Homicide stats in Canadian Cities

[MrChills]

Originally Posted by armorand93

Same for Winnipeg too, and you mean the poverty in the Aboriginal community which then cause's crime cause they need to get money for their families fast, which means drugs instead of a job because 1) no one hires full Aboriginals for full-time jobs, 2) they assume the gangster culture because the federal government eradicated aboriginal culture, 3) higher education is unaffordable for lower-income Aboriginal families and 4) the federal government simply doesn't care about the First Nations people in this country? They kicked my ancestors out of Sandilands by force, for an example. If they weren't Metis, they would've got much worse...

Sounds like a lot of trite excuses to me.

If you are qualified for a job, you have the same chance (in some cases a better chance if you are a visible minority) to get a job as any one else. Again, as someone else mentioned getting a higher education is free for a majority of status Indians. The programs are there if people want to use them.

Until a lot of Aboriginals stop pointing the finger at the Federal Government and the "white man" and start looking deeper at themselves and try to correct the social problems from within, you are not going to move anywhere.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by MrChills

Sounds like a lot of trite excuses to me.

If you are qualified for a job, you have the same chance (in some cases a better chance if you are a visible minority) to get a job as any one else. Again, as someone else mentioned getting a higher education is free for a majority of status Indians. The programs are there if people want to use them.

Until a lot of Aboriginals stop pointing the finger at the Federal Government and the "white man" and start looking deeper at themselves and try to correct the social problems from within, you are not going to move anywhere.

Number 2 is absolutely true though, you can't deny that one.

[Centropolis]

It's weird how you guys call Native Americans Aboriginals...I think of Australia. As an aside, my girlfriend is Cherokee, and yeah, shes been punching me in the arm for years.

A lot of Americans have native blood, but for better or worse, it's like a footnote to them. I'm sure it's similar in some area of Canada, too.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

It's weird how you guys call Native Americans Aboriginals...I think of Australia. As an aside, my girlfriend is Cherokee, and yeah, shes been punching me in the arm for years. .

There is no broad consensus in Canada as to how to refer to these peoples. The politically correct term at the moment is "First Nations", but I don't really like it. You also hear a bunch of other different terms in Canada: aboriginals, "Indian" (sic), native, Amerindian (rare in English, but the French variant is very common), "first peoples", etc.

The Canadian federal government's department in charge of these matters was actually called Indian and Northern Affairs until earlier this year. They replaced the word Indian with Aboriginal I think...

Originally Posted by Centropolis

A lot of Americans have native blood, but for better or worse, it's like a footnote to them. I'm sure it's similar in some area of Canada, too.

It is true of many Canadians as well (including myself and my wife), though it varies according to demographic groups and regions. For example, it is roughly estimated that between 40% and 70% of the French Canadian population has some aboriginal blood. This might be the largest single demographic in Canada that has a mix of aboriginal and "other" blood.

[The_Architect]

Originally Posted by Acajack

There is no broad consensus in Canada as to how to refer to these peoples. The politically correct term at the moment is "First Nations", but I don't really like it. You also hear a bunch of other different terms in Canada: aboriginals, "Indian" (sic), native, Amerindian (rare in English, but the French variant is very common), "first peoples", etc.

The Canadian federal government's department in charge of these matters was actually called Indian and Northern Affairs until earlier this year. They replaced the word Indian with Aboriginal I think...

I currently work for Ontario's Aboriginal Affairs right now and we use a wide variety as well.. Actually most of the actual First Nations people I have worked with refer to themselves as Indians.

[aastra]

It's weird how you guys call Native Americans Aboriginals...I think of Australia.

Many years ago I was working in a provincial government branch that had the word "aboriginal" in its name, and one day an Australian tourist came in and asked me to take his picture standing in front of the sign. He said his friends back home wouldn't believe it was true if he didn't have a picture to prove it.

[feepa]

Hoping I won't get banned for my general stereotyping, and what some might see as racial views.... but its the natives and the somali in Edmonton that are racking up the murders. A few drug dealers here and there..
The natives for reasons discussed already on this thread, caused by the conditions they are forced to grow up in, etc... It doesn't help that many of these groups live in 3rd world conditions on their reserves, so they attempt to escape by running to the city, and have no skills to make money and have no chance to make it out of this horribly true stereotype

But the somalis should be deported... they come to this country, they disrespect the laws, the law-abiding ones refuse to speak to police, but yet at the same time lambast police for not doing anything?

[vid]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I thought that post-secondary education was free for aboriginals?

The basic fees for the course are covered, but books, housing, and everything else aren't, and it only applies to Status Indians.

Originally Posted by MrChills

If you are qualified for a job, you have the same chance (in some cases a better chance if you are a visible minority) to get a job as any one else.

No you don't. In 2008, United Way of Thunder Bay sent a white kid and a native kid with identical resumes to a variety of businesses, and the white kid was always more accepted than the native kid. Unemployment among aboriginals isn't twice as high because they're lazy, it is twice as high because it takes them twice as long to find a job, because they don't get hired, because of stereotypes against them. Many employers are less trusting of aboriginal people, regardless of how trustworthy that person actually is.

The situation has improved in the past decade, and most of that improvement has come since that report on my city's quality of life in 2008, but we still have a long way to go.

Originally Posted by MrChills

Again, as someone else mentioned getting a higher education is free for a majority of status Indians. The programs are there if people want to use them.

623,780 out of 1,172,790 aboriginal people (53%) have status. That is the maximum number of native people who are eligible for what you think of as "free education". (It is only partially free, because the government made itself legally obligated to provide it.)

There are a tonne of programmes out there to help people, but many are underfunded and understaffed. I made use of three such programmes in the past year and two no longer exist. There are a few new programmes that have been created since then but I have no idea what they're called and I actually pay attention to this kind of thing.

Originally Posted by MrChills

Until a lot of Aboriginals stop pointing the finger at the Federal Government and the "white man" and start looking deeper at themselves and try to correct the social problems from within, you are not going to move anywhere.

Federal laws prevent a lot of the solutions that have come up with to correct their social problems from within. When non-natives want to have public schools, they levy an education tax. Aboriginal governments do not have the right to do that, they are restricted to relying on the government to provide funding for the majority of their programming, especially when it is as expensive as a comprehensive education system.

There are social issues on the reserves that need to be dealt with, but non-aboriginal Canadians have to understand that the federal laws dealing with aboriginal Canadians are getting in the way of many solutions, and they're the ones with the influence.

Native people don't vote in large numbers, so governments can afford to neglect them. We have to stop letting that behaviour go unpunished. Non-natives have to be more vocal about improving laws concerning aboriginal people.

Originally Posted by The_Architect

Actually most of the actual First Nations people I have worked with refer to themselves as Indians.

Most Aboriginals that I meet use that term as well, and some actually get offended if you don't call them that. Others consider it as insulting as "nigger" to a black American, and want to be called one of the other terms. It can be difficult to work around that.

[mintzilla]

Originally Posted by vid

The basic fees for the course are covered, but books, housing, and everything else aren't, and it only applies to Status Indians.

umm that still sounds pretty sweet. i dont see what the problem there is.

[vid]

The communities they live in don't have adequate schools, so few of them actually qualify for university courses. It's putting the cart before the horse.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by feepa

Hoping I won't get banned for my general stereotyping, and what some might see as racial views.... but its the natives and the somali in Edmonton that are racking up the murders. A few drug dealers here and there..
The natives for reasons discussed already on this thread, caused by the conditions they are forced to grow up in, etc... It doesn't help that many of these groups live in 3rd world conditions on their reserves, so they attempt to escape by running to the city, and have no skills to make money and have no chance to make it out of this horribly true stereotype

But the somalis should be deported... they come to this country, they disrespect the laws, the law-abiding ones refuse to speak to police, but yet at the same time lambast police for not doing anything?

We had a HUGE anti-semetic debate on the Manitoba CMHR thread a week ago, and no one got banned, so you might be lucky.

Plus anyways, Somali's come here with gun training and tactics too, which is REALLY bad. How do you think they survive Mogadishu, by calling 911 over a few stray bullets and asking for the cops?

[Darkoshvilli]

34 now after two bodies were found in a car in front of the Montreal general hospital and ruled a murder/suicide.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by feepa

The natives for reasons discussed already on this thread, caused by the conditions they are forced to grow up in, etc... It doesn't help that many of these groups live in 3rd world conditions on their reserves, so they attempt to escape by running to the city, and have no skills to make money and have no chance to make it out of this horribly true stereotype

Explain this horribly true stereotype. You keep saying natives. If a white person or a Chinese person is exposed to the same environment, what is the difference. Your tone shows a lot of disdain towards Natives and it's offensive. The murder rate in Edmonton And Winnipeg is not caused by natives, get that through your thick skull.

Russia has a murder rate 8 x higher than Canada, Brazil's murder rate is 12 x higher and El Salvador's is 35 x higher. You cannot assign murders to any particular ethnic group. It's a social problem as you seem to somewhat understand, but choose to ignore in order to fulfill your own narrow minded personal agenda.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by vid

Most Aboriginals that I meet use that term as well, and some actually get offended if you don't call them that. Others consider it as insulting as "nigger" to a black American, and want to be called one of the other terms. It can be difficult to work around that.

This has been my experience too.

[Joshy]

Originally Posted by logan5

Your tone shows a lot of disdain towards Natives and it's offensive. The murder rate in Edmonton And Winnipeg is not caused by natives, get that through your thick skull.

I've seen stats presented showing the homidice rates in Winnipeg are caused mostly by natives. It's not racist; it's the truth. Of course it isn't ONLY natives, but due to their social and economic issues, this doesn't surprise me. These stats were on a paper copy, but IF I can find a electronic copy, I'll post them for you.

I'm betting it's pretty similar for Edmonton, too.

[Rusty van Reddick]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

A lot of Americans have native blood, but for better or worse, it's like a footnote to them. I'm sure it's similar in some area of Canada, too.

A lot of Americans CLAIM to have "native blood." Why they do this is a huge mystery to me- kids whose ancestors emigrated to the US generations after the forced removal of some tribes and the genocidal extermination of others near ANYplace those ancestors would have lived claimed- and this was pretty much every kid- to be "part Cherokee." This was a bullshit claim that exposed rank ignorance of the very existence of Native Americans in their part of the country and seems uniquely American- it's like Germans or Poles claiming to be "part Jewish."

This is I suppose part and parcel of the American fascination and fetishization of the Natives whom the European settlers and the US government killed off. I grew up in a state named Indiana in which there are, for all intents and purposes, no "Indians." I stayed in a motel outside Mammoth Cave NP in Kentucky that has cabins shaped like teepees- commemorating the complete slaughter or forced removal of the people who might have actually lived in them.

Being an American emigrant in western Canada, it's been a real learning experience getting past this romantic treatment of native Americans that people in the US midwest luxuriate in.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Joshy

I've seen stats presented showing the homidice rates in Winnipeg are caused mostly by natives. It's not racist; it's the truth. Of course it isn't ONLY natives, but due to their social and economic issues, this doesn't surprise me. These stats were on a paper copy, but IF I can find a electronic copy, I'll post them for you.

I'm betting it's pretty similar for Edmonton, too.

Please explain why there is a high murder rate in Russia. There are no natives there. South Korea has a murder rate 1.6 x that of Canada - no natives. India's is 1.8 x higher - no natives. Ukraine, 3.8 x higher. If theses countries have no natives how can their murder rates be higher.

I won't call you a racist, but maybe dig a little deeper as to the root cause of violent crime, because I can show you stats that show murder rates are high among whites, blacks, yellow, brown, green, whatever.

Murder rates have nothing to do with ethnic background.

[vid]

It is indirectly a result of their ethnicity. They are more likely to commit crime because they live in poverty, and they're more likely to live in poverty because they're aboriginal.

[-Harlington-]

Man dies after Halifax bar fight
Death has been ruled a homicide by police
CBC News




Posted: Dec 17, 2011 4:54 PM AT
Last Updated: Dec 17, 2011 6:05 PM AT




A man has died in the Queen Elizabeth Health Sciences Centre after a fight at a bar in Halifax early Saturday morning.

James Philip Mattatall, 23, of Dartmouth, was found on Argyle Street in front of a bar unconscious and unresponsive just before 3 a.m. by police.

Police say the fight started inside a bar and continued outside. The victim was knocked to the ground by another man.

Police released pictures of a man who is believed to have been in the area in hopes of identifying him.

Investigators are interested in speaking with the man as he may be able to provide information about the incident.

He is described as a white man in his twenties, tall with a thick build and short dark hair. At the time of the incident he was wearing dark-rimmed glasses, a chain around his neck, blue jeans, a light-coloured ball hat with a logo on the front, a light-coloured shirt and a light-coloured hooded sweatshirt with a letter or logo on the left side and words across the back.

Police are asking this man or anyone with information about the man’s identity or this incident, to contact police.

Saturday's death is Halifax's 17th homicide in 2011.

There was also a suspicious death a day or two ago .

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Rusty van Reddick

A lot of Americans CLAIM to have "native blood." Why they do this is a huge mystery to me- kids whose ancestors emigrated to the US generations after the forced removal of some tribes and the genocidal extermination of others near ANYplace those ancestors would have lived claimed- and this was pretty much every kid- to be "part Cherokee." This was a bullshit claim that exposed rank ignorance of the very existence of Native Americans in their part of the country and seems uniquely American- it's like Germans or Poles claiming to be "part Jewish."

This is I suppose part and parcel of the American fascination and fetishization of the Natives whom the European settlers and the US government killed off. I grew up in a state named Indiana in which there are, for all intents and purposes, no "Indians." I stayed in a motel outside Mammoth Cave NP in Kentucky that has cabins shaped like teepees- commemorating the complete slaughter or forced removal of the people who might have actually lived in them.

Being an American emigrant in western Canada, it's been a real learning experience getting past this romantic treatment of native Americans that people in the US midwest luxuriate in.

The American government committed genocide, not everyone processes that. Now, who do we put on trial? Yeah, I sort of understand the gist of your statement and I've seen that happen, more in the west and south than midwest, and it's extremely annoying (the claims of Cherokee blood) - I'm also familiar with a completely different kind of situation and I'm not going down that slippery road.

Let's focus on the here and now, late 2011. I don't agree with the liberties you take with what you generally think "Americans think" or what 307 million Americans are. I mean like a whole lot. Probably the only offensive/upsetting thing you could say about America, in my opinion, is that it is monolithic.

But, I digress. I came onto this board to learn about my good neighbor to the north. I'm also glad that you have been exposed to different experiences and points of view in Canada. I wish many more Americans would at least visit Canadian cities more often.