HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #121  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2024, 9:24 PM
benp's Avatar
benp benp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
"Since 2016, according to U.S. census data, more people have left Harris County for other counties than have moved in from elsewhere."

Yet the Census Bureau lists Harris County as the top county in the US for numeric population increase.



https://www.census.gov/newsroom/pres...ains-2023.html
2023 Harris County
- births/deaths net change +34,915
- international migration +41,665
- domestic migration -22,792
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #122  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2024, 9:29 PM
benp's Avatar
benp benp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays View Post
Can we just cancel threads like this based on purely BS sources?
A read through the Houston and Texas reddit pages is a good source of people's opinions, with many hundreds of contributors expressing their dissatisfaction, sometimes hopelessness, that things will ever get better. It has become quite the theme.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #123  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2024, 9:32 PM
benp's Avatar
benp benp is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 665
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilbao58 View Post
That linked website looks like a real winner. From MediaBiasFactCheck:

DNyuz is an Armenian website that plagiarizes content word for word from major news sources. They literally copy and paste entire articles and embed their advertising code for profit. As one can imagine, a source like this completely lacks transparency as there is zero information to be found about authors, owners, location, or mission.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/dnyuz/
It's a cut and paste of a NY Times article without the credits:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/16/u...ane-beryl.html

By J. David Goodman
Reporting from Houston
July 16, 2024
Updated 7:17 a.m. ET
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #124  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2024, 9:36 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cress3803 View Post
‘This Storm Has Broken People’: After Beryl, Some Consider Leaving

https://dnyuz.com/2024/07/16/this-st...sider-leaving/
Quote:
Originally Posted by benp View Post
2023 Harris County
- births/deaths net change +34,915
- international migration +41,665
- domestic migration -22,792
I didn't realize Beryl affected all these other counties. Big storm.

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #125  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 12:20 AM
Crawford Crawford is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brooklyn, NYC/Polanco, DF
Posts: 31,660
I don't think it's implausible that a metro with an ever-increasing frequency of catastrophic storms might have some subsequent outmigration. That isn't exactly going out on a limb. Not sure how bad it would have to get, or how severe the outmigration, but some outmigration (or households choosing inmigration somewhere else) doesn't sound outlandish.

In the present, Houston is the slowest growing of TX's three biggest metros. It was the fastest growing of the three for pretty big periods over the last 40 years. Not sure if disaster frequency is already having some impact, but possible. Of course there are so many other variables, it's hard to tell for sure.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #126  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 1:41 AM
FromSD FromSD is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2021
Posts: 138
Eight of the top 10 counties for population growth are in Texas. Amazing. How does a state like Texas accommodate all that growth when its supposed attraction is based on its low taxes and cost of living? When California's population was booming in the '50s and '60s, the state government spent like crazy to build freeways, reservoirs, state parks and much of the state university system. It also raised taxes, so much so that the voter reaction to tax and spend resulted in the first Governor Brown going down to defeat to Ronald Reagan in 1966. So how does Texas do it? Presumably it helps that the developers of all the new housing going up in Texas foot the bill for sewers, streets and sidewalks, but how about all the other infrastructure that people in cities and suburbs expect? And what happens when all the developer-supplied infrastructure ages and needs to repaired or replaced? The same question could be asked about Florida, another no income tax state that is growing rapidly.

Is it just that people in states like Texas and Florida expect less from their state and local governments and so are content to accept poorer services for a lower tax bill? I do notice that a lot of the new expressways in those states are toll roads. So people pay a lower gas tax but may have to shell out for highway tolls. California, as in most of the west, never went the toll road path, with the exception of a few places in Orange County.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #127  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 2:18 AM
N90 N90 is offline
Voice of the Modern World
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,097
No, infrastructure like roadways and freeways are perpetually under construction all throughout Texas. Same with drainage basins and other storm flood infrastructure.

One area of infrastructure that Texas is behind on is public transportation. That has not kept up with the growth and there’s always so much politicking involved in getting it done in an expedited manner. Houston and Austin’s light rail expansions are both moving along slower than initial timelines. The timelines keep moving further out. Dallas cancelled its D2 Subway proposal due to a lack of feasibility.

And while there is a lack of state income tax there are other means to tax people, which are pretty expensive, a lot of those pay for these upgrades.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #128  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 2:30 AM
3rd&Brown 3rd&Brown is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,494
Quote:
Originally Posted by FromSD View Post
Eight of the top 10 counties for population growth are in Texas. Amazing. How does a state like Texas accommodate all that growth when its supposed attraction is based on its low taxes and cost of living? When California's population was booming in the '50s and '60s, the state government spent like crazy to build freeways, reservoirs, state parks and much of the state university system. It also raised taxes, so much so that the voter reaction to tax and spend resulted in the first Governor Brown going down to defeat to Ronald Reagan in 1966. So how does Texas do it? Presumably it helps that the developers of all the new housing going up in Texas foot the bill for sewers, streets and sidewalks, but how about all the other infrastructure that people in cities and suburbs expect? And what happens when all the developer-supplied infrastructure ages and needs to repaired or replaced? The same question could be asked about Florida, another no income tax state that is growing rapidly.

Is it just that people in states like Texas and Florida expect less from their state and local governments and so are content to accept poorer services for a lower tax bill? I do notice that a lot of the new expressways in those states are toll roads. So people pay a lower gas tax but may have to shell out for highway tolls. California, as in most of the west, never went the toll road path, with the exception of a few places in Orange County.
A long time ago the talking heads decided they would rate competitiveness on a bunch of factors that show only part of the economic picture.

The main one is obviously income taxes. It's a narrative that gets played constantly. But there are plenty of hidden taxes in "low tax" states that get no play whatsoever.

1. Privatization of public services. This started in the 80s, but how many sprawl burgs in the sunbelt claim to have low taxes but then require you to contract privately with trash haulers to remove your trash, a service that is provided by right in other "higher tax" locals. These services are something like $1000 a year, typically.

2. Underfunded public schools. What proportion of low tax states have such low performing public schools that it is in effect, mandate that you send your kids to private schools? It's a hidden tax for many people. I'd argue in much of the south, this is by design. I mean, this is the very basis of Segregation Acadamies. Evangelical Whites pulled their kids from public schools en masse and have been strangling public schools of funds ever since.

3. Insurance (Homeowners and otherwise...I would lump car and health insurance in this bucket as well). Insurance rates across much of the coastal south are sky high and only getting higher. It's not just homeowners insurance that is skyrocketing in Florida. It's also car insurance. I haven't looked at it, but I presume there's no way health insurance could be competitive compared to other states in a place like Texas where over 30% of people are uninsured.

Add to that generally lower salaries (not uniformly, but generally...I know Texas and Georgia are exceptions) are you really better off?

The media says yes but I call bullshit.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #129  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 3:26 AM
LA21st LA21st is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 7,063
Quote:
Originally Posted by benp View Post
A read through the Houston and Texas reddit pages is a good source of people's opinions, with many hundreds of contributors expressing their dissatisfaction, sometimes hopelessness, that things will ever get better. It has become quite the theme.
Reddit is a more reliable source than most of how city residents are feeling. It might lean left in general, but theyll still talk about their problems with homeless, crime, weather, neighborhoods, economies, transit etc. For those things/topics, its pretty centered and level headed discussion at its core.

When a large number of people of any city say they want to leave on those kinds of platforms, its pretty real. I remember the leaving Calfornia and NY thing during covid stuff, and it was pretty accurate. Now thats reversed and that same stuff is being said that about FL and Texas. It shouldnt be ignored and youll probably see a swing in data in 2 years or so.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #130  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 6:53 AM
Reverberation's Avatar
Reverberation Reverberation is offline
disorient yourself?
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Diaspora
Posts: 4,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by JManc View Post
If my wife and I didn't have our mothers here (mid 70's), we'd probably consider leaving the Houston area. Our homeowners insurance premium is very high but the deductible for hurricane damage still wouldn't cover the losses from Beryl so we're paying for everything out of pocket...tens of thousands. I anticipate more and more wild and crazy weather; freezes, freak storms, drought and more hurricanes compusned with exorbitant insurance premiums.
Beryl came six weeks after a near equally powerful derecho. All of the lines that came down were probably patched but not repaired. Usually most years you don’t have two major wind events so close together.
__________________
RT60
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #131  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 3:03 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,164
Quote:
Originally Posted by benp View Post
2023 Harris County
- births/deaths net change +34,915
- international migration +41,665
- domestic migration -22,792
Yeah, Houston is doing fine for now. This forum tends to grossly overstate how much domestic migration patterns affect growth in major cities. Much of the growth in major metros is driven by immigration.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #132  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 3:29 PM
DCReid DCReid is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,147
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Yeah, Houston is doing fine for now. This forum tends to grossly overstate how much domestic migration patterns affect growth in major cities. Much of the growth in major metros is driven by immigration.
Seems to be doing fine for now. Don't think big storms impact population growth as much as economics does - in Houston's case, still energy. You are right that much of major metros get their growth now by immigration, but the TX ones still have high births and generally positive domestic net migration. It is very telling that Dallas, part of the fastest growing major metro area in the US, has had negative growth in its county. That probably due to the migration pattern favoring the suburbs and exurbs around it. It seems that Houston may be heading in that same trend.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #133  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 3:48 PM
iheartthed iheartthed is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 10,164
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCReid View Post
Seems to be doing fine for now. Don't think big storms impact population growth as much as economics does - in Houston's case, still energy. You are right that much of major metros get their growth now by immigration, but the TX ones still have high births and generally positive domestic net migration. It is very telling that Dallas, part of the fastest growing major metro area in the US, has had negative growth in its county. That probably due to the migration pattern favoring the suburbs and exurbs around it. It seems that Houston may be heading in that same trend.
Dallas and Harris counties are almost exactly the same density, so the growth trajectories of the counties will probably trend similar without some major game changer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #134  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 3:51 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
In the present, Houston is the slowest growing of TX's three biggest metros. It was the fastest growing of the three for pretty big periods over the last 40 years. Not sure if disaster frequency is already having some impact, but possible. Of course there are so many other variables, it's hard to tell for sure.
What am I missing here? Do you mean by percentage of population? By sheer numbers, Metro Houston is second in the country behind DFW. And while DFW's growth rate slowed in 2022-23, Houston's accelerated.



Also by sheer numbers, Harris County had the highest growth in the country. Two other Houston metro counties are in the top 10.

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #135  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 4:03 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
Yeah, Houston is doing fine for now. This forum tends to grossly overstate how much domestic migration patterns affect growth in major cities. Much of the growth in major metros is driven by immigration.
Those numbers you quoted were posted to support the claim that existing Houstonians are leaving in droves, and Americans from outside the area are not moving in either (the dreaded net negative domestic migration) ostensibly because of recent natural disasters. Or so the theory goes. The problem with that theory is Houston's not even being in the top 10 cities with net negative domestic migration. Maybe the numbers are just not in yet...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #136  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 4:21 PM
C. C. is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 3,091
I was reading that Toronto flooded pretty bad yesterday. I was reminded that when Houston flooded recently, people pointed to bad planning for the reason. I never thought that was a fare characterization. Yet Toronto, a city known for having excessive planning and regulations, floods just as easy without the help of a tropical storm. More nuanced, our cities were built for a climate that no longer exists. And no city is safe.

Unfortunately, the flooding problem is only going to get worse and not be unique to Houston. NFIP solvency is going to be an issue!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #137  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 5:31 PM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is online now
Dryer lint inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 38,692
I really don't see the climate driving too many people out of the Houston area as the reasons for moving here are far more compelling and the rest of the country is also experiencing more extreme weather. My hometown had tornadoes two weeks in a row and the most recent one was particularly bad and this is becoming more common.
__________________
Sprawling on the fringes of the city in geometric order, an insulated border in-between the bright lights and the far, unlit unknown. (Neil Peart)
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #138  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 5:54 PM
vetteking's Avatar
vetteking vetteking is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2023
Location: JXN Mississippi
Posts: 907
Its because of the consistent power outages is what I've heard from friends/family who have left! Also they don't agree with the state governments policies on just about everything. I don't know why Texas won't join the rest of the countries power grid smh
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #139  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 6:25 PM
bilbao58's Avatar
bilbao58 bilbao58 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Homesick Houstonian in San Antonio
Posts: 1,855
Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteking View Post
I don't know why Texas won't join the rest of the countries power grid smh
Being connected to the other power grids definitely would have helped the state during the big freeze of 2021 when the issue was power generation. It wouldn't make any difference whatsoever in situations like the Houston derecho or Hurricane Beryl where the problem is disrupted transmission and distribution networks (i.e. widespread downing of power lines).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #140  
Old Posted Jul 17, 2024, 6:55 PM
JManc's Avatar
JManc JManc is online now
Dryer lint inspector
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 38,692
Quote:
Originally Posted by vetteking View Post
Its because of the consistent power outages is what I've heard from friends/family who have left! Also they don't agree with the state governments policies on just about everything. I don't know why Texas won't join the rest of the countries power grid smh
Because it would mean federal oversight (interstate commerce clause) and Texas wants to retain control over its grid.
__________________
Sprawling on the fringes of the city in geometric order, an insulated border in-between the bright lights and the far, unlit unknown. (Neil Peart)
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > City Discussions
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:21 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.