Saint John and St. John's... Confusing?

[Doady]

I think most people in Canada who know of St. John's also know of Saint John. There aren't actually that many cities in Canada, even less in Atlantic Canada. It's like Northern Ontario, if you know of North Bay, then chances are you know of Thunder Bay.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Though I was surprised a google image search for "St. John's Skyline" was overwhelmingly images of Saint John, NB.

This would likely be because search engines are getting somewhat intelligent nowadays, and your IP address and/or search history tells them you’re in Saint-John. I’ve had similar experiences lately (of the type “how the hell did it correctly guess that that’s what I was looking for?”, the answers likely being my search history and current location.)

I’d be curious to have SHH do the same test without a VPN…

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by lio45

This would likely be because search engines are getting somewhat intelligent nowadays, and your IP address and/or search history tells them you’re in Saint-John. I’ve had similar experiences lately (of the type “how the hell did it correctly guess that that’s what I was looking for?”, the answers likely being my search history and current location.)

I’d be curious to have SHH do the same test without a VPN…

I actually turned on my vpn to an an American location and went incognito when I did that search but it still might not have been enough to get an unbiased search.

Truly freaky how google auto fill seems able to read our minds tho

[ConundrumNL]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

That said, the TCH through Newfoundland seems like a pretty circuitous route.

I've got a book that was published by the Federal Government around the time we joined Confederation, full of information and stats about Pre-Confederation Newfoundland, it's an interesting read. One thing they talked about was how several isolated road networks developed across the island (i.e. the Avalon, and Corner Brook area).

The TCH is a very meandering route, but it's trying to connect as many communities and local road networks as possible. I 'think' it roughly follows the same path as the Railway mainline.

[MonctonRad]

The south coast, in addition to being underpopulated, is also mountainous, and has a heavily indented coastline. I think the circuitous routing of the TCH was unavoidable.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I believe it’s you who won’t let it go… or are you ready to admit that there is a significant amount of confusion regarding these two cities with nearly identical names?

You've gone from confusion, to some confusion, to now significant amount of confusion between Saint John vs. St. John's. Which is it? Having lived in both cities, any confusion is minimal. And the mythical new Western NB airport will eliminate this confusion and become the airline hub of Atlantic Canada?

It's pretty straight forward as is: Saint John is YSJ and St. John's is YYT.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I actually turned on my vpn to an an American location and went incognito when I did that search but it still might not have been enough to get an unbiased search.

Truly freaky how google auto fill seems able to read our minds tho

I did your search and here's the first website that appeared:

http://www.gettyimages.ca/photos/st-...ndland-skyline

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by ConundrumNL

I've got a book that was published by the Federal Government around the time we joined Confederation, full of information and stats about Pre-Confederation Newfoundland, it's an interesting read. One thing they talked about was how several isolated road networks developed across the island (i.e. the Avalon, and Corner Brook area).

The TCH is a very meandering route, but it's trying to connect as many communities and local road networks as possible. I 'think' it roughly follows the same path as the Railway mainline.

That is true; though there is a shortcut on a forest access road linking Buchans Junction to the Burgeo highway. It cuts 100km off the drive from St. John's to PAB. Really needs to be upgraded to a paved road to serve as a true alternate to the TCH.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

You've gone from confusion, to some confusion, to now significant amount of confusion between Saint John vs. St. John's. Which is it? Having lived in both cities, any confusion is minimal. And the mythical new Western NB airport will eliminate this confusion and become the airline hub of Atlantic Canada?

It's pretty straight forward as is: Saint John is YSJ and St. John's is YYT.

The confusion isn’t minimal outside of Atlantic Canada, and that’s all I’ve ever been getting at. Let it go, lol

[someone123]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

If the region ever does amalgamate, going with a name other than Saint John for the Regional Municipality would be a great opportunity to try and lessen the confusion with St. John's. Fingers crossed it happens in my lifetime.

They could call it Monctown or Charlotteton.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by someone123

They could call it Monctown or Charlotteton.

I see what you did there.......

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

That is true; though there is a shortcut on a forest access road linking Buchans Junction to the Burgeo highway. It cuts 100km off the drive from St. John's to PAB. Really needs to be upgraded to a paved road to serve as a true alternate to the TCH.

Interesting idea.

I know New Brunswick has done this with logging roads that cross the middle of the province, turning them into secondary provincial highways like the 108 (Plaster Rock-Renous) or the 180 (aka Chemin des Ressources between St-Quentin and Bathurst).

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The south coast, in addition to being underpopulated, is also mountainous, and has a heavily indented coastline. I think the circuitous routing of the TCH was unavoidable.

"Roads for Rails" was the deal/campaign. The highway follows the same route as the former Newfoundland Railway. Presumably, the reasons for the railway being constructed where it was (population, terrain, etc.) would've been the same even in the 50s-60s when choosing a route for a highway from scratch.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by someone123

They could call it Monctown or Charlotteton.

The original name was Parrtown. Considering Saint John calls itself “Canada’s Most Irish City” (which also adds to the confusion with St. John’s, which may or may not be more Irish than Saint John) … perhaps New Cork would have been a good name to go with. No one would be confusing us with New York.

New Dublin or New Belfast could have been good too. The province was supposed to be called New Ireland, but King George III put the kibosh on it at the last minute and insisted it be named after Braunschweig, Hanover, Germany, where that lot of inbred, “British” royals actually hail from. Too bad.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

The original name was Parrtown. Considering Saint John calls itself “Canada’s Most Irish City” (which also adds to the confusion with St. John’s, which may or may not be more Irish than Saint John) … perhaps New Cork would have been a good name to go with. No one would be confusing us with New York.

New Dublin or New Belfast could have been good too. The province was supposed to be called New Ireland, but King George III put the kibosh on it at the last minute and insisted it be named after Braunschweig, Hanover, Germany, where that lot of inbred, “British” royals actually hail from. Too bad.

Donald Sutherland passed away today. He was born in Saint John and lived there until he was around 6 years old when his family moved to Nova Scotia. Every obit correctly listed and spelled Saint John, NB as his birthplace. There was no confusion with St. John's.

To be a true Irish city, New Cork would be Corcaigh Nua! With that name, there would be no confusion with any place in Canada.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Donald Sutherland passed away today. He was born in Saint John and lived there until he was around 6 years old when his family moved to Nova Scotia. Every obit correctly listed and spelled Saint John, NB as his birthplace. There was no confusion with St. John's.

To be a true Irish city, New Cork would be Corcaigh Nua! With that name, there would be no confusion with any place in Canada.

Maybe take another look at the entertainment thread. The LA Times and many other sources according to google said he, and I quote, “was born in St. John, a small fishing village in New Brunswick, Canada, on July 17, 1935.” There was definitely some confusion going on there…

___

As for Corcaugh Nua… not even Cork in Ireland is known by its Gaelic name.

There’s usually very little confusion when places have the same or similar names, but are in different counties, or at least very different regions of the country. No one confuses Portland, ME with Portland, OR… but Vancouver, Washington and Vancouver, BC is absolutely confusing, because they are in the same region. Just like Saint John, NB and St. John’s, NL is confusing to many, because they are very similarly named cities in the same general region of Atlantic Canada.

I’ve never been confused by it myself, personally, because my family is from here, but I absolutely see how it’s confusing to many outside the region, and how it’s absolutely a branding and marketing challenging for Saint John, especially in terms of tourism and immigration. I know you don’t agree, and that’s fine, but just look at the poll results and other posts in this thread… I’m not the only one who thinks this.

Anyways, Sláinte

& RIP Donald Sutherland, one of Saint John’s finest sons.

[lio45]

“Born in Canada in 1935” doesn’t allow for possible confusion, regardless of how you spell the name of the city

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by lio45

“Born in Canada in 1935” doesn’t allow for possible confusion, regardless of how you spell the name of the city

Spelling it St. John instead of Saint John is always going to be a little confusing or ignorant, especially when not directly followed by NB or New Brunswick.

However, going on to describe it as a "small fishing village of 5000 people" when, iirc, SJ was a top 20 city in Canada at the time in 1935, was absolutely a confusing and perplexing choice of inaccurate words to say the least

Edit: ahhh I see what you mean now. right.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by lio45

“Born in Canada in 1935” doesn’t allow for possible confusion, regardless of how you spell the name of the city

Very true. There was no confusion until 1949.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Very true. There was no confusion until 1949.

That one went right over my head!