Chief William Commanda Bridge (former Prince of Wales Bridge)

[Richard Eade]

Originally Posted by emannigol

I disagree. Look at the concept photo on page 40. It shows interlining.

Those appear to be old base images. (Remember, that CDP study went on for years so some of the concepts are quite old.) There was, at one time, the consideration to include interlining, but that, apparently, was too complex for the money that was ear-marked. There was also consideration for not-in-service Trillium Line vehicles to be moved to/from the Confederation Line's service yard, but I believe that that has also been abandoned, in favour of separate service facilities at Walkley and/or Bowesville. (Those tight-radius ramps shown in the concept images were for vehicles that were out-of-service.)

Based on the renderings available, the Bayview Station is not being designed with any interlining capability, and will allow only a single Trillium Line platform/track. It is, according to the pictures, being designed to be the north terminal station for the Trillium Line.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

Those appear to be old base images. (Remember, that CDP study went on for years so some of the concepts are quite old.) There was, at one time, the consideration to include interlining, but that, apparently, was too complex for the money that was ear-marked. There was also consideration for not-in-service Trillium Line vehicles to be moved to/from the Confederation Line's service yard, but I believe that that has also been abandoned, in favour of separate service facilities at Walkley and/or Bowesville. (Those tight-radius ramps shown in the concept images were for vehicles that were out-of-service.)

Based on the renderings available, the Bayview Station is not being designed with any interlining capability, and will allow only a single Trillium Line platform/track. It is, according to the pictures, being designed to be the north terminal station for the Trillium Line.

If it is so designed, that is urban planning malfeasance on an epic scale.

[McC]

Originally Posted by GoTrans

TWith respect to the bridge, the Trillium line falls under Transport Canada's jurisdiction so use of the POW bridge and trackage rights cannot be totally denied. I think in the court of public opinion people will be in favour of this rather than Ottawa's attempts to convert it to a multi use pathway.

It would be the Canadian Transportation Agency that would rule on running rights.

See s.138 of the Canada Transportation Act: http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-10.4/page-49.html#h-71.

Also relevant here are ss.140-146 regarding the rules for discontinuing a rail line (as I've said previously, I don't believe that this is a process which the City has actually completed yet)

[Richard Eade]

I must admit that I was a bit surprised when I read the 3-year Plan of the City’s rail assets. (http://www.octranspo1.com/images/files/r...twork_Plan_2012-2015_English_Revised.pdf) It lists only the line from the PoW Bridge to Leitrim Road, inclusive. Does the City not own several other sections of rail corridors that they have taken the rails off of? I am thinking of the Osgoode Trail and the trail from Bells Corners to Bridlewood (and there might be others). Have those corridors been formally discontinued as rail lines?

When the City says that it is planning to "retain" the PoW Bridge, does it mean that it is not selling it, or does it mean that it is being retained as an active rail line? (The 'Plan' doesn't actually mention the word 'active'.) Does an active rail line need to be connected to surrounding lines and maintained in good repair? Is it a waist of money to keep a bridge in top condition if it never gets used? Is it cheaper to let it rot and only rebuild it if needed? When the City says that it "intends to continue the current operation of these railway lines." does that mean its current operation of the PoW Bridge; i.e., letting it rot away?

[zzptichka]

What we know is that City decided not to convert PoW bridge into MUP for now and funding has been reallocated.
Maybe they are waiting for the proposal from MOOSE to run trains over it. Maybe they already have some sort of tentative agreement.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

What we know is that City decided not to convert PoW bridge into MUP for now and funding has been reallocated.
Maybe they are waiting for the proposal from MOOSE to run trains over it. Maybe they already have some sort of tentative agreement.

MOOSE is a fantasy.

[1overcosc]

I like the idea of having the Trillium Line someday continue downtown on a separate route. We might need two downtown subways someday, in which case the Trillium Line could be extended downtown as the second route instead of interlining with the current one.

[Aylmer]

I'm still hoping that the Trillium line is eventually looped around by Hull, down the Alexandra Bridge and terminating at the old Hull Electric terminus under the Plaza Bridge between old Union and the Chateau Laurier.

When the time comes for a second subway, let's make it Bank Street.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Aylmer

I'm still hoping that the Trillium line is eventually looped around by Hull, down the Alexandra Bridge and terminating at the old Hull Electric terminus under the Plaza Bridge between old Union and the Chateau Laurier.

When the time comes for a second subway, let's make it Bank Street.

That ship has sailed back in 1966 when the Alexandra Bridge ceased being a railway bridge. I can't imagine the walkway and bike route on the west side of the bridge would ever be returned to even tram service.

[Aylmer]

Neither can I. But I can imagine the car lanes getting removed

[rocketphish]

City to install $250,000 gates on Prince of Wales bridge to block access

Matthew Pearson, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: August 12, 2016 | Last Updated: August 12, 2016 7:54 PM EDT



Catch the sunset while you still can — the city is planning to install large, steel gates to prevent people from getting onto the Prince of Wales Bridge.

The city’s plan is to spend $250,000 on the barriers, said Coun. Jeff Leiper, who’d rather see the city invest in making the popular spot safer.

The Kitchissippi rep said he and Somerset Coun. Catherine McKenney learned several months ago about the infrastructure department’s plan to block access to the bridge by installing steel gates at either end. Fences currently used to block access to the decommissioned rail bridge spanning the Ottawa River are repeatedly pulled down by people wanting to cross to the Gatineau side or enjoy spectacular views of the river at sunset.

Leiper and McKenney have no authority to halt the plans but “objected in very strong terms,” he said. “The answer to addressing safety risks on this bridge is to properly upgrade it, not to close it.”

Reached on Friday, the city could not provide comment on plans for the bridge.

At one time, the city had money set aside to upgrade the bridge, but the cash was diverted late last year to the proposed Fifth-Clegg bridge over the Rideau Canal, which Mayor Jim Watson has described as “our No. 1 priority” for a foot bridge.

The estimated cost of fixing up the Prince of Wales Bridge — $10.5 million — was more expensive than anticipated and the city never reached an agreement with the City of Gatineau and National Capital Commission to split the costs of construction (even though the NCC’s recently released 50-year plan for the capital calls for the creation of a multi-use path across the bridge to connect Ottawa and Gatineau).

“This is an asset we should be making maximum use of,” Leiper said. “Those river views are hard to come by.”

Leiper says he’s not aware of a history of serious incidents or injuries on the bridge. Instead, he sees it as a popular summer destination that saw its fame increase after a picture of a couple enjoying a romantic dinner went viral last year.

“When we’re looking at the allocation of city resources, the expenditure of a quarter-million dollars is pretty substantial to address a non-existent problem,” he said.

Police warned the public last year after a pair of swarmings on or near the bridge. And that may have worried the federal government, which, according to Leiper, asked the city to close off the bridge permanently.

In one incident, three teenagers walking across the bridge towards Ottawa were confronted by a group of up to five others, who rushed at them and demanded any valuables. While running away from the attackers, one of the victims jumped over the guard rail, falling onto a pathway below and injuring his lower leg.

A second robbery two days later didn’t happen on the bridge, but on a bike path that passes underneath it.

It’s not clear when the gates will be installed. Leiper said he did not know if the project had gone out to tender.

[email protected]
twitter.com/mpearson78

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...n-prince-of-wales-bridge-to-block-access

[rocketphish]

Hmm... it seems that we have two very similar threads on the subject of the Prince of Wales Bridge. Mods, I'd like to propose merging these... what do you think?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=214731

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Hmm... it seems that we have two very similar threads on the subject of the Prince of Wales Bridge. Mods, I'd like to propose merging these... what do you think?

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=214731

merged

[Buggys]

W T F.... Just... wow.... What a proposed waste of money.

People cross the current barriers at their own risk.

There are much better uses for this $. How about putting it towards adding barriers so people don't fall off the side of the bridge? Or adding boards across the top of the rail tracks so that people can safely bike or walk across?

[rocketphish]

Prince of Wales Bridge's future still in the air

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: August 16, 2016 | Last Updated: August 16, 2016 7:55 PM EDT



There is no momentum to use the historic Prince of Wales Bridge for any mode of transportation.

With the threat of closing the bridge to unsanctioned recreational use, it could be years until a pedestrian, cyclist, bus or train traverses the crossing.

Vivi Chi, the city’s manager of transportation planning, said in an email Tuesday there is no active transit planning happening on that rail corridor, since a transit connection is not part of the city’s affordability plan for the next 15 years.

Where there was some talk of using the bridge for a bus connection, the idea hasn’t gained any traction.

“An interim use of the corridor for bus technology and co-ordination with (Société de Transport de l’Outaouais) services would need to be examined,” Chi said. “However, no transit planning work is scheduled to be underway in this corridor in the near term.”

An interprovincial cycling and pedestrian connection on the bridge, which is contemplated in the city’s transportation plans, seems to have dropped off the priority list in favour of other projects.

That leaves a 136-year-old bridge as a nice subject for people’s sunset photographs, but as long as there isn’t money to spruce it up, it won’t be very useful.

There have been high hopes to integrate the bridge into the region’s transit vision.

The City of Ottawa acquired the bridge when it bought the CP rail corridor in 2005.

The 2013 interprovincial transit strategy led by the National Capital Commission considered a Trillium Line extension to Gatineau a “medium term” project between 2018 and 2021.

Reactivating the bridge as a transit crossing and adding a multi-use path are part of the NCC’s recently released 50-year plan. But using the bridge as a public transit connection is considered a “longer-term” project by the agency in the document.

The city’s current transportation master plan doesn’t consider using the bridge for rapid transit until after 2031. Past estimates have suggested it would cost between $20 million and $40 million to fix the bridge for rail.

The city’s cycling plan muses about making the bridge a bike and pedestrian connection by 2019 if the city can split the roughly $10-million cost with the NCC and Gatineau.

Now, the city might block access to the bridge deck at a potential cost of $250,000, money that some would rather see used to make the bridge usable for transportation again. The city is concerned about public safety, since it owns the structure and tries in vain to keep people off of it.

A petition is collecting signatures urging the city to keep the bridge accessible to the public.

Knoxdale-Merivale Coun. Keith Egli, chair of council’s transportation committee, said redeveloping the bridge as an interprovincial cycling and pedestrian connection would cost much more than $250,000.

“It wouldn’t even scratch the surface,” Egli said. “We’re talking in the millions of dollars.”

The bridge would be highly useful for transportation between Ottawa and Gatineau.

There is real potential for development at LeBreton Flats with the Ottawa Senators anchoring the site. If the arena and subsequent mixed-use development come to fruition, there will be pressure to move people easily across the Ottawa River without loading cars and buses on the other interprovincial bridges.

Meanwhile, there is still the outstanding issue of removing STO buses from the streets of downtown Ottawa when the Confederation Line LRT is running in 2018. There is still no resolution on this.

STO spokesperson Celine Gauthier said the talks between STO, OC Transpo and the City of Ottawa are ongoing. Derek Washnuk, the City of Ottawa’s program manager of transit service strategy, said the parties are finalizing details.

The Prince of Wales Bridge, connecting Ottawa and Gatineau rapid transit systems, might be the best solution, but it’s not happening anytime soon.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/prince-of-wales-bridges-future-still-in-the-air

[Uhuniau]

For the love of decency, how friggin' hard would it be to extend the O-Train across that bridge?

There is way more appetite for this than people realize, yet the idea keeps getting shot down.

Why?

[HighwayStar]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

For the love of decency, how friggin' hard would it be to extend the O-Train across that bridge?

Well... for starters, this summer they ripped up the tracks on the Ottawa side from Bayview to the bridge.... doesn't look like they'll be leaving a corridor in place..

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

Well... for starters, this summer they ripped up the tracks on the Ottawa side from Bayview to the bridge.... doesn't look like they'll be leaving a corridor in place..

The tracks would have to be replaced anyway. Where's the corridor going?

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

For the love of decency, how friggin' hard would it be to extend the O-Train across that bridge?

There is way more appetite for this than people realize, yet the idea keeps getting shot down.

Why?

Cost. As the most recent posted article says, "Past estimates have suggested it would cost between $20 million and $40 million to fix the bridge for rail." Then there is the whole issue of who would use it, since most users would have to transfer at both ends of the bridge (Carleton Students being a major exception). On top of that, another stretch of single track would cause even more delays on the Trillium line.

In the end it is a great option for Ottawa to have in its back pocket, but it is just too expensive to use right now.

Some might argue, why not make it safe for pedestrians and cyclists now. While cost is one argument against it, the bigger argument that no one wants to say is that once you turn it into an official recreational path, you can kiss option for using it for rails goodbye as the users would be outraged to have such a critical piece of infrastructural removed. Its kind of like when a developer has land they want to keep for future use, its better to keep it as an eyesore than it is to turn it into a temporary park, as once it becomes a park, no one will want it developed, but everyone is eager to have an eyesore removed.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Cost. As the most recent posted article says, "Past estimates have suggested it would cost between $20 million and $40 million to fix the bridge for rail."

That's not nothing... but it's not much, really.

Then there is the whole issue of who would use it, since most users would have to transfer at both ends of the bridge (Carleton Students being a major exception).

And? The answer to that question is to build it and see.

On top of that, another stretch of single track would cause even more delays on the Trillium line.

That's why Al Gore invented passing tracks. One could be installed in Hull, and another on the island.

In the end it is a great option for Ottawa to have in its back pocket, but it is just too expensive to use right now.

The "too expensive" argument never seems to work against road projects.

And the option is only in Ottawa's back pocket as long as that bridge isn't turned into a "linear park". Once that happens, it's game over: there will never be interprovincial transit beyond basic crappy bus service. Never.