BC Ferries Discussion

[jollyburger]

Transportation minister says building in Europe would have cost B.C. Ferries an additional $1.2 billion

“I know some people have suggested going to Europe. But the reality is, I learned from B.C. Ferries, to go to Europe, to build the ships, it would be an additional $1.2 billion.”

https://vancouversun.com/news/transporta...ost-bc-ferries-an-additional-1-2-billion

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://vancouversun.com/news/transporta...ost-bc-ferries-an-additional-1-2-billion

Makes you wonder why they built the recent ones in Europe then.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Makes you wonder why they built the recent ones in Europe then.

You're aware of how a public bidding process works, right?

[madog222]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Makes you wonder why they built the recent ones in Europe then.

The “recent ones” of this size boat were 20 years ago, it’s not really a fair comparison to look at the Island class.

[jollyburger]

Also, the Chinese commercial shipbuilding capacity was nothing at the start of 2000 in comparison to today.

[djh]

I think that there are some industries that the cost of supporting them should be tantamount over the advantage of taking the lowest cost bid. That's NOT to say that "any price is acceptable" so that inefficient and uncompetitive home-grown bidders can inflate costs and make up numbers because they'll win the project just by being local.

But, for example, the fact that Canada is seriously considering dropping the American military F-35 orders in exchange for planes from other allies, IMHO is a smart move - extra bonus if they can get some of the Canadian industrial suppliers involved in supplying parts to the winning bidder.

Something similar could happen with the ferries. Chinese ships may be cheaper, but everybody would feel prouder if the work (or a significant portion) went a) to BC-based, if not BC then b) Canadian-based shipbuilders; if not them then c) to Canadian allies with Canadian companies significantly involved in procurement. Let alone the secondary and tertiary benefits - construction jobs kept in communities; wages generated leading to communities growing; support industries working to aid the local companies; training of a new generation of ship-building professional at home rather than outsourcing to a cheaper market.

Like I said, we don't need to do everything at home just for the sake of it, but certain industries really have massive knock-on effects that are strategically way bigger than the thing we are making.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by djh

Like I said, we don't need to do everything at home just for the sake of it, but certain industries really have massive knock-on effects that are strategically way bigger than the thing we are making.

I mean in an ideal world it would work that way but I guess it's about how much trust you have in the vision that politicians/civil servants can make at picking which industries to bet on. And not be swayed by regional/political calculations..

I mean we'll know in 20-30 years if the National Shipbuilding Strategy amounted to a great revival of shipbuilding in Canada or not.

[officedweller]

Remember that the FastCats were supposed to spur a whole new aluminum hull shipbuilding industry in BC - which it didn't.
The M-Line vehicle assembly plant (now OMC 2?) was supposed to spur train construction here.

[madog222]

The difference is shipbuilding and repair is a national security concern. The NSS [hopefully] ensures that capability is maintained, it's not really a make work project.
There isn't much spuring of the industry when the shipyards are fully booked with federal contracts with no capacity to build anything else.

[Tysonbrown]

Why are we still buying Chinese crap steel? Victoria went through this with the Johnson Street Bridge. Huge delays because of substandard steel. EBY...SHOP CANADIAN!!!

[casper]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Makes you wonder why they built the recent ones in Europe then.

One of the factors that also needs to be taken into account is the last set of ferries were LNG powered. At the time that was a fairly new technology that most shipyards had limited experience with.

[jollyburger]

RE: shipbuilding capacity at Seaspan (2024)

In recent years, contracts to refurbish or build new ferries for BC Ferries has gone to shipbuilders in Poland and Romania.

There's no question Seaspan has the capacity to build build ferries. Thanks to Canada's National Shipbuilding Strategy, Seaspan has developed its shipbuilding capacity and built up a workforce of 2,700.

Under the federal program, Seaspan has built four vessels for the Canadian Navy and Coast Guard, and will also be building a polar icebreaker for the Coast Guard.

The shipyard may have its hands full right now building ships for the federal government, but in 2028, the company expects it would have the capacity to take on ferry construction, if BC Ferries were prepared to pay the premium needed to cover the higher labour costs.

Dave Hargreaves, senior vice president of strategy, business development and communications at Seaspan Shipyards, said wages for shipbuilders in places like Poland can be half what they are in Canada.

https://www.biv.com/news/retail-manufacturing/why-bc-ferries-can-never-build-ferries-in-bc-9577046

[jollyburger]

If Freeland felt so strongly she should just tell them that the federal government will refuse to license the new ferries to operate in Canada. Or give them a few billion to order them from Seaspan.

B.C. Ferries has drawn the ire of federal Transport Minister Chrystia Freeland for its decision to contract a Chinese state-owned shipyard to build four new vessels for its passenger fleet.

Freeland also expressed concerns about security risks related to the contract.

In a letter to B.C.'s Transportation Minister Mike Farnworth released Friday afternoon, Freeland expressed her "great consternation and disappointment" with the ferry operator.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c...er-bc-ferries-chinese-contract-1.7567723

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

If Freeland felt so strongly she should just tell them that the federal government will refuse to license the new ferries to operate in Canada. Or give them a few billion to order them from Seaspan.

Seems like a perfect opportunity to demonstrate how Canada can stand on its own two feet!

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Seems like a perfect opportunity to demonstrate how Canada can stand on its own two feet!

And in the meantime the ferries continue to age and break down with no replacements in sight because none of the Canadian shipbuilders even wanted to bid on building new ferries in the first place. Why didn't Seaspan put in a bid if they're free in 2028?

And if Seaspan were to get the contract, people would be out with their pitchforks because the contract price would be much higher because, as their senior VP of strategy said, "wages for shipbuilders in places like Poland can be half what they are in Canada."

[Tysonbrown]

Cancel these Chinese built ferries. Canada will wait and happily pay for quality. Remember, they kidnapped two of our citizens and held them for ransom.

[officedweller]

They have already supplied ferries to a Crown Corp in Canada.

CMI Weihai has previously worked with major shipbuilding companies such as Sweden’s Stena RoRo and Italy’s Grimaldi lines to provide ferry vessels to French companies, and has built vessels for Marine Atlantic Ferry Company, a Crown corporation that operates a ferry line between Newfoundland and Nova Scotia.

https://www.biv.com/news/bc-ferries-sele...yard-to-build-new-major-vessels-10789047

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

this is how it works. the west decided to get rid of its ship building capacity, for cheap ships from china. its been a decades long process, and now its mostly complete. unless its for the military, basically china makes the majority of ships.

its the same for a lot of manufacturing. cheap labour, good enough quality, fairly quick construction. easy to do when its a dictatorship with minimal rights. but its what we, as western society, likes. self inflicted. its why walmart is popular, its why i see tons of people getting stuff from temu, shien. its not just politics, its people.

[chowhou]

Ah nice! Seems the MCGA (Make Canada Great Again) rhetoric is finally here. Yes comrade, we should manufacture everything we need in Canada as the government has commanded. See you down at the shipyards!

I'm going to keep my nice office job though, it's some of you people who need to pick up a wrench and start building things.

[ilikeredheads]

time to throw your iphones into the trash since they are made in China!!!
*insert shocked pikachu face*