Highway 417 Widening

[rocketphish]

Looks like the 417 has reopened ahead of schedule.

[MichelKazan]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

Rideau was jammed up but otherwise traffic wasn't bad last night despite everything going on. A lot different from when the Gardiner is closed in Toronto.

It also didn't help that Beechwood was closed for a Summer Solstice festival.

[rocketphish]

Wow, that really is a lot of extra capacity... double what we have now. Nice.
And note all the spans of the new pedestrian bridge in the background

Hurdman bridge:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/tra..._cameras.shtml

[bobert_d]

Here, thought you guys would enjoy these:

Yesterday afternoon:





This morning:





All pictures by me.

Click for access to bigger versions on Imgur

[BenTheGreat97]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Wow, that really is a lot of extra capacity... double what we have now. Nice.
And note all the spans of the new pedestrian bridge in the background

Hurdman bridge:

http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/tra..._cameras.shtml

Are they really going to fill all this out with extra lanes? Because that would be awesome, having what appears to be room for 12 lanes through that segment! I really wish the highway was originally designed to have 12-16 lanes originally though.

[1overcosc]

My guess is that they want swing space, so that way the entire existing bridge span can be closed, and all 3 lanes moved onto the extension piece, to allow for the existing bridge to be rehabilitated. Keep in mind that Hurdman bridge normally has merge lanes on it (it doesn't now with the temporary shortening of them due to construction) so it actually requires 10 lanes of space, so when you add in a nice big shoulder it won't be that crazy.

It's been consistently stated numerous times by the MTO that the 417 can never go beyond 8 lanes due to ROW issues, and other bridges in the immediate area are definitely being designed with a limit of 8. It's one of the reasons why Ottawa now has to look to transit expansion, we're no longer able to widen the highway any more. Thankfully the LRT is coming just in time.

[waterloowarrior]

^ yep

After this summer they will switch to working on the middle of the bridge

http://queenswayexpansioneast.com/re...0Sheet%201.pdf

At the end of all this work we will have 10 lanes over the bridge. There will be two lanes entering the highway from Nicholas/Lees going east, the left lane becoming the 4th lane as it enters the highway (and can still exit at Vanier/Riverside), the right lane exiting at Vanier/Riverside

http://queenswayexpansioneast.com/re...0Sheet%201.pdf

[Catenary]

I'm somewhat disappointed that the bridge replacement at Lees didn't lead to the realignment of the road, straightening the area out and connecting some of the roads that were broken when the Queensway was built. This would create a nicer neighborhood, better for development and use of the LRT. A straight bridge would have been cheaper to build, and then Robinson Avenue and Lees could meet and Hurdman road could be extended to reestablish a grid in the area. This is a rare opportunity that has now been missed.

[Capital Shaun]

Originally Posted by BenTheGreat97

And I really have no idea why some bridges were designed with no expansion room at all. What were they thinking? Reminds me a bit of the old bridges along the 401 where they barely fit 4 lanes under them.

It was probably built when the highway was only 6 lanes wide. There's now 8 lanes under there. Not to excuse them of this but the engineers back then maybe never envisioned needing room for 10 or 12 lanes under Lees.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

It was probably built when the highway was only 6 lanes wide. There's now 8 lanes under there. Not to excuse them of this but the engineers back then maybe never envisioned needing room for 10 or 12 lanes under Lees.

I also don't think anyone wants 12 lanes of highway through the middle of the central city.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I'm somewhat disappointed that the bridge replacement at Lees didn't lead to the realignment of the road, straightening the area out and connecting some of the roads that were broken when the Queensway was built. This would create a nicer neighborhood, better for development and use of the LRT. A straight bridge would have been cheaper to build, and then Robinson Avenue and Lees could meet and Hurdman road could be extended to reestablish a grid in the area. This is a rare opportunity that has now been missed.

I was thinking this as well. That big loop on Lees seems like a big waste. By going straight across, it would seem that they could create some parcels of developable land. I'm not sure why they couldn't go straight across.

[BenTheGreat97]

Originally Posted by phil235

I also don't think anyone wants 12 lanes of highway through the middle of the central city.

I, and many others especially those on this forum, would want AT LEAST 12 lanes of highway 417 running from the 416 to the 174 in a collector-express design like the 401 through Toronto.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by Catenary

I'm somewhat disappointed that the bridge replacement at Lees didn't lead to the realignment of the road, straightening the area out and connecting some of the roads that were broken when the Queensway was built. This would create a nicer neighborhood, better for development and use of the LRT. A straight bridge would have been cheaper to build, and then Robinson Avenue and Lees could meet and Hurdman road could be extended to reestablish a grid in the area. This is a rare opportunity that has now been missed.

Lees Avenue once connected directly to Chapel Street - take a look at the 1991 aerial photos on geoottawa.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by BenTheGreat97

I, and many others especially those on this forum, would want AT LEAST 12 lanes of highway 417 running from the 416 to the 174 in a collector-express design like the 401 through Toronto.

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Lees Avenue once connected directly to Chapel Street - take a look at the 1991 aerial photos on geoottawa.

I highly recommend reading the cultural heritage evaluation reports for this phase of the widening... lots of great history, photos, and old plans

http://queenswayexpansioneast.com/pr...presentations/

The old Vanier Parkway interchange is impressive... you could get to the train station right from the highway... just watch out for weaving and occasional dizziness! Best of luck to pedestrians and cyclists trying to cross this thing.

[1overcosc]

^ That thing is unbelievably disgusting. So glad it isn't still around today. Also holy crap was that whole area empty back then. Now with the Transitway, the baseball stadium, the apartments around Hurdman... it's much more filled in. I think I finally understand why older people talk about the train station being in the middle of nowhere when it really isn't....

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by waterloowarrior

I highly recommend reading the cultural heritage evaluation reports for this phase of the widening... lots of great history, photos, and old plans

I agree the report is really interesting, but people wonder why infrastructure projects take so long and cost so much, I wonder if the requirement to do such a detailed analysis to upgrade a generic 20th century highway overpass is indicative of a process gone awry. It's not exactly the Applian Way.

[phil235]

Originally Posted by BenTheGreat97

I, and many others especially those on this forum, would want AT LEAST 12 lanes of highway 417 running from the 416 to the 174 in a collector-express design like the 401 through Toronto.

The 401 doesn't run through downtown Toronto.

A design like that is terrible urban planning. Just think of the barrier that a 12-lane highway would create between urban neighbourhoods. Can you name another city that has a 12-lane highway running through downtown? There is a reason for that.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by phil235

The 401 doesn't run through downtown Toronto.

A design like that is terrible urban planning. Just think of the barrier that a 12-lane highway would create between urban neighbourhoods. Can you name another city that has a 12-lane highway running through downtown? There is a reason for that.

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the excessively car-cult US cities like Dallas had that, but they'd be the ones we shouldn't be emulating.

[umbria27]

Originally Posted by phil235

The 401 doesn't run through downtown Toronto.

A design like that is terrible urban planning. Just think of the barrier that a 12-lane highway would create between urban neighbourhoods. Can you name another city that has a 12-lane highway running through downtown? There is a reason for that.

Agreed, widening the 417 to 12 lanes through downtown would be disastrous. It would only enable more sprawl. The city should strenuously resist any more widening to the Queensway.
I suppose there are people on the outskirts of Toronto who would like the Gardner expanded to 12 lanes too.