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Originally Posted by Leo the Dog
This is a comment I would have expected on AZCentral
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That's uncalled for. Let me be more specific then. It's this post that I was referring to when I brought up non-native trees.
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Originally Posted by Leo the Dog
We don't need mesquites, bottle trees, shoe string acacia etc...
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I agree with Hoover that mesquites provide fine shade, but since you used them as a specific example of what you don't want I assumed you meant non-native trees.
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Originally Posted by Leo the Dog
A mister does the same exact thing. It isn't going to turn Phx into Miami. This is a comment I would have expected on AZCentral. Its like saying, we need to stop building swimming pools because its becoming a swamp here. Phoenix actually used to have much more turf and shade trees in its past. Y'know, back when it used to cool off at night.
The trees would have zero effect on the humidity level here. Yes they do release water through their leaves at night, and yes it does cool off their surroundings. Arcadia cools off to say 75 degrees, while DT is baking at 88, which would you prefer?
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Yes a mister does the exact same thing, and no, I don't like them either. I hate walking down Mill when they have all the misters out, it just makes it muggy and disgusting feeling. And yes, I do think we need to build fewer swimming pools here.
Trees do not have zero effect. Increasing humidity is precisely how they cool off the air around them (evaporating water absorbs heat), it's not magic. No, it's not much, but compounded over millions of trees over the entire valley and it starts to build up. It's not going to turn Phoenix into Miami, but it sure as hell could turn Phoenix in june into Phoenix in August. Maybe it's just me, but Phoenix is absolutely miserable when the monsoon's here in august, I'll take 110 in June any day over 110 in August.
The heat island is caused by many factors, but humidity is actually a part of it. Part of the reason it cools off less now than it used to is exactly because of the swimming pools and country clubs that raise the humidity, which acts like an insulator and keeps the heat in at night. It's the same reason the temperature doesn't drop as much on a cloudy night. Sure it feels better right next to the grass or right under the tree, but it also affects the larger climate of the valley. Everything you do has a consequence. Maybe you think the consequence is worth it, but it's asinine to ignore the optential consequences.
That really wasn't my main point in the first place though. The main reasons to stick with native plants wherever possible are water usage and to a lesser extent, aesthetic (I like cactuses and mesquites and palo verdes... that's why I live in Phoenix).
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Originally Posted by combusean
I firmly believe that the water used by planting even non-native species would be made up substantially if not an ultimate net positive by reductions in the heat island effect. Anybody who bitches about how much water grass uses hasn't walked downtown on a summer's night and felt the substantial cooling differences provided by even a tiny plot of green compared to rocks and asphalt. It's worth it.
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Non-native trees use substantially more water than native trees like mesquite trees. You can plant and cool the area off using native species far more efficiently. Phoenix uses drastically more water than is replenished. We need to be finding ways to reduce our water usage, not ways to use more. It's like getting your paycheck and thinking of the coolest new stuff you can buy rather than paying attention to your growing credit card bills. I'm all for planting more... lots more... trees around the city, but they need to be low water, preferably native trees.