Retail News

[flar]

^^you're very good at pointing out the negatives. One could also say that Hamilton's distribution of managerial, university, college and low skill jobs is very similar to Winnipeg and Quebec City's, which are roughly the same size as Hamilton. However, the average earnings of those in Hamilton's city centre are higher than in those two cities.

Also bear in mind that much of the heavy industry (including steel mills) falls within 5 km of Hamilton's city centre. This sector was hit hard in the study period. This could skew the education/skill, income and job loss numbers and otherwise make them a poor representation of the downtown employment situation. The low average income for the 25km+ zone might be accounted for by its primarily rural nature and low pay agricultural work.

[BCTed]

Originally Posted by flar

The low average income for the 25km+ zone might be accounted for by its primarily rural nature and low pay agricultural work.

You're probably right.

[raisethehammer]

let's also not forget all the lawyers, accountants, doctors and nurses that work in downtown Hamilton.

[omro]

What is the average wage in Hamilton?

What is the average wage in Ontario?

Just curious in the context of this discussion.

[BrianE]

The City of Hamilton has a good GIS department and they have a good mapping site at : http://map.hamilton.ca/maphamilton/

You can get detailed Census information for each of the wards in the City by using the iMapper tool. Tons of other great maps as well.

Oh and property tax info too.

[flar]

From the 2006 Census:

These are individual incomes for persons aged 15 and over (ie: These are not household incomes!)

Hamilton (just the city, not the CMA)
median income: 26,353
average income: 35,117


Burlington
median income: 34,379
average income: 47,406


Ontario
median income: 27,258
average income: 38,099



For reference:

Windsor:
median income: 25,443
average income: 33,905

London:
median income: 27,275
average income: 36,549

Kitchener:
median income: 28,629
average income: 35,648

Toronto:
median income: 24,544
average income: 40,376

[omro]

Originally Posted by flar

From the 2006 Census:

These are individual incomes for persons aged 15 and over (ie: These are not household incomes!)

Hamilton (just the city, not the CMA)
median income: 26,353
average income: 35,117


Burlington
median income: 34,379
average income: 47,406


Ontario
median income: 27,258
average income: 38,099



For reference:

Windsor:
median income: 25,443
average income: 33,905

London:
median income: 27,275
average income: 36,549

Kitchener:
median income: 28,629
average income: 35,648

Toronto:
median income: 24,544
average income: 40,376

Great info Flar! Thanks

Are any of the places with a lower average income considered better (or are better)?

Are any of the places with a higher average income considered worse (or are worse)?

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by omro

Great info Flar! Thanks

Are any of the places with a lower average income considered better (or are better)?

Are any of the places with a higher average income considered worse (or are worse)?

My opinion of other's impressions/opinions/perceptions (not my own):

- Windsor worse
- Burlington, Kitchener, London & Toronto better

Also, I feel that Kitchener's numbers would be higher if it included Waterloo, as they are essentially amalgamated in every way except local government.

[Millstone]

Windsor is terrible in every respect and we should not speak of it ever again.

[flar]

A few more for comparison:

Region of Waterloo:
median 29,449
average 38,474

City of Waterloo
median 30,825
average 43,862

Brantford
median 26,073
average 32,842

St. Catharines
median 25,114
average 33,445

Mississauga
median 27,788
average 37,970

[raisethehammer]

I think they are all worse.

[fastcarsfreedom]

Windsor is terrible in every respect and we should not speak of it ever again.

Windsor is perfectly nice. Opinions to the contrary stem from the ignorance. I will assume this comment was made in jest.

[Millstone]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

Windsor is terrible in every respect and we should not speak of it ever again.

Windsor is perfectly nice. Opinions to the contrary stem from the ignorance. I will assume this comment was made in jest.

Make no mistake, I'm completely serious.

[omro]

Thanks Flar for those numbers, very interesting! They show pretty clearly that Hamilton isn't doing that badly, the average income isn't that far off everywhere else. So the next question I have is this.

Windsor, St. Catharines, and Brantford - all have a worse average income.

Are any of these set up with much better downtown retail than Hamilton?

If some are, then why have they? And can those reasons be transferred to Hamilton?

Kitchener - is the closest in direct comparison with average income.

How does its downtown retail compare to Hamilton's? If it's better than Hamilton's why is it? And can those reasons be transferred to Hamilton?

[thistleclub]

Originally Posted by omro

Windsor, St. Catharines, and Brantford - all have a worse average income.

Are any of these set up with much better downtown retail than Hamilton?

If some are, then why have they? And can those reasons be transferred to Hamilton?

http://www.downtownwindsor.ca
http://www.stcathdowntown.com
http://www.downtownbrantford.ca

None of these three downtowns seem to have better downtown retail (let alone much better) than Hamilton, but all three sites do make a point of telling you what retail options are actually offered downtown. The Downtown Hamilton site, amazingly, does not seem to contain a directory of stores and services, which seems like a significant oversight for a BIA. That's obviously transferrable.

[omro]

Originally Posted by thistleclub

The Downtown Hamilton site, amazingly, does not seem to contain a directory of stores and services, which seems like a significant oversight for a BIA. That's obviously transferrable.

That's one thing then that should be addresssed, perhaps an email/letter to an appropriate person? Clicking on the main map and getting "this site is just a demo" at the top doesn't look great there. Is the site still a work in progress or has it been around for a while?

Odd that the Hamilton site is an .org rather than a .ca or a .com - I wonder if that really matters.

You're right though, that's something that can be transferred.

It's interesting when you can make direct comparisons. It shows that Hamilton still has a lot of untapped potential.

[JT Jacobs]

Originally Posted by fastcarsfreedom

Windsor is terrible in every respect and we should not speak of it ever again.

Windsor is perfectly nice. Opinions to the contrary stem from the ignorance. I will assume this comment was made in jest.

I've only got nice words for Windsor, too. I lived there for a year in the late eighties, and thought it to be pleasant, with an acceptable downtown, and terrific vantages across the river. Knocking Windsor is akin to knocking Hamilton; they are quite similar, really.

[SteelTown]

When a new retail development is planned, developers look at an area around 10km from the proposed retail site. Often time Hamilton's number is combined with other cities, especially when the retail is located near a major road like QEW, Linc, Red Hill, Upper James, etc.

For example 0 to 10km from QEW and Fifty Rd the average household income is $74,440 and 0 to 5km the average household income is $90,160. Basically it's rare for retail developers to soley look at Hamilton's numbers.

[raisethehammer]

no, none of those downtowns are better.
in fact, all 3 are clinging to their downtown casino's as the only real drawing card. St Kitts is the 'nicest' although fairly dead.
Windsor is nothing special and Brantford is downright lousy.
Hamilton is doing better than all 3 (which ain't saying much).

[omro]

Originally Posted by raisethehammer

no, none of those downtowns are better.
in fact, all 3 are clinging to their downtown casino's as the only real drawing card. St Kitts is the 'nicest' although fairly dead.
Windsor is nothing special and Brantford is downright lousy.
Hamilton is doing better than all 3 (which ain't saying much).

Considering they all have a lower average income, it's "good" they aren't better, otherwise it means that Hamilton's downtown is doing something majorly wrong. Infact this all proves that it's on par.

However, if Kitchener has a much better downtown and only a small increase in average income, then it's doing something right which Hamilton would need to emulate or improve upon. How does Kitchener compare? Better/worse?