Entry-Level Mega Cities

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

craigs: "Los Angeles is very walkable, in that there are sidewalks and crosswalks everywhere, etc., but few people walk in Los Angeles relative to other top-tier US cities."

To be fair, craig hasn't responded to tell me exactly what he meant, but I can only go by what he said for now.

IMO LA is walkable, but not walker friendly. I think that's the distinction. One can easily walk all around places like Irvine, even. It just isn't pleasant, so almost no one with options does it. Streets are too wide, no other pedestrians, drivers aren't looking for you, right turns are allowed, little shade, and little of pedestrian-level visual interest.

My aunt lives in Coastal OC in an area with very high walk score, and tons of stuff within walking distance, but there are almost no walkers. There's really no reason to walk anywhere. Even the beach is a difficult, roundabout walk for most, and there's cheap parking right next door, so what's the point?

[Segun]

Anybody who compares an intersection in the middle of nowhere in Virginia to Westwood and Santa Monica because of street widths only is off their rocker, period.

Did you just ignore the fact:
- there are 5 times as many businesses, including walk-up businesses.
- there are actual PEDESTRIANS walking in the photo (that VA intersection probably goes entire days without a single pedestrian)
- It's a small stretch of street interconnected to a much much much larger more vibrant network of streets, as opposed to a few businesses in a hinterland.
- There's constant bus service.

I know we have opinions, but that's no reason to shut your brain off. Sure it's not the Loop, but it's not some random strip mall either. For God sake!

[LA21st]

Yup.
And that intersection has a popular rapid bus line, the 704.
That stretch of Santa Monica Blvd was meant to be a freeway.
I think there's talk of making into a better corridor one day, but for now, any Angeleno knows it's not a walkable stretch .

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Segun

Anybody who compares an intersection in the middle of nowhere in Virginia to Westwood and Santa Monica because of street widths only is off their rocker, period.

Did you just ignore the fact:
- there are 5 times as many businesses, including walk-up businesses.
- there are actual PEDESTRIANS walking in the photo (that VA intersection probably goes entire days without a single pedestrian)
- It's a small stretch of street interconnected to a much much much larger more vibrant network of streets, as opposed to a few businesses in a hinterland.
- There's constant bus service.

I know we have opinions, but that's no reason to shut your brain off. Sure it's not the Loop, but it's not some random strip mall either. For God sake!

First, it isn't in the "middle of nowhere in Virginia", it's in the largest city in Virginia and the second-largest metro(1.6 million). It's not like I picked a streetview from Roanoke.


A "few" businesses in the "hinterland" LOL This is on the most used road in the entire region that isn't an interstate.

Check out the "hinterland" around the area:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Vi...3!4d-75.977985

[Segun]

^ What am I supposed to be looking at?

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Segun

^ What am I supposed to be looking at?

The hinterland around that rural area I posted in Virginia.


A "few" businesses:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Vi...3!4d-75.977985

6-minute drive to the beach and a 12-minute drive to VB towncenter. In the middle of nowhere.

[LA21st]

I still don't understand why Virginia Beach was included in this thread.
Glad I'm not alone .

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by LA21st

I still don't understand why Virginia Beach was included in this thread.
Glad I'm not alone .

I know you are just posting this to feel like you and the 'gang' have such good points but...

I posted it because I am familiar with the area..and ONCE AGAIN(my God), it was said that SIDEWALKS and CROSSWALKS=walkable.

I was pointing out that is false. I could pick a scene from Wyoming if I wanted to, as long as it had sidewalks and crosswalks.

And my last post was me responding to someone who has zero clue what they were saying.

In the "middle of nowhere Virginia" and the "hinterland" were sure signs that the dude has no idea what he is talking about.

[Segun]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

The hinterland around that rural area I posted in Virginia.


A "few" businesses:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Vi...3!4d-75.977985

6-minute drive to the beach and a 12-minute drive to VB towncenter. In the middle of nowhere.

Even with downtown Virginia beach being a 6 minute drive away. There's still 10 times (I was wrong about 5X) the amount of businesses in the immediate vicinity of Westwood and Santa Monica than what you posted.

Furthermore, you can continue on ANY direction from that Westwood and Santa Monica intersection and still see the same level of business activity.

Do you think that doesn't make a difference, or am I just making this up?

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Segun

Even with downtown Virginia beach being a 6 minute drive away. There's still 10 times (I was wrong about 5X) the amount of businesses in the immediate vicinity of Westwood and Santa Monica than what you posted.

Furthermore, you can continue on ANY direction from that Westwood and Santa Monica intersection and still see the same level of business activity.

Do you think that doesn't make a difference, or am I just making this up?

I didn't compare VB and LA based on businesses.

I compared them based on SIDEWALKS and CROSSWALKS.

How are people not understanding this????

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by LA21st

I still don't understand why Virginia Beach was included in this thread.
Glad I'm not alone .

Originally Posted by jtown,man

I didn't compare VB and LA based on businesses.

I compared them based on SIDEWALKS and CROSSWALKS.

How are people not understanding this????

I'd like to see what Craig's response is, but I think you're taking it to literally. I'm sure he meant more than crosswalks.

But you made a strange Comparison , and if you can't see that, I don't know what to say.

You wouldn't think it's weird if someone was talking about Chicago, and someone showed a pic of Fort Myers, Florida?

[badrunner]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

I didn't compare VB and LA based on businesses.

I compared them based on SIDEWALKS and CROSSWALKS.

How are people not understanding this????

The comparison is based on a logical fallacy on your part.
What was actually stated: sidewalks and crosswalks are necessary for walkability
What jtown thought was stated: sidewalks and crosswalks are sufficient for walkability

Once you understand the difference, you'll understand why it was a complete non-sequitur to bring up that Virginia Beach intersection.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by LA21st

I'd like to see what Craig's response is, but I think you're taking it to literally. I'm sure he meant more than crosswalks.

But you made a strange Comparison , and if you can't see that, I don't know what to say.

You wouldn't think it's weird if someone was talking about Chicago, and someone showed a pic of Fort Myers, Florida?

I am sure I am exaggerating his point, but he made it.

No, I don't think it is strange. A sidewalk is a sidewalk, doesn't matter if it is in LA or VB or Chicago.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by badrunner

The comparison is based on a logical fallacy on your part.
What was actually stated: sidewalks and crosswalks are necessary for walkability
What jtown thought was stated: sidewalks and crosswalks are sufficient for walkability

Once you understand the difference, you'll understand why it was a complete non-sequitur to bring up that Virginia Beach intersection.

Craigs said that "sidewalks and crosswalks are necessary for walkability"?

I know this is your attempt to sound smart and have me Googlin' the definition of those words so I can understand your profound point, but come on.

Someone said X, two people agreed with him(with out any explanation), so I pointed out how wrong that statement is by showing examples.

Now, if people want to say sidewalks/crosswalks are necessary for walkability, I'll agree with that(even though there are plenty of exceptions to this rule).

But this WAS NOT STATED at first. Let's recap the conversation:

Craigs: "Los Angeles is very walkable, in that there are sidewalks and crosswalks everywhere, etc., but few people walk in Los Angeles relative to other top-tier US cities."

SFBruin: "I'll accept this."

Quixote: "^ Me too."

Two people agreed with the statement that made no distinction between necessary and sufficient.

Sure sounded like Craigs was saying that SINCE there are sidewalks and crosswalks LA is walkable. In fact, how could you read anything other than that?

Keep up.

[badrunner]

He even said et cetera after "sidewalks and crosswalks", indicating that it wasn't meant to be taken as a comprehensive accounting of everything that's required to make a place walkable, but you took it that way

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Nevermind. It seems people California think this is walkable because SIDEWALKS and CROSSWALKS:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.8508...7i13312!8i6656

I don't believe there are people on this site that think that. However, I could imagine some residents at a town hall meeting saying: "well gosh darn, we don't need no 'complete street' or anything to improve our walkability. We already have sidewalks and crosswalks, this community IS walkable already folks!"

Yup, he did say etc.

And this is his reaction to craig.
Maybe in Virginia they might do that in a town hall, since ya know, they have less walkable areas.

I'm from Nova, so I know. I don't go off a Google map snapshot.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Yup, he did say etc.

And this is his reaction to craig.
Maybe in Virginia they might do that in a town hall, since ya know, they have less walkable areas.

I'm from Nova, so I know. I don't go off a Google map snapshot.

Man, you guys are reaching so hard...HE SAID ETC!!!!! lol

Being from northern virginia means nothing. VB is in a huge cul-de-sac, most people don't go there unless they have a very specific reason.

[LA21st]

Sounds like you're doing all the reaching when you misunderstood what he said. The fact that several people are saying the same thing should tell you something.

Craig doesn't have to spell everything out, most people know what he meant.

[dktshb]

When I saw this thread before I even entered it I realized it was going to be all about LA and filled with the same stereotypical factually incorrect assumptions. There will be hundreds of more threads like this so the same handful of forum members can go on with there same nonsense like "LA is three Atlanta's" or Wilshire blvd and San Vicente is the "heart of the city." It gets so old!

I lived in LA for 20 years and it felt like a large city to me and that's because factually it is. Certainly not Tokyo or NYC. Living now in the heart of SF, which I love, it definitely feels smaller to me, which it should because it is.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Crawford

IMO LA is walkable, but not walker friendly. I think that's the distinction. One can easily walk all around places like Irvine, even. It just isn't pleasant, so almost no one with options does it. Streets are too wide, no other pedestrians, drivers aren't looking for you, right turns are allowed, little shade, and little of pedestrian-level visual interest.

My aunt lives in Coastal OC in an area with very high walk score, and tons of stuff within walking distance, but there are almost no walkers. There's really no reason to walk anywhere. Even the beach is a difficult, roundabout walk for most, and there's cheap parking right next door, so what's the point?

In the context of these sorts of discussions, using OC as an example is rather disingenuous. Come on, dude.

LA’s “walkability” comes mostly from its grid structure, medium-high density, developed commercial arteries, and bus routes. You already know this.