The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

And yet, there's not much actual evidence of this happening. Most 2013 Teslas are still on the road. Old Nissan Leafs are still bought and used as city vehicles by seniors, students, etc.

It's not an EV per se but my mom got a Ford hybrid back in 2009 and her relatives were telling her to get rid of it because the battery would die out rendering the car useless, etc. But here we are over 12 years later and it's still humming right along. I'm actually impressed by how well it has held up.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by esquire

It's not an EV per se but my mom got a Ford hybrid back in 2009 and her relatives were telling her to get rid of it because the battery would die out rendering the car useless, etc. But here we are over 12 years later and it's still humming right along. I'm actually impressed by how well it has held up.

I have a 2013 non-plug in hybrid. Battery is just fine.....

Hoping to go full BEV in a year or two.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Utrecht, in the Netherlands, brought back their canals, which were filled in with highways in the post-war era.



https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2...riginal-water/

That is an amazing example of bringing back beauty to an urban setting. I almost couldn't believe the second photo with the canal replaced by a roadway!

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

No need to. They're already doing so:

So the world's population is decreasing?

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

So the world's population is decreasing?

Replacement rate is 2.0. World population is expected to peak in the 2060s (35ish years from now!) and begin declining from there.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

The problem with delivery services is that they are:

1) Expensive, relative to the item being delivered.
2) Inflexible on schedule, requiring you to book based on the stores availability and timing.
3) Requires a different arrangement at every store.

Carsharing is catching on for all of the above reasons elsewhere. Book what you want, when you want, for how long you want.

Should be noted that delivery is better in places with more public transit too. It's pretty basic in North America, because stores generally assume that most customers will drive over and pick it up themselves. Meanwhile, it's routine to get fresh groceries delivered in many of the denser cities of Europe, and get same day delivery of appliances in Japan.

TBH, I've never tried car share, but I have had great service from store delivery. They've always delivered at a convenient time and placed the product (like bricks or lumber, for example) where I wanted it. As a bonus, for appliances they will usually have a couple of young guys with strong backs bring it right into your house, hook it up for you, and take the old one away for recycling. For older people, that can be a godsend.

So car sharing will allow you to have the vehicle you want, when you want it, and where you want it? To the best of my knowledge, I don't think that it has caught on yet in my area, but it sounds like it would be a useful resource to keep in mind for the future. Will probably still rely on delivery services as long as they are offered, though.

Either way, I still don't plan on buying a truck, nor carry large and heavy items on the roof of my sedan...

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This has been mentioned numerous times in the Climate Change Thread. And it still comes up. It's a convenient excuse for the West to avoid any action. "We aren't the ones having too many babies." Meanwhile, one Canadian has the footprint of 40 Bangladeshis. So really, is the problem too many Bangladeshis in the world?

Fertility rates are highly correlated with economic growth and female levels of education (which itself is somewhat correlated with economic growth). As those go up, fertility falls. We're now at the point, where there's only one continent with growing fertility: Africa. Even India has now fallen below replacement and is about to start seeing its population age and decline. And they did it without China's draconian one-child policy. The sooner we can reduce poverty in Africa, they sooner we will see similar trends take hold there.

I don't appreciate being blocked into the group of people who want to use this for an excuse to do 'nothing', but that's OK, I understand that there are still climate deniers on the internet. It would be good if you could understand that not everybody who raises a concern is necessarily one of them.

The only reason I brought this up is that the data indicates that the world is still experiencing continual population growth. While we in privileged rich countries are enjoying all of our luxuries, like cars, refrigerators, electronic devices, heated and air conditioned homes, etc etc, it doesn't mean that the poorer countries don't aspire to live the same kind of lifestyle, generally. To look at it purely logically, the trend will be moving towards more people living 'better' lifestyles and thus using more resources and creating more carbon, etc. It appears that it will be a race to create technology that will offset the increased usage and thus still result in a net decline. If technology loses the race, then the planet is still going to be in trouble, despite our best efforts. This isn't a call to do 'nothing', but just a statement of logic and fact. Of course we still have to try our best and make sacrifices to save our environment - it would be stupid to think that wasn't necessary.

If, as you assert, that population will decline naturally, then it will be good for the environment as well. However, are not most developed nations are still working with a growth-based economy? So I am curious on how that will play out moving forward.

Regardless, it looks like I was wrong in saying that it's an elephant in the room, as from what you say it has been discussed thoroughly several times on this forum - I guess I just haven't read those threads enough (I don't have as much free time to devote to this forum as some members appear to have).

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

So car sharing will allow you to have the vehicle you want, when you want it, and where you want it? To the best of my knowledge, I don't think that it has caught on yet in my area, but it sounds like it would be a useful resource to keep in mind for the future. Will probably still rely on delivery services as long as they are offered, though.

Carsharing is basically: a company places a car in a parking lot somewhere and it's available to rent for a specific amount of time (minimum half hour). You can rent it for a half hour or for a day if you'd like, but it has to be returned to the parking spot you picked it up from. Credit card inside for fueling (cannot be left under a quarter tank) and it's locked/unlocked with a tap card in the dash. It beats having to go to a rental car location. Near my place there's a few carshare spots at a grocery store, in a condo building, behind a Shoppers...

I think Enterprise Carshare has a deal where if you rent a car Monday-Thursday after 6PM it's a $35-40 flat fee if it's returned by 8AM the following morning.

[WarrenC12]

Cars are huge depreciating assets that sit parked ~95% of the time. Car shares can make great economic sense if they are properly managed.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

And yet, there's not much actual evidence of this happening. Most 2013 Teslas are still on the road. Old Nissan Leafs are still bought and used as city vehicles by seniors, students, etc.

Also, there's really not a huge number of "early" EVs. Let's not forget that global plug-in sales were under six figures a decade ago. Heck, I was being mocked on this forum just 2-3 years ago for saying EVs might get 30-40% of sales by 2030. "They are only at 1% now. LOL."

Your last statement kind of undoes your assertion at this point in time. I was responding to the idea that this would happen due to the leaps and bounds in improvements, that have been discussed on this forum, to be coming for EVs in the next few years, with huge improvements in batteries, etc. We haven't seen this happen yet, because we're not there yet. And, as you mention, the stock of used EVs is pretty low, so we don't have any real data yet.

Sure, anecdotally there are lots of older Teslas on the road, but there are also similarly anecdotal stories of people giving up their used Teslas because they have to replace the battery packs and Tesla doesn't provide an inexpensive method of replacing/repairing them. Also, Nissan Leafs have been going quite cheaply, which also reinforces the idea that 'early' EVs will not be highly valued on the used car market.

And, from what I've seen of the car industry, stocking parts for every old vehicle is an expensive asset to hold onto as changes happen quickly and the old-style systems are no longer manufactured. Logically, it wouldn't make sense for companies to continue to service old EVs with crappy range when nobody wants to spend money on them because they can spend a little more to get a vehicle that's five times better.

Of course, this will all level off as EVs become normalized and plateau in terms of performance and new technology development.

Plus, the aftermarket will step in if there's profit to be made from old EVs. Perhaps we will see a new market to retrofit old EVs with new-technology batteries in the future, and suddenly all those low-range old EVs will be just the ticket for somebody who wants a good car on a budget.

Lots of possibilities that haven't been realized yet.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by esquire

It's not an EV per se but my mom got a Ford hybrid back in 2009 and her relatives were telling her to get rid of it because the battery would die out rendering the car useless, etc. But here we are over 12 years later and it's still humming right along. I'm actually impressed by how well it has held up.

Plus there are workarounds to keep them on the road. A friend absolutely loves first gen Honda Insights, and owns a couple of them that he bought for cheap because their battery packs bit the dust. He found a way of rejuvenating them with little effort or expense, and has been racking up the miles on them.

Those Insights are neat little vehicles, by the way. 2 seater, all-aluminum body construction, plus very aerodynamic. It's the direction I'd like to see EVs move towards in the future, by optimizing body technology to reduce weight and improve efficiency overall (which will only benefit the environment even more). Mind you, they were very expensive to produce at the time, and word has it that the company actually lost money for each one they sold.

All that said, it's important to remember that hybrids are still IC vehicles, but just really efficient ones.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Replacement rate is 2.0. World population is expected to peak in the 2060s (35ish years from now!) and begin declining from there.

So we still have a lot of ground to cover before we get there. Thanks for the info.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

So we still have a lot of ground to cover before we get there. Thanks for the info.

Right, but the pertinent point should be that a lot of developed countries have already submerged under the replacement rate required for growth and currently require international migrants to fill the holes. Only developing countries (see: Sub-Saharan Africa) are really producing people at high enough rates to equal population growth like what we've seen in the past. I'm really curious to see what the world looks like when we have negative population growth and countries sorely need warm bodies to remain competitive.

Perhaps they won't need warm bodies at all, or perhaps the world will be more globalized where people could be easily offered jobs elsewhere in the world to fill holes. Perhaps retirement ages are pushed up higher. Perhaps everything is automated anyway. It's fun to consider if not a bit dystopian.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Carsharing is basically: a company places a car in a parking lot somewhere and it's available to rent for a specific amount of time (minimum half hour). You can rent it for a half hour or for a day if you'd like, but it has to be returned to the parking spot you picked it up from. Credit card inside for fueling (cannot be left under a quarter tank) and it's locked/unlocked with a tap card in the dash. It beats having to go to a rental car location. Near my place there's a few carshare spots at a grocery store, in a condo building, behind a Shoppers...

I think Enterprise Carshare has a deal where if you rent a car Monday-Thursday after 6PM it's a $35-40 flat fee if it's returned by 8AM the following morning.

It sounds like a great idea for people who choose to not own a car, but need the usage of one from time to time.

However, at least in it's current iteration as you describe, it doesn't sound like a service where a particular vehicle (like a large pickup or van) will be available to take to Home Depot whenever you want it to pick up a refrigerator, for example. So I still think that delivery services are currently the best idea for such things.

Not knocking the car share idea, though. It sounds great and will definitely improve as it becomes more common and cars become electrified (which will negate the fuel filling issue, as the user will just plug it in when finished, while waiting for the next user).

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

It sounds like a great idea for people who choose to not own a car, but need the usage of one from time to time.

I'm one of those people and frankly carshare is great for something like going to Costco or IKEA, or getting somewhere specific for a few hours that isn't really feasible on transit. Once every month or two, maybe.

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

However, at least in it's current iteration as you describe, it doesn't sound like a service where a particular vehicle (like a large pickup or van) will be available to take to Home Depot whenever you want it to pick up a refrigerator, for example. So I still think that delivery services are currently the best idea for such things.

Carshare, at least the one I use with Enterprise, has vans. You might have to travel an extra five or ten minutes to get to one but they do have them.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JHikka

Right, but the pertinent point should be that a lot of developed countries have already submerged under the replacement rate required for growth and currently require international migrants to fill the holes. Only developing countries (see: Sub-Saharan Africa) are really producing people at high enough rates to equal population growth like what we've seen in the past. I'm really curious to see what the world looks like when we have negative population growth and countries sorely need warm bodies to remain competitive.

Perhaps they won't need warm bodies at all, or perhaps the world will be more globalized where people could be easily offered jobs elsewhere in the world to fill holes. Perhaps retirement ages are pushed up higher. Perhaps everything is automated anyway. It's fun to consider if not a bit dystopian.

Interesting thoughts (yeah, the potential dystopian aspect has occurred to me as well).

That is reassuring, and it does raise questions about whether governments should start looking beyond the continual growth of present times to switch gears and see how it will look in the future when we can no longer depend on guaranteed population growth.

Further, perhaps growth and competitiveness are not really necessary for the country to remain healthy, and maybe we should stop considering economics to be our top priority and instead find better ways of living quality lives sustainably, and not based on consumerism and production of consumer goods.

Lots to think about.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

planning on getting an Ioniq 5. My bf's classmate just got a Tesla 3, she's loving it, now he wants one of those lol.
They look pretty good.

Sofyan Bey at Redline Reviews has a good video on the Ioniq5. One thing most reviewers note is that it is much large than people think. Visually it reads as a Golf-sized vehicle but the wheelbase is the same as a Hyundai Palisade.

• Video Link

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'm one of those people and frankly carshare is great for something like going to Costco or IKEA, or getting somewhere specific for a few hours that isn't really feasible on transit. Once every month or two, maybe.


Carshare, at least the one I use with Enterprise, has vans. You might have to travel an extra five or ten minutes to get to one but they do have them.

Sounds good. I'm sure it will only get better as well.

[Nouvellecosse]

I find this guy really helpful when it comes to the global population and demographics stuff.

• Video Link

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I'm one of those people and frankly carshare is great for something like going to Costco or IKEA, or getting somewhere specific for a few hours that isn't really feasible on transit. Once every month or two, maybe.
.....
Carshare, at least the one I use with Enterprise, has vans. You might have to travel an extra five or ten minutes to get to one but they do have them.

And carshare services are still somewhat primitive over here. Carshares in Europe are starting to go all electric, offer options beyond cars (trucks, vans, etc) and flexibility on return (no same location return requirement). In a city with really good transit and walkability, that can fill in a substantial gap.

• Video Link

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

And carshare services are still somewhat primitive over here. Carshares in Europe are starting to go all electric, offer options beyond cars (trucks, vans, etc) and flexibility on return (no same location return requirement). In a city with really good transit and walkability, that can fill in a substantial gap.

At this stage I can literally bikeshare to a preferred carshare and I don't think I would have been able to say that three/five years ago. Even better if they're electric.