CHICAGO | General Developments

[lawfin]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Seriously? Do you have evidence of that?

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places but I can scarcely find anything less than maybe $7-800k in Lincoln Park. Such properties are still available in WP/Bucktown.

Lincoln Park is pretty much off the charts when it comes to property prices

Yes, pretty much. Nowhereman is wrong on this. LP is much more expensive than LP generally speaking; I am sure there are exceptions.

[ametz]

I grew up in Wicker/Bucktown and I'd say it turned the corner in the latter half of the 90's. By the time I moved back and bought a place in 2004, it had shed the 'up and coming' label. It's continued to trend upward, but I don't see it surpassing LP in my lifetime, if for no other reason than LP's geography- closer to the lake, as close to downtown, with long established, stable neighborhoods to the N, W, & S.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by lawfin

Yes, pretty much. Nowhereman is wrong on this. LP is much more expensive than LP generally speaking; I am sure there are exceptions.

Not only that, but I don't ever see a day where WP would catch up to LP price-wise. WP is expensive now, and it will probably get more expensive, but I can't imagine it would be able to catch up to LP. LP has proximity to the Park it's named after, access to the Lake, is walking distance to the Zoo and several museums, has a University, and has access to the first and third busiest "L" lines, and a weekday express "L" line to the near north suburbs. WP is nice, but the only measurable advantage over LP I can think of is that it has the O'Hare "L" running through it, which isn't much of an advantage to the monied set in Chicago anyway since they'd either drive, take a taxi or, if taking the Blue Line, depart from an office in the Loop.

WP is great, don't get me wrong - I'm not dissing it - but there are documentable reasons that LP will always be able to command a premium over WP.

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

That's not true at all. Wicker Park was a shit hole until about ten years ago when it started developing. Hell I remember when it was no good and I've only been living down here for 6 years or so. Wicker Park was like Humboldt Park up until then: a few bright patches, but mostly overrun with gangs.

This is correct.

And I agree with others that Lincoln Park will always be more expensive than WP, if not simply for it's lakefront/park access.

[spyguy]

Has anyone noticed the Chase sign on top of the Chicago Theatre marquee?

Untitled by hashem rifai, on Flickr

When did they add that and how did it get by with so little attention?

[george]

Originally Posted by PKDickman

I have lived in wicker park for nearly thirty years and most of that in a landmarked building.

The people who sued over the ordinance because they think it limits their ability to max out density (it doesn't, but you might have to be very creative to acheive that goal)

Most of stuff on Milwaukee is already built well over the FAR, so that wasn't the issue.

Wicker park has been a "hot" neighborhood for decades
Division and Damen came alive, and Milwaukee was still run down and woefully under utilized.

There is still a lot of upperfloor space that is kept vacant or as storage.

Then I would guess you were a pioneer in the neighborhood. When you say "hot" for decades, that's relative. It was hot to a different crowd twenty years ago than it is now. A whole new client has invested in the area other than the artists and sweat equity rehabbers who once made it "hot".

[harryc]

Looks like an easy enough addition, not sure what if anything was written there in the past


Oct 2010

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by lawfin

That is simply not true at all. WP was dicey in the early-mid 1980's. By the early-mid-1990's in had turned the corner and had moved main stream. By the late 1990's it was already being referred to as Lincoln Park west this has only accelerated through the 2000's. I kinda know because I was there.

Just as a first approximation to verify your claim I ran a redfin search on WP and Western LP.. I pulled out land and other and left condo townhouse and sfh selected.

Prices in western LP are 35-40% higher than WP. SFH are not even in the same sport let alone league SFH price in LP are about 2.2X those in WP.

Condos you are closer to the mark as prices are similar but that is driven by the fact that are a lots of 1bd and even effeciency type condos in LP driving prices down that presssure is not present in WP.

For instance searching 2bd+ condos shows shows that LP is about 20% more expensive than WP. 3bd prices diverge even more with LP being 40-45% more expensive than WP.

Bottom line LP is very much more expensive than WP.

rents I do not know as much about....but I would think that for similar sized units the underlying truth that LP is more expensive would still hold. LP has way more smaller 1bd / effeciency style units driving avg. rents down. That is not present in WP

Yeah, like I said, it didn't really start to get cooking until ten years ago and it was still kinda shoddy back in 2006 when I first moved here.

Yeah, of course you are going to come up with much higher prices for purchasing a SFH or Townhome in Lincoln Park, there are less of them in LP than Wicker Park. I'm not talking about Townhome prices, I'm talking about rents. I don't doubt that land values are higher in Lincoln Park, that's obvious based on the fact that there are highrises there and almost none in Wicker Park. Rent reflects the immediate demand for housing in an area much more accurately than the value of already completed units because it's entirely derived from how many units are available versus how many people are moving there. Home prices are not liquid, rental rates are.

I'm trying to find it right now, but I just saw some data on the priciest rental markets in Chicago and the rental rates for some types of apartments are already higher in Logan Square and Wicker Park than Lincoln Park.

[george]

From 8-2010. I seem to remember "PLITT" up there in the past.

Check it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zeusofh...od/3375165322/

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

That's not true at all. Wicker Park was a shit hole until about ten years ago when it started developing. Hell I remember when it was no good and I've only been living down here for 6 years or so. Wicker Park was like Humboldt Park up until then: a few bright patches, but mostly overrun with gangs.

Wrong... and 2000 census data show it definitely. Between Division and Armitage, between Western and Ashland were already fairly high income by then. In the last 10 years, the investment and gentrification has spread south of Division, north of Armitage, east of Ashland, and west of Western. But Wicker Park had definitely arrived by 2000, and it was already on it's way by 1990 albeit still fairly rough then. You have to go back to the mid 1980s for it to have been comparable socioeconomically to Humboldt Park.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by harryc

Looks like an easy enough addition, not sure what if anything was written there in the past

It originally said Balaban & Katz, the Chicago's first owners.

[woodrow]

Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280

Yeah, like I said, it didn't really start to get cooking until ten years ago and it was still kinda shoddy back in 2006 when I first moved here.

I wasn't going to chime in on this, but WOW, people perceive things differently!

I don't doubt the sincerity of your opinion, but to say that Wicker Park was "shoddy" and "just starting to cook" in 2006 is absolutely mind-boggling! And off.

Gritty. Yes. It still is, esp. on Milwaukee. That is part of the charm. But honestly,it has been an upwardly trending neighborhood for two decades. It stopped being trendy about 12 years ago. Still cool, but the poor artists that started moving there in the 1980's, early 90's were replaced by hipsters then Lincoln Parkers with hipster aspirations by the late 90's.

oh, and BTW, I really doubt WP prices surpasse LP for all the reasons stated by others, though I would also add that having two of the "top" private schools in neighborhood also helps.

[Nowhereman1280]

Originally Posted by woodrow

I wasn't going to chime in on this, but WOW, people perceive things differently!

I don't doubt the sincerity of your opinion, but to say that Wicker Park was "shoddy" and "just starting to cook" in 2006 is absolutely mind-boggling! And off.

Gritty. Yes. It still is, esp. on Milwaukee. That is part of the charm. But honestly,it has been an upwardly trending neighborhood for two decades. It stopped being trendy about 12 years ago. Still cool, but the poor artists that started moving there in the 1980's, early 90's were replaced by hipsters then Lincoln Parkers with hipster aspirations by the late 90's.

oh, and BTW, I really doubt WP prices surpasse LP for all the reasons stated by others, though I would also add that having two of the "top" private schools in neighborhood also helps.

First, I said "starting to cook" in regards to 10 years ago, not 2006.

I think the problem here is perspective, I'm not saying that the neighborhood hasn't been improving for longer, just that it didn't reach critical mass until the 2000's. Obviously gentrification takes decades. It's not like I'm claiming this went from Robert Taylor Homes to Gold Coast in 10 years people...

And "poor artists" moving in does not imply the neighborhood is suddenly nice. It actually indicates exactly what I am saying that Wicker Park didn't start attracting true yuppies (yipsters?) until the 2000's. And I'd like to see this census data that shows Wicker Park was a high income neighborhood in 2000. I don't doubt it was better than Humboldt Park in 2000, but it was certainly nowhere near "nice" then. If I had to bet I'd say that it's demographics were probably worse than Logan Square's were in 2010 census which I certainly wouldn't call "luxury"...

[a chicago bearcat]

Originally Posted by sentinel

Lycee Francais de Chicago - Krueck & Sexton
K-12 classes
(Also posted on curbed Chicago)

Bonjour Les Enfants
Krueck + Sexton's French Academy moves forward in Chicago.
by Alan G. Brake






All images are from K+S

Krueck + Sexton are known for refined cultural, civic, and residential projects, but they’ve never designed a school before. So when they competed for the chance to design a new building for the Lycée Francais de Chicago, the Windy City’s branch of the famous international school, they teamed with another small firm with educational experience under their belt—STL Architects. The pair of firms had the right combination of experience and open-mindedness for the $33 million commission...

http://archpaper.com/news/articles.asp?id=5696

A lot of material coming down to make way for this, but better it be low quality institutional buildings than neighborhood fabric. And better to have an active use than empty shells.

Any speculation, or better yet actually knowledge, of what might happen to the Landmark campus that LFC will be vacating in 2015? I think only the original building is designated, but the mid century modern addition along Irving has some nice aspects, minus the street adjacent parking.

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by a chicago bearcat

A lot of material coming down to make way for this, but better it be low quality institutional buildings than neighborhood fabric. And better to have an active use than empty shells.

Any speculation, or better yet actually knowledge, of what might happen to the Landmark campus that LFC will be vacating in 2015? I think only the original building is designated, but the mid century modern addition along Irving has some nice aspects, minus the street adjacent parking.

Can you provide images for what LFC is replacing at the new site, as frankly I'm not familiar with what is currently existing (well, nevermind; I can look on Google maps)

Also, given K+S body of work (all you have to do is look at the Spertus Center, which is quite remarkable, inside and out) I hardly think this project is 'low quality institutitional', unless you were being sarcastic(?)

[Vlajos]

The LFC will be a huge improvement from the dumpy old Ravenswood Hospital that is mostly vacant.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by Vlajos

The LFC will be a huge improvement from the dumpy old Ravenswood Hospital that is mostly vacant.

Agreed. I used to live across the street from the south side of that complex before I moved to River North. It was nice and quiet, but I really thought it was ugly.

[J_M_Tungsten]

10-21
Ohio and Orleans

[Remy_Bork]

They aren't tearing that one down are they? Nice looking old building.

[J_M_Tungsten]

Originally Posted by J_M_Tungsten

10-21
Ohio and Orleans

No. They replaced the windows and cleaned the facade I believe.