernmost section of the 50 is usually a ghost town all the way up to the 5. The demand between Gatineau and Aylmer simply isn't there, and I can't see it ever being there. Gatineau and Aylmer are essentially bedroom communities of Ottawa, with all the action heading towards the bridges. Can you imagine the village of Chelsea being quadsected by two highways? Ludicrous. The fact that this is even a discussion goes to show that the National Assembly has no concept of what the world is like in Western Quebec.

[SL123]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Also hoping the NCC steps up NOW to denounce this site and any proposed highway. The NCC is often reactive, raising their voice months or years after a bad decision is made. In this case, they would still be reactive since the site has already been (unofficially) chosen, but they could be reactive in a timely manner.

Of course, the Quebec Government will throw a hissy-fit because the a Federal department is getting involved, but what else is new.

I think the NCC took a subtle dig at the project today on their instagram stories. they promoted the need of protecting ecological corridors surrounding Gatineau park. its definitely not a a direct hit regarding the project but couldnt help to notice the timing

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Harley613

There is no need for a new highway across Gatineau Park unless we are talking about the most expensive and destructive hospital access road in history. The Westernmost section of the 50 is usually a ghost town all the way up to the 5. The demand between Gatineau and Aylmer simply isn't there, and I can't see it ever being there. Gatineau and Aylmer are essentially bedroom communities of Ottawa, with all the action heading towards the bridges. Can you imagine the village of Chelsea being quadsected by two highways? Ludicrous. The fact that this is even a discussion goes to show that the National Assembly has no concept of what the world is like in Western Quebec.

There isn't really much official discussion of any kind re the highway.

It is a highly speculative article from LeDroit.

[Harley613]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There isn't really much official discussion of any kind re the highway.

It is a highly speculative article from LeDroit.

Well we are discussing it here and the whole city has become aware of it due to the article. The fact that the land is still put aside for it makes it a very scary possibility.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I have noticed that the NCC generally treads extremely carefully in matters involving the Quebec government, and even the City of Gatineau.

Yes because they will lose if there is public support in Gatineau as the federal ministers will step in.

I would expect a lot of support for a highway towards Aylmer. It is one of the least accessible parts of the whole region no? The 5 from their has excess capacity that would of course disappear but would spread out some traffic. IF we go full electric the whole mass transit thing might be passé.

[SL123]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes because they will lose if there is public support in Gatineau as the federal ministers will step in.

I would expect a lot of support for a highway towards Aylmer. It is one of the least accessible parts of the whole region no? The 5 from their has excess capacity that would of course disappear but would spread out some traffic. IF we go full electric the whole mass transit thing might be passé.

I actually doubt a highway to Aylmer Thru Gatineau Park would get a whole lot of support. People in Aylmer really value Gatineau Park. I think many local group would support the NCC in this fight

[phil235]

Originally Posted by SL123

I actually doubt a highway to Aylmer Thru Gatineau Park would get a whole lot of support. People in Aylmer really value Gatineau Park. I think many local group would support the NCC in this fight

Agreed, and I’ve never heard anyone argue that going electric eliminates the need for mass transit. Electric cars still cost more than lots of people can afford, require a license to drive and take up space.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by SL123

I actually doubt a highway to Aylmer Thru Gatineau Park would get a whole lot of support. People in Aylmer really value Gatineau Park. I think many local group would support the NCC in this fight

Well maybe so and they certainly aren't going to spend a bunch of money if it isn't going to gain votes. Of course their base and target voters might have different views. Building a highway to serve a hospital is really crazy even as a theory.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by SL123

I actually doubt a highway to Aylmer Thru Gatineau Park would get a whole lot of support. People in Aylmer really value Gatineau Park. I think many local group would support the NCC in this fight

Yes Aylmer is very grano.

[Harley613]

It seems to me that Mathieu Lacombe is the minister who is driving this complete idiocy. Nobody else wants the hospital in Hautes-Plaines. It's good to see that Brigil is using their might to fight against this even though they don't have land to sell.

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle...nte-opposition

[J.OT13]

Again, they promised a hospital within 5 years. Four years later, all they've managed to do is pick the worst possible site, and now that's on pause to re-evaluate because, surprise surprise, no one liked the worst possible site.

Took 5-10 years before Harper gave the Civic Experimental Farm Land across the street, but the Feds/NCC did a pretty quick job of changing gears to Tunney's, and then Dow's Lake a year later.

Analysis should already be done for all sites. Based on that, they should be able to just pick the best site on transit.

[DarthVader_1961]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...site-1.6406603