The Independent (180 Kingsway) | 64.7m | 19fl | Completed

[renthefinn]

Don't know what the kerfuffle is all about... close enough to downtown for a big building imo...

[invisibleairwaves]

Originally Posted by renthefinn

Don't know what the kerfuffle is all about... close enough to downtown for a big building imo...

But it's also about two or three long-side blocks away from a handful of SFHs, so....highrises looking down into backyards!

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

But it's also about two or three long-side blocks away from a handful of SFHs, so....highrises looking down into backyards!

I guess those SFH's will just have to be redeveloped.

[dreambrother808]

I have no issue with the development but I do feel that this is a case where they could have shortened the high-rise so as to appease community concerns. I guess the issue there is losing out on high-rise views and the prices they can charge for them.

[PaperTiger]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

I have no issue with the development but I do feel that this is a case where they could have shortened the high-rise so as to appease community concerns. I guess the issue there is losing out on high-rise views and the prices they can charge for them.

They did, from 26 to 19.

What seems to be lost in all this was that the site is specifically identified for a taller building. The existing zoning allowed 13 stories, they are building 19, that seems reasonable to me.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by invisibleairwaves

But it's also about two or three long-side blocks away from a handful of SFHs, so....highrises looking down into backyards!

But that's also the case in places like metrotown or highgate in Bby. or even west-end style houses next to downtown high-rises.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by PaperTiger

They did, from 26 to 19.

What seems to be lost in all this was that the site is specifically identified for a taller building. The existing zoning allowed 13 stories, they are building 19, that seems reasonable to me.

Yes, exactly. The proposal is reasonable. We need to think 50+ years ahead when new projects of this size are undertaken.

[Prometheus]

But it's not like this site sits at the intersection of three busy, commercial, arterial roadways, a shopping mall, and a future subway station. Oh, wait, it does.

Forget 50 years, this development will be perceived as undersized and shortsighted within 20.

[SpongeG]

i wonder if these are the same residents who whined and got the billboards taken off the other tall building almost across the street from this one...

[jlousa]

The problem is the building decreased in floors only, even though it went from 26 to 19 floors it only decreased in height by 2.5 stories as they increased the heights of the floors. If the building were a true 19 floors it would've been easier to swallow. Again the problem isn't the increased density, the area was willing to allow significate density and the plan they for the area calls for intensification, the issue here is the massing.

[mezzanine]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Again the problem isn't the increased density, the area was willing to allow significate density and the plan they for the area calls for intensification, the issue here is the massing.

But I'm unsure what that means. Do you have links to the issues of the proposed massing?

Would be more accurate to say that the issue is the 'asthetic appeal of the planned' massing?

[flight_from_kamakura]

Originally Posted by galeforcewinds

I guess those SFH's will just have to be redeveloped.

haha, yes!

[itinerant]

Originally Posted by jlousa

the area was willing to allow significate density and the plan they for the area calls for intensification, the issue here is the massing.

I would much rather have seen the developer bring down the height of the podium along Kingsway and Broadway so the street-wall wasn't so imposing (4 or 5 'real' storeys at most), and move a taller very slender tower (30 storeys or more) to the SW corner of the site at 10th and the laneway with a setback to allow for street-level townhomes. Perhaps create a wide at street-level opening to the interior of the block on the approach to the tower at centre-rear, and passthru to 10th to make the interior of these blocks more permeable to the public and foot/bicycle traffic.

These suggestions would be a shift in density for sure, by giving much more height with less mass near the ground. This IS skyscraper page after all.

I do not see any reason to make any part of this project emulate the character of a tallish-for-the-time building a block away. Like the Sun tower and Marine Building downtown, I'd prefer to be able to see the old buildings with defining character prominent in the skyline and vicinity, but this should be handled better than slapping on some complementary surface finishes and trying to match heights at the street.

My two cents.

[jlousa]

The massings are the the forms the buildings will take, an FSR of 5 could've been accomplished in 5 floors with total site coverage. Obviously that wouldn't work here nor would it be acceptable.
Rize could've gone with a 4 storey podium block along Watson with a break midblock near the current driveway. Along Broadway they could've gone with a 4 story thick podium rising to 6 storys as it moved east away from Watson and having a 10 storey slim tower pop up at the corner of Kingsway set back a bit from Broadway so not to cast shadows. At 10th and Kingway they could still have a 17 storey tower that fits within 150ft not the current 225ft proposed for 19floors. The above proposal would still housing an FSR of 5 provide conncetions thru the site from Kingsway,Watson and 10th, keep the Watson st character intact and have semi public space in the centre, the only loss would be of the big box retail, which isn't wanted by the residents nor is it in the community plan.

[s211]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

i wonder if these are the same residents who whined and got the billboards taken off the other tall building almost across the street from this one...

Wasn't it the city that was all wound up about the signs? Don't remember it being a "community" issue.

[officedweller]

The billboard was City bylaw issue (enforcement zeal) - mind you, the original no billboards bylaw (and removal of neon years ago) was probably NIMBY inspired.

WRT big box, let the market decide what will work.
What if MEC or Whole Foods (big boxes in eco disguises) wanted to move to the location? Would they complain then?

The funny thing is that people talk about about maintaining the prominence of the Lee Building. I'll bet that the Lee Building was to be "typical" and not a tall landmark for the area (look at the big Post Office that was built for the area - the area was supposed to grow big). It would be cool to see the fork/triangle at Kingsway & Main developed with a true flatiron building of at least 10 storeys.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by jlousa

the only loss would be of the big box retail, which isn't wanted by the residents nor is it in the community plan.

Where is the big box located? There are supposed to be small retail along Broadway, according to the Rize open house boards, so I assume there is a large retail space along Kingsway?

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by logan5

Where is the big box located? There are supposed to be small retail along Broadway, according to the Rize open house boards, so I assume there is a large retail space along Kingsway?

With the grade change the small CRUs of retail would front onto Broadway while the large, full-floorplate CRU would enter from near the corner of Kingsway and 10th.

From what I recall, the developer has a MOU with a Capers/Choices-like co-operative which wishes to open a grocery store in the large retail space. Bear in mind that in the next 5 to 10 years Kingsgate Mall will likely be redeveloped and its pretty much inevitable that the redevelopment will include a grocery store, so in time there would be two across the street from one another. If the Cambie and Broadway area can support a Save on Foods on 7th, a Whole Foods on 8th, and a Safeway on 12th and Ash, and the No Frills on Broadway at Alberta, then I'm certain Mount Pleasant will be able to support two grocery stores across the street from one another and the Marketplace IGA further south on Main at 14th.

[logan5]

A grocery store along Kingsway doesn't seem so bad. Far better than a Canadian Tire or a Wal-Mart, which I associate more with "big box" retail.

Thanks for the info.

[jlousa]

It was rumoured to be East Van Food Co-op but it came out during the council meetings that there is no mou signed nor does the Co-op have funding in place.