New York’s Empty Storefronts Are A Dark Omen For The Future Of Cities

[10023]

Originally Posted by JManc

I'm an X'er, I never got into Michael Jackson, the Pixies or Sonic Youth either. You're boxing 10023 based on his music taste, not the music he was exposed to. My millennial brother likes G N' R.

I knew guys in high school who listened to Guns ‘n Roses, but they were usually the ones saving up to buy a Camaro.

Anyway there are boy bands/girl groups in every generation. They’re pretty much all terrible. The big shift from Gen X to “Old Millennial” to “Young Millennial” was actually from hard rock to alternative rock to EDM. Radiohead is a Millennial band, not a Gen X band, and even partly made that latter transition from rock to electronic music themselves.

Btw, the young kids just getting into today’s music are not Millennials. The youngest Millennials are now 21 or 22 years old.

Originally Posted by mrnyc

btw why is no one talking about gen z? being 21 now they are officially adults.

This is true. A lot of the music TUP mentioned (like Sam Smith or Ed Sheehan or Taylor Swift) is Gen Z, not Millennial.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

Millennials came of age in a fiscal fantasy time. They don't understand that money isn't cheap. Once they face the new reality that's coming, they won't be buying $15 IPAs.

What we think is long gone, will return once again.

i started my career during a deep recession where my coworkers were getting sacked at the start of their careers...if you want to call that a fiscal fantasy, go for it. a lot of them “bootstrapped” and vastly expanded an entire localized industry and associated supply chain in every city around craft beer.

the biggest fiscal fantasy i’ve seen is baby-boomer myopia.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by 10023

I knew guys in high school who listened to Guns ‘n Roses, but they were usually the ones saving up to buy a Camaro.

They were when I was in high school too.

Originally Posted by 10023

The big shift from Gen X to “Old Millennial” to “Young Millennial” was actually from hard rock to alternative rock to EDM. Radiohead is a Millennial band, not a Gen X band, and even partly made that latter transition from rock to electronic music themselves.

Not so sure about this. I was listening to Radiohead in my late teens and I'm solidly Gen-X and most of the music I was listening to at the time was alt rock. Didn't appreciate IDM/ Electronic until my 20's but the stuff I was listening to the most was from the mid 90's...when Millennials were trading still pogs. That genre was far less mainstream than it is now but def. not a Millennial thing.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by 10023

But I listed to most of your first list, and none of your second list. So your lists are wrong. The second list is especially ridiculous, because some of those are late 1990s and others are 2010s.

You’re probably a bit “cooler” than your average Millennial, though. After all, you own a $10,000 couch

But your average Millennial did listen to stuff on my second list.

And Guns n Roses is not Camaro driving music. People who drive Camaros listened to Nirvana and Tupac as well. Let’s not bash good music just because some douchebags liked it too. Guns n Roses were heads and shoulders above the rock of their era, without being part of the grunge scene.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by 10023

Radiohead is a Millennial band, not a Gen X band, .

Radiohead is a Millennial Band?

Radiohead was formed in 1985, when most Millennials either weren’t born or were still in diapers.
Their first single was released in 1992, when I was in high school.

Give me a break, the music from your generation clearly sucks, so now you resort to simply trying to steal a previous genre of music and declare it as your own...

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

i started my career during a deep recession where my coworkers were getting sacked at the start of their careers...if you want to call that a fiscal fantasy, go for it. a lot of them “bootstrapped” and vastly expanded an entire localized industry and associated supply chain in every city around craft beer.

the biggest fiscal fantasy i’ve seen is baby-boomer myopia.

As did I.

The fiscal fantasy is that everybody expects low interest loans for everything and they expect big returns on their investments.

Craft goods and products became a thing in the era of cheap money. Cheap money has allowed people to spend more money [because it's cheap and it's everywhere and easy to obtain]. Those times are ending. We're in a tightening phase now.

Things are going to change. It will be a new reality for some of these kids that have never lived nor known the world to be any different from The Fiscal Fantasy times.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Radiohead is a Millennial Band?

Radiohead was formed in 1985, when most Millennials either weren’t born or were still in diapers.
Their first single was released in 1992, when I was in high school.

Give me a break, the music from your generation clearly sucks, so now you resort to simply trying to steal a previous genre of music and declare it as your own...

You know that artists can have careers spanning multiple years, even decades, right?

Not to mention that there is bound to be a lot of generational overlap between their listeners.

Rarely do you have an artist, the span of their career, and the age of their listeners all contained within a single generation.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

the biggest fiscal fantasy i’ve seen is baby-boomer myopia.

agreed. my boomer parents were able to buy a house in 1975 for $29,000.

they sold it 3 decades years later in 2005 for $650,000!



i fully expect the home that i purchased last year to go up in value over the coming decades, but it sure as fuck is not going to be worth $10,000,000 in 29 years.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

agreed. my boomer parents were able to buy a house in 1975 for $29,000.

they sold it 3 decades years later in 2005 for $650,000!



i fully expect the home that i purchased last year to go up in value over the coming decades, but it sure as fuck is not going to be worth $10,000,000 in 29 years.

Nominally, one of my sibling's houses gained just slightly less than your parents' house since 2014.


The home value of those that bought a house in 2012 have more than doubled.

Why did this happen? Historically low interest rates, cheap abundant money.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Sun Belt

The home value of those that bought a house in 2012 have more than doubled.

not anywhere remotely close to chicago.

home values here still have yet to crawl past 2007 peaks.

[Sun Belt]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

not anywhere remotely close to chicago.

home values here still have yet to crawl past 2007 peaks.

Another great reason why Chicagoland could/should see days of high growth. It's cheap and there's tons of land even within the city limits to urbanize along with suburban sprawl.

Goes back to another thread on here that stated Chicago is undervalued, rare for such a large urbanized city.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by tdawg

I had to go back and make sure this thread was about empty storefronts in NYC. Anyway you’re forgetting all the shoegazer bands we Gen Xers listened to: My Bloody Valentine, Blur, Lush, etc. I came here to say that we are seeing this happen in Astoria. My neighborhood at Ditmars Blvd and 31st Street has always been bustling but we’re seeing a lot more storefronts near the subway stay vacant and our big, local liquor store is closing up shop. Apparently there’s a Target on the way which I imagine will only drive up rents more.

Yeah, can we get back on target (not Target), at least nominally?

[eschaton]

Since this thread has apparently devolved into listing the stuff you listened to in HS, I guess I'll chip in:

Butthole Surfers, Ween, Beck, Ministry, Tool, Helmet, Faith No More, Mr. Bungle, The Flaming Lips, Nirvana, Primus, Daft Punk, Sonic Youth, Brainiac, Skinny Puppy. Plus some older stuff from the 80s like Misfits, Dead Kennedys, Minor Threat, etc.

My taste in music shifted pretty dramatically in college towards more industrial and electronic music. And then shifted once again right near the end of college/beginning of grad school to indie rock.

I don't listen to much new music these days, mostly because it's hard to find new stuff I like enough. Most of what I do listen to is hip hop though.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

You know that artists can have careers spanning multiple years, even decades, right?

Not to mention that there is bound to be a lot of generational overlap between their listeners.

Rarely do you have an artist, the span of their career, and the age of their listeners all contained within a single generation.

Sure, but when did they start out?

Mick Jagger still performs. Are The Rolling Stones a "millennial band" too?

[JManc]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Sure, but when did they start out?

Mick Jagger still performs. Are The Rolling Stones a "millennial band" too?

They were still cranking out albums and touring when most Millennials were coming into age so yeah, if their music resonated with them then why not? They certainly aren't a Gen-X band either but I know tons of folks my age who grew up with and dig their music.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by JManc

They were still cranking out albums and touring when most Millennials were coming into age so yeah, if their music resonated with them then why not? They certainly aren't a Gen-X band either but I know tons of folks my age who grew up with and dig their music.

well that's quite a stretch -- the rolling stones are the quintessential boomer era band. i think you really have to look at when an act was in its most meaningful era to see where it fits. of course many cross generations, but not in the impact on the culture they had at their peaks.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Since this thread has apparently devolved into listing the stuff you listened to in HS, I guess I'll chip in:

Butthole Surfers, Ween, Beck, Ministry, Tool, Helmet, Faith No More, Mr. Bungle, The Flaming Lips, Nirvana, Primus, Daft Punk, Sonic Youth, Brainiac, Skinny Puppy. Plus some older stuff from the 80s like Misfits, Dead Kennedys, Minor Threat, etc.

My taste in music shifted pretty dramatically in college towards more industrial and electronic music. And then shifted once again right near the end of college/beginning of grad school to indie rock.

I don't listen to much new music these days, mostly because it's hard to find new stuff I like enough. Most of what I do listen to is hip hop though.

im an old millennial (i cannot even spell it) and was vastly uncool in high school...didnt discover gems like mr. bungle until later...

i think i only listened to the same garbage record for 4 years.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Sure, but when did they start out?

Mick Jagger still performs. Are The Rolling Stones a "millennial band" too?

Well no, because they haven't really been releasing new, culturally relevant music in decades (even though Mick Jagger et all are pre-Boomers themselves). As mrnyc put it, they're a quintessential Boomer-era band.

Radiohead's seminal album on the other hand, Kid A, was released in 2000. It would have been something that would have been an important cultural touchstone for both Millennial teens and Gen-X 20-somethings of the time.

[niwell]

Two of my favourite comment section tropes:

1) Everyone younger than me listens to shitty music and nothing good has been made since I was an age which coincidentally I stopped paying attention to new music!!!

2) Everyone younger than me has shitty taste and I can't believe they pay $x for *insert perceived luxury good* (e.g. craft beer, Starbucks)!!!. In this case it's important that "x" increase exponentially in value well beyond any reasonable price with every subsequent telling.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by JManc

They were still cranking out albums and touring when most Millennials were coming into age so yeah, if their music resonated with them then why not? They certainly aren't a Gen-X band either but I know tons of folks my age who grew up with and dig their music.

Once again, just because a band is cranking out more albums and younger generations are still listening to them doesn't mean that said band is defined as being a part of that younger generation.

Black Sabbath still makes albums. But they are a band from the Baby Boomer generation, and that will never change, even though people in their 20s listen to Black Sabbath.

Metallica still makes albums. Sadly, they are still a band from my generation, even though there may be youngsters today who listen to them.