Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[SpongeG]

i thought it was going to be completed by 2013 - thats not too far off

[mr.x]

It would be nice if we can get the M-Line fast tracked so construction could begin immediately and we could have the M-Line connected at Cambie/City Hall before the Olympics.

The Olympics are in two and a half years......there's no way we can plan, consult, and build the extension in that time frame.

[Hot Rod]

well, if memory serves me correct, the M-Line would run in the cut for most of the way toward Cambie. I understand there would need to be some tunnel work - but honestly, most of that should already be planned (since this route is NO Surprise to anyone).

I dont see why this can't be fast tracked, and if so - we have something connected to Cambie within a year and a half.

If not by 2010, then how about 2011?

Whatever the case, I think we need it fasttracked!

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Hot Rod

well, if memory serves me correct, the M-Line would run in the cut for most of the way toward Cambie. I understand there would need to be some tunnel work - but honestly, most of that should already be planned (since this route is NO Surprise to anyone).

I dont see why this can't be fast tracked, and if so - we have something connected to Cambie within a year and a half.

If not by 2010, then how about 2011?

Whatever the case, I think we need it fasttracked!

if we started actual planning and consultation right now rather than these studies, i could see the extension done in 2012.

Don't forget that we need a boring machine for the line, and the Evergreen Line will be using the Canada Line's Sweet Leilani.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

if we started actual planning and consultation right now rather than these studies, i could see the extension done in 2012.

Don't forget that we need a boring machine for the line, and the Evergreen Line will be using the Canada Line's Sweet Leilani.

I might phrase that as "might" be using the Canada Line's Leilani.
Or how about "probably won't be?"

The NES line is a perpetual promise...

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Mininari

I might phrase that as "might" be using the Canada Line's Leilani.
Or how about "probably won't be?"

The NES line is a perpetual promise...

haha, hopefully the Evergreen will be SkyTrain. But even if it is, it'll still require the same bored tunnel the LRT is proposing.

[Mininari]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

haha, hopefully the Evergreen will be SkyTrain. But even if it is, it'll still require the same bored tunnel the LRT is proposing.

Very true.
I am poking more at the funding gap, and probability of it being built atm.

It would be cool if they kept that tunnel-boring machine busy for the next 10 years or so...

[Hot Rod]

^ I agree.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

haha, hopefully the Evergreen will be SkyTrain. But even if it is, it'll still require the same bored tunnel the LRT is proposing.

Well, seing how things are done in this city I am absolutely sure that Evergreen line will be something completely different. I still cannot belive that they allowed the use of a completely different technology on Canada Line and 50 meter platforms. Spending 2 billion dollars to build yet another toy train. Just great.

[djh]

Originally Posted by WBC

Well, seing how things are done in this city I am absolutely sure that Evergreen line will be something completely different. I still cannot belive that they allowed the use of a completely different technology on Canada Line and 50 meter platforms. Spending 2 billion dollars to build yet another toy train. Just great.

Thanks for posting.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by WBC

Well, seing how things are done in this city I am absolutely sure that Evergreen line will be something completely different. I still cannot belive that they allowed the use of a completely different technology on Canada Line and 50 meter platforms. Spending 2 billion dollars to build yet another toy train. Just great.

Well most would prefer the Canada Line to be the same linear propulsion technology as SkyTrain, linked with the existing SkyTrain network and using the same trains. But it would be incredibly expensive given that an underground link between the Expo and Canada Lines would have to be made. They go entirely separate routes which allows for a second technology.

With the Evergreen Line, you can easily link up the the Evergreen SkyTrain with the M-Line at Lougheed. It makes logical sense.

Note that taxpayers are footing $1.3 billion of the bill, SNC-Lavalin is paying the $700 million.....though Translink will eventually pay back SNC's $700 million over the next 35 years.

Technology isn't an issue with the Canada Line, it's the absurd 50 metre platforms.

[WBC]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

Technology isn't an issue with the Canada Line, it's the absurd 50 metre platforms.

I know that there was some discussion about this on the other thread, but how difficult would it be to extend them some 20-30 years down the road...

I guess that Vancouver's approach is to use light, automated trains with frequent service as opposed to massive subway systems like the ones in NY or London or Tokyo. The light and frequent approach has some appeal for me (esthetic appeal I guess), but ultimately I don't know how efficient / cost effective this will end up being.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by WBC

I know that there was some discussion about this on the other thread, but how difficult would it be to extend them some 20-30 years down the road...

I guess that Vancouver's approach is to use light, automated trains with frequent service as opposed to massive subway systems like the ones in NY or London or Tokyo. The light and frequent approach has some appeal for me (esthetic appeal I guess), but ultimately I don't know how efficient / cost effective this will end up being.

It would be extremely expensive to extend the stations beyond 50 metres:

- expensive tunnel fans are located on both ends of each underground station, these fans would have to be relocated.
- there may be curves/dips before and after the 50 metre stations
- it will be difficult and extremely expensive to extend Bridgeport Station because of the flyover and track switches on both ends of the station.

You have to remember that the Canada Line 41-metre trains carry 334 persons which is equivalent to a 4-car Mark I train. With the 50-metre extension and an additional 10-metre middle car to to the 41-metre articulated paired trains, the capacity will be about 400 persons which is equivalent to a 5-car Mark I train.

And the proposed frequency isn't at all frequent like SkyTrain. For most of the day and peak hours, trains will be running every 3-4 minutes in Vancouver and every 6-8 minutes in Richmond and YVR. Late evening, it'll be 10 minutes in Vancouver and 20 minutes in Richmond and YVR. That's definitely not frequent.

And I wonder if the 250-metre single tracked guideways at the ends of YVR and Richmond will have any affect on frequency. Could we go up to every 60 secs in Vancouver and every 2 minutes in Richmond/YVR like SkyTrain?

[officedweller]

They could probably short turn trains at Bridgeport if the single track ends impede frequency

[CrooklynDodger]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

It would be extremely expensive to extend the stations beyond 50 metres:

- expensive tunnel fans are located on both ends of each underground station, these fans would have to be relocated.
- there may be curves/dips before and after the 50 metre stations
- it will be difficult and extremely expensive to extend Bridgeport Station because of the flyover and track switches on both ends of the station.

You have to remember that the Canada Line 41-metre trains carry 334 persons which is equivalent to a 4-car Mark I train. With the 50-metre extension and an additional 10-metre middle car to to the 41-metre articulated paired trains, the capacity will be about 400 persons which is equivalent to a 5-car Mark I train.

And the proposed frequency isn't at all frequent like SkyTrain. For most of the day and peak hours, trains will be running every 3-4 minutes in Vancouver and every 6-8 minutes in Richmond and YVR. Late evening, it'll be 10 minutes in Vancouver and 20 minutes in Richmond and YVR. That's definitely not frequent.

And I wonder if the 250-metre single tracked guideways at the ends of YVR and Richmond will have any affect on frequency. Could we go up to every 60 secs in Vancouver and every 2 minutes in Richmond/YVR like SkyTrain?

If it is automated why lower frequency to 10-20 min? Doesn't make much sense, more like 6-12 minutes. The platform is adaquate, the trains are wider, and can handle the commuters during rush. I think the Canada Line will be an over all success, provided the keep the 98-B line for early morning service 4:15 am looping back at 4:44 am.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by CrooklynDodger

If it is automated why lower frequency to 10-20 min? Doesn't make much sense, more like 6-12 minutes. The platform is adaquate, the trains are wider, and can handle the commuters during rush. I think the Canada Line will be an over all success, provided the keep the 98-B line for early morning service 4:15 am looping back at 4:44 am.

I agree, the lowest frequency should be something like 12 minutes in Richmond/YVR and 6 minutes in Vancouver. 20 minutes is ridiculous.

Actually, the 98 B-Line will be terminated when the Canada Line opens since it does follow the same route as the B-Line. The new line is built to replace the rapid bus service, and its ridership will be transplanted onto the new rail line.

[squeezied]

when the canada line opens, the former 98 b-line buses will become the 91 and 95 b-line buses on 41st ave and hastings st, replacing the 43 and 135 express buses respectively. speaking of which, im wondering if there will be enough b-line buses to replace those two routes.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by squeezied

when the canada line opens, the former 98 b-line buses will become the 91 and 95 b-line buses on 41st ave and hastings st, replacing the 43 and 135 express buses respectively. speaking of which, im wondering if there will be enough b-line buses to replace those two routes.

i read somewhere that Translink is buying twenty 60-foot articulated buses.

if there isn't enough, they could always put in some of the 40 footers like what they did to the 99 B-Line last year.

[clooless]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

And the proposed frequency isn't at all frequent like SkyTrain. For most of the day and peak hours, trains will be running every 3-4 minutes in Vancouver and every 6-8 minutes in Richmond and YVR. Late evening, it'll be 10 minutes in Vancouver and 20 minutes in Richmond and YVR. That's definitely not frequent.

20 MINUTES? I was sure I read that the frequency would be no less than 10 minutes. 20 minutes is flat out ridiculous. It's bad enough that C-Train frequency in Calgary is every 15 minutes after 10 PM, and bus and train schedules do not mesh at all.

[squeezied]

Originally Posted by mr.x2

i read somewhere that Translink is buying twenty 60-foot articulated buses.

if there isn't enough, they could always put in some of the 40 footers like what they did to the 99 B-Line last year.

ah, that would make sense. the 91 b-line will be greatly needed as it will take some load off from the 99 b-line during peak hours until the mil-line ext gets built.

well actually come to think of it, why do so many people put up with the crowding and passing full buses on broadway when there are other routes like the 84 and 43 express buses? i couldn't imagine the 99 being considerably that much faster, but then again, i've never taken any of the three buses during mornig peek periods. so then, will the 91 alleviate some of the load the 99 is currently facing? isn't the 91 essentially like the 43 during peek periods? if there really is demand on 41st ave, wouldn't more 43's be supplied? well one question will lead to another, so i'll stop there.