The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[White Pine]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

There are things Toronto could learn from Vancouver. For instance... ATC does work, and work well.

It would be great if you took each city with higher order transit and give things they could learn from other cities.

A little quibble with this: I haven't seen any evidence that anybody thinks ATC won't work. They're already upgrading Line 1 to install it.

However, I won't disagree with your main point. We could learn that elevated transit won't kill babies, and maybe it might be worth looking at a regional transportation system for the GTA.

EDIT: Unless by ATC you mean automated... then that would be a real culture shift...

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

It would be great if you took each city with higher order transit and give things they could learn from other cities.

That's a good idea. Go through each city and say what they do better than everyone else.

Montreal and its amazing, but not overkill stations.
Ottawa and its double elevators.
Toronto and its streetcars and commuter rail (though that's provincial).
Vancouver and its delicate balance of grade separation.

I'm not quite familiar enough with Edmonton, Calgary and Kitchener-Waterloo to list anything.

[Chadillaccc]

Calgary - having the most expansive system per capita in the country, one of the tops in NA - 1 km per 22 000 people - spanning to near the edge of the urban area at all four termini.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Calgary - having the most expansive system per capita in the country, one of the tops in NA - 1 km per 22 000 people - spanning to near the edge of the urban area at all four termini.

That. And already planning a third line that will (eventually) do the same.

Edmonton is a bit behind, but is essentially doing the same thing. Solid progress in the last 10 years.

[Coldrsx]

Phase 2 feasibility underway.

https://twitter.com/prairieskygondo/status/1251971945186250753

[MalcolmTucker]

^^ Love it. Wish it was treated as part of the transit network - but that can always be solved later

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Edmonton is a bit behind, but is essentially doing the same thing. Solid progress in the last 10 years.

The two systems are a category apart in both length and ridership, but only because they initially put all of their financial eggs into the subway basket. Even though that's very nice, and I looove their PoMo subway stations, it's odd now since they're doing surface LRT anyways.

[Coldrsx]

^ridership per km? I haven't looked in a while, but are we not pretty close?

With the Valley Line SE we are not that far away from you big guy...

Oh yeah, by the way, we have a subway

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

^^ Love it. Wish it was treated as part of the transit network - but that can always be solved later

It will be/has to be to make the numbers work. There would be some sort of Shared Use Agreement with ETS.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

Calgary - having the most expansive system per capita in the country, one of the tops in NA - 1 km per 22 000 people - spanning to near the edge of the urban area at all four termini.

What exactly does taking the number of kilometers of subways and dividing it by population mean? Does it make it the presumptuous best system in Canada? I'm not convinced. It's undeniably the system to take from suburbia to the downtown core in Canada but, that's very one dimensional to base a system on especially now. It's not a walkable, localized system at all. The supportive systems aren't either. Big business is being forced to adapt to new technologies given the current situation. The need for mass commuter systems to primary and secondary business centres may permanently have diminished.

[MalcolmTucker]

^ Edmonton missed a few opportunities in the early 90s to secure railway ROW to the NW which would have helped them grow faster, but alas. They city hated their surface rail infrastructure downtown so much it made them myopic to potential opportunities - any remaining surface rail was a blight to be removed, and no additions were considered.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Phase 2 feasibility underway.

What about phase 1? Is it going ahead?

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

What about phase 1? Is it going ahead?

Phase 1 was completed last fall...

TBD

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Phase 1 was completed last fall...

TBD

I'm confused. Phase 2 is not an extension on Phase 1 and this is just another round of planning? Or does a line already existing in Edmonton?

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I'm confused. Phase 2 is not an extension on Phase 1 and this is just another round of planning? Or does a line already existing in Edmonton?

For the proposed gondola, they had to do a phase 1 or initial feasibility to get discussion going at Council, with investors etc.

Now for the more detailed version to look at costing, engineering, various ridership scenarios etc.

[scryer]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Phase 2 feasibility underway.

https://twitter.com/prairieskygondo/status/1251971945186250753

Vancouver is going to so pissed if some Prairie city gets an aerial gondola before the Production Way-University > Burnaby Mountain connection . Oh well, I'm happy to have healthy competition across provinces.

Montreal and its amazing, but not overkill stations.
Ottawa and its double elevators.
Toronto and its streetcars and commuter rail (though that's provincial).
Vancouver and its delicate balance of grade separation. - Can we add in "cheapest rapid transit system to operate" as well?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by White Pine

A little quibble with this: I haven't seen any evidence that anybody thinks ATC won't work. They're already upgrading Line 1 to install it.

However, I won't disagree with your main point. We could learn that elevated transit won't kill babies, and maybe it might be worth looking at a regional transportation system for the GTA.

EDIT: Unless by ATC you mean automated... then that would be a real culture shift...

Automated is what I mean. The Skytrain is driverless. The staff are just checking for fare evaders. And, yes, it would be a major culture shift.

Originally Posted by J.OT13

That's a good idea. Go through each city and say what they do better than everyone else.

Montreal and its amazing, but not overkill stations.
Ottawa and its double elevators.
Toronto and its streetcars and commuter rail (though that's provincial).
Vancouver and its delicate balance of grade separation.

I'm not quite familiar enough with Edmonton, Calgary and Kitchener-Waterloo to list anything.

I would add that all cites can learn from Toronto and Montreal about building and expanding their Regional/Commuter rail systems. It still annoys me that the WCE is virtually unchanged from it's opening day.

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

What exactly does taking the number of kilometers of subways and dividing it by population mean? Does it make it the presumptuous best system in Canada? I'm not convinced. It's undeniably the system to take from suburbia to the downtown core in Canada but, that's very one dimensional to base a system on especially now. It's not a walkable, localized system at all. The supportive systems aren't either. Big business is being forced to adapt to new technologies given the current situation. The need for mass commuter systems to primary and secondary business centres may permanently have diminished.

If we were to look t the best transit systems, they usually have the most lines and the most km of track.

[Chadillaccc]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

What exactly does taking the number of kilometers of subways and dividing it by population mean? Does it make it the presumptuous best system in Canada? I'm not convinced. It's undeniably the system to take from suburbia to the downtown core in Canada but, that's very one dimensional to base a system on especially now. It's not a walkable, localized system at all. The supportive systems aren't either. Big business is being forced to adapt to new technologies given the current situation. The need for mass commuter systems to primary and secondary business centres may permanently have diminished.

I didn't say it was the best of anything. Just the most expansive network in the country relative to the population of the city. Being a metro of 1.6 million with 60 km of rapid transit and 20 more on the way when the three metros larger than yours are 2, 3, and 5 times the size but only 15-20 km more in trackage (not counting provincially funded commuter rail obviously), is pretty impressive. Regardless of how badly you'd like to spin it the other direction.

Also, yes it is a walkable system relative to other NA LRT systems. It didn't used to be, but the strides towards making it such have been pretty impressive over the past decade. Obviously a lot more work to do, as with any city. The supportive systems, also are of course walkable as well, namely the new BRT network. In your mind I'm sure "walkable" means it must pass through inner city Toronto levels of population density to connect to the rail transit network, but that doesn't exist here. The density that it goes through is perfectly fine as far as walkability for a city Calgary's size goes.

Did you not even glance at the post that I was responding to? I was just providing a point on the Ctrain to contribute to the three points he had made about Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver, and Ottawa's respective system strengths, because he said he wasn't sure. Doesn't need to be a big bitchfest all the time man.

[Black Star]

IMG_0716 by BLACK STAR III, on Flickr

IMG_0718 by BLACK STAR III, on Flickr

IMG_0720 by BLACK STAR III, on Flickr