The Official Moncton, NB Project Thread

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

The new UBCO campus under construction in Kelowna will be entirely located in a single 40 storey tower in the downtown core of the city. Toronto Metropolitan University is located in a series of closely adjacent office buildings in the Young/Dundas area of downtown Toronto.

There are precedents out there for entirely urban downtown campuses.

There is enough room around 1222 Main for 2-3 closely adjacent academic buildings.

The more I think about it, the more I like the 1222 Main Street idea for UNBM. Looking at the map, there are a lot of possibilities for an urban campus there.

Besides the adjacent land (including the telegraph building) there are two huge surface parking lots in behind. Even if they just developed one of them, they could construct a building with a 3-4 level parking structure at the base to make a more efficient use of that land. We're seeing inside parking on apartment buildings more and more, so it could be an option.

It would be interesting to know if this urban campus idea is on UNB's radar; or maybe it could even be on Crombie's radar?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

It would be interesting to know if this urban campus idea is on UNB's radar; or maybe it could even be on Crombie's radar?

My fear is that UNB wants to do something as cheap as possible, and that their scope is far, far more limited that what we are fantasizing about here.

My gut is telling me they are simply looking at relocating the nursing program out of the muffler shop, into another downtown office space, and, the only reason why they are doing this is because they have been told the current location is up for redevelopment, and that they have no choice.

Moncton is probably so far off UNB's radar that it isn't funny.

I hope and pray that I am wrong. Moncton desperately needs an undergraduate UNB campus, but, I doubt we are going to get one.

[jonny golden]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

My fear is that UNB wants to do something as cheap as possible, and that their scope is far, far more limited that what we are fantasizing about here.

My gut is telling me they are simply looking at relocating the nursing program out of the muffler shop, into another downtown office space, and, the only reason why they are doing this is because they have been told the current location is up for redevelopment, and that they have no choice.

Moncton is probably so far off UNB's radar that it isn't funny.

I hope and pray that I am wrong. Moncton desperately needs an undergraduate UNB campus, but, I doubt we are going to get one.

That muffler shop ls sitting on prime land in an undeveloped asphalt jungle. With it and the sub station gone, we're looking at some serious development potential being unlocked. So it makes perfect sense that they've been given notice.

So if UNB isn't yet ready for an undergraduate campus in Moncton, what about 1222 Main Street only? Apparently the article stated that they are looking to expand their presence in Moncton.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by jonny golden

That muffler shop ls sitting on prime land in an undeveloped asphalt jungle. With it and the sub station gone, we're looking at some serious development potential being unlocked. So it makes perfect sense that they've been given notice.

So if UNB isn't yet ready for an undergraduate campus in Moncton, what about 1222 Main Street only? Apparently the article stated that they are looking to expand their presence in Moncton.

Yes, this move will be a positive one, no matter what.

I like the comment about "Moncton expansion", but what type of Moncton expansion????

I'm sure they plan on expanding health sciences training in the city, especially with regard to nursing, but, I think UNB could do far, far more than this.

Only time will tell if they have seen the writing on the wall about the massive population growth in southeastern NB, and, the missed opportunities here of not exploiting this growth for program expansion.

A private university would absolutely realize the advantages of expansion in Moncton. A publicly funded university marches to a different drummer. They are less interested in profit related customer service, and more tied to bottom line and government dictated minimalist service delivery.

Don't get me wrong - I appreciate public universities, and the quality programs they deliver, but, public institutions tend to be more set in their ways, and far more risk averse in their decision making.

It would take a bold administrator at UNB to do something really consequential for the greater Moncton area.

We need that third campus of UNB in Moncton, but, are there people with vision at the helm that can see this through?

[jonny golden]

Well like you said before, there are precedents for urban campuses, and I think it would be a great addition to downtown Moncton. Even if we could just get 1222 Main Street developed, that would be a start. Main floor commercial, and upper floors as student residential; and if UNB ever decided to expand their presence in Moncton, the option would be there with all the empty space around the building.

But this 1222 Main Street idea could all be just a pipe dream. I don't even know if Crombie would be aware that UNB is looking for a new home in Moncton.

[simsimw]

hello, I've been lurking the forums for a few months now, ever since the 30 storey building. any updates to that?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by simsimw

hello, I've been lurking the forums for a few months now, ever since the 30 storey building. any updates to that?

Welcome to the forums!

There is a thread devoted to discussion on the Infinity Tower. You can find any information and renders of the project on there.

In a nutshell, they did additional piledriving and soil testing during the winter revealing that they had to revise their engineering drawings so that they could in fact build a 30 storey building on that site.

The good news is that their intention is still to build 30 storeys. The bad news is that this has delayed the construction timeline somewhat. Don't expect to see much activity on this site until 2025.

[Audevourahn]

Have you folks heard about the suspended engineer from Match Engineering in Moncton? YIKES! Her name is Helene Theriault. I wonder how many buildings we are talking about altogether? The video says TWENTY in Dieppe alone! Also, the video says that the retrofitting was done in the parking garage, but what about the structures between the floors? Are there enough columns through the whole place?

https://youtu.be/Hvbed8ICZSE?si=-YBch4Gabo1VIhay

[simsimw]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Welcome to the forums!

There is a thread devoted to discussion on the Infinity Tower. You can find any information and renders of the project on there.

In a nutshell, they did additional piledriving and soil testing during the winter revealing that they had to revise their engineering drawings so that they could in fact build a 30 storey building on that site.

The good news is that their intention is still to build 30 storeys. The bad news is that this has delayed the construction timeline somewhat. Don't expect to see much activity on this site until 2025.

Awesome. I'll check that out

[Franco401]

UNB probably isn't going to build new. But if they did go all-out and add a whole new campus to complement Fredericton and SJ, they could build on the Ivan Rand lands to the west of the Junction development. Right next to downtown, enough land to do whatever you want, close to transit on Main and Vaughn Harvey, not mingling with the office towers and the land could be cheaper. This could get residential development going on Main, since that section is prime for a lane reduction and traffic calming once Assumption is extended to the causeway roundabout. It could be a proper neighbourhood artery instead of a dangerous high-speed road with highway commercial and no crosswalks.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Franco401

UNB probably isn't going to build new. But if they did go all-out and add a whole new campus to complement Fredericton and SJ, they could build on the Ivan Rand lands to the west of the Junction development. Right next to downtown, enough land to do whatever you want, close to transit on Main and Vaughn Harvey, not mingling with the office towers and the land could be cheaper. This could get residential development going on Main, since that section is prime for a lane reduction and traffic calming once Assumption is extended to the causeway roundabout. It could be a proper neighbourhood artery instead of a dangerous high-speed road with highway commercial and no crosswalks.

I actually doubt that UNB has anything significant planned, but, one can always hope!

My belief is that they plan to expand their health sciences offerings in Moncton, specifically with relation to nursing education. Perhaps they plan on reinstituting the four year BN program (or an accelerated three year program) here in Moncton. If so, they would need expanded teaching facilities, including some lab and training space. The muffler shop on Assumption probably no longer fits their needs.

If so, they are probably just looking for some rental space in a semi vacant office building downtown somewhere, preferably with a bus connection to the Moncton Hospital.

If however they plan on going further, either with a junior college format (first two years of undergraduate) or, a full undergraduate campus, then, I could see them renting out a full office building like 1222 Main. At least early on, it would make sense to rent space while they decide if a full campus in Moncton is appropriate. If they get to this point, then I agree with you they might look at the Ivan Rand site as a possibility. It is adjacent to downtown, and large enough to create a university with a true campus like atmosphere.

I however do not see this happening in the short term. The way this news was leaked (to AllNB) speaks more towards a very modest increase in the UNB presence in Moncton. I think even a junior college expansion to the Hub City would have politicians all over the announcement, especially in an election year. This announcement seems very much like an "oh, by the way" sort of thing.

Still, the Moncton CMA will likely top 200,000 sometime in 2025, and, is well on it's way to the quarter million mark by the early 2030s. The province and UNB cannot ignore the educational needs of anglo Monctonians forever..........

[DevelopmentAndy]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I actually doubt that UNB has anything significant planned, but, one can always hope!

My belief is that they plan to expand their health sciences offerings in Moncton, specifically with relation to nursing education. Perhaps they plan on reinstituting the four year BN program (or an accelerated three year program) here in Moncton. If so, they would need expanded teaching facilities, including some lab and training space. The muffler shop on Assumption probably no longer fits their needs.

If so, they are probably just looking for some rental space in a semi vacant office building downtown somewhere, preferably with a bus connection to the Moncton Hospital.

If however they plan on going further, either with a junior college format (first two years of undergraduate) or, a full undergraduate campus, then, I could see them renting out a full office building like 1222 Main. At least early on, it would make sense to rent space while they decide if a full campus in Moncton is appropriate. If they get to this point, then I agree with you they might look at the Ivan Rand site as a possibility. It is adjacent to downtown, and large enough to create a university with a true campus like atmosphere.

I however do not see this happening in the short term. The way this news was leaked (to AllNB) speaks more towards a very modest increase in the UNB presence in Moncton. I think even a junior college expansion to the Hub City would have politicians all over the announcement, especially in an election year. This announcement seems very much like an "oh, by the way" sort of thing.

Still, the Moncton CMA will likely top 200,000 sometime in 2025, and, is well on it's way to the quarter million mark by the early 2030s. The province and UNB cannot ignore the educational needs of anglo Monctonians forever..........

Is this a joke? How about no campus at all. Waste of tax dollars. These students can go to Fredericton, Saint John or Sackville unless you are proposing closing Mount A.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by DevelopmentAndy

Is this a joke? How about no campus at all. Waste of tax dollars. These students can go to Fredericton, Saint John or Sackville unless you are proposing closing Mount A.

Why is this a joke?

I see that up until now, you have only posted in the Freddy and SJ pages. I think your bias is showing.

Why shouldn't Moncton anglophone students have the same advantages as students in Fredericton and Saint John (and francophone students in Moncton for that matter)???

By not having a provincial anglophone university campus in town, this effectively doubles the cost of a university education for Moncton anglophone students. Room, board and transportation costs can really add up. This puts Moncton anglophone students at a severe competitive disadvantage to their peers. This could make the difference between some students choosing a full university education over community college or private career colleges.

Another issue is that if Moncton students have to leave the city to go to university, then there is a real chance they may never come back home after university. This could potentially cause a real brain drain from the community. Also, the presence of a university can be a major selling point for a community in the first place. Companies looking at relocating or expanding to Moncton probably issue a demerit point or two because of the lack of university options in the city (no offence to UdeM, which is a fine institution, but, the language of business in North America is English, and, an anglophone university campus is probably more important in corporate decision making than a francophone university is).

Why should anglophone Monctonians be discriminated against???? The anglophone population in the Moncton CMA is in the vicinity of 120,000. This is more than the entire population of Freddy, and not too far behind the entire population of SJ.

And, no, Crandall University does not count. It is a very small religiously based university with extremely limited course offerings. Graduates of Crandall might have difficulty getting their credits recognized at other academic institutions for transfers or post graduate education (no affiliation with MPHEC or Universities Canada for example).

And, no, Mount Allison University doesn't really count either. It is not actually located in metro Moncton, and, is as far away from Moncton as Norton is from SJ, or Windsor is from Halifax. Can you imagine the howls of outrage if a provincial government decided to place the UNBSJ campus in Norton?

MTA is isolated from the metropolitan population, and, there is no public transport between Moncton and Sackville. Travel can be quite difficult in the wintertime because of poor road conditions. MTA also has a different focus than a standard provincial university. It is a small national stature ivy-league-like university drawing top quality students from across Canada and internationally. This does not offer a level playing field for average NB high school graduates, either to gain admission to the university, or, to succeed academically once they get there.

Moncton deserves something like UNBSJ, but, apparently you don't think so. In fact, you would prefer that there were no UNB presence in Moncton at all.

As such, you would apparently prefer that the current UNB presence in the Hub City be completely eliminated.

- The elimination of the current UNB Moncton nursing program.
- The elimination of the School of Radiologic Technology at the Moncton Hospital (UNBSJ affiliated)
- The elimination of the dietietic internship program at the Moncton Hospital.
- The elimination of 3rd & 4th year medical school training at the Moncton Hospital (UNBSJ, Dal)
- The elimination of the residency programs in Family medicine and internal medicine at the Moncton Hospital (UNBSJ, Dal)
- The abolishment of residency rotations in other medical specialties at the Moncton Hospital (UNBSJ, Dal)

Instead, I'm sure you would prefer to relocate all of these programs to UNBSJ and the SJRH instead. Great for SJ. Not so great for eastern NB. These programs are a tremendous resource when it comes to health human resources recruitment. Many graduates prefer to practice where they were trained. This would cripple the Moncton Hospital.

UNB is a provincial university. The mandate should be provincial.

There is more to the province than just SJ and Freddy.

[new kid in town]

Originally Posted by DevelopmentAndy

Is this a joke? How about no campus at all. Waste of tax dollars. These students can go to Fredericton, Saint John or Sackville unless you are proposing closing Mount A.

Your take is the joke. Surely you can't think the biggest city AND fastest growing city in NB be denied a campus for the provincial university? MonctonRad already covered all the reasons why, but your position is such an illogical one, it bears emphasis.

[SevenSquared]

Originally Posted by DevelopmentAndy

Is this a joke? How about no campus at all. Waste of tax dollars. These students can go to Fredericton

What an incredibly Fredericton thing to say.

There are now 12,000+ anglophone Moncton-area high school grads per decade, who are forced to relocate - primarily to Fredericton - conveniently propping up Fredericton's local economy, if they want to attend university.

The insistence of so many in NB's capital city to shamelessly preserve the status quo at the direct expense of NB's largest and by far fastest-growing city is a really bad look, especially as Moncton's population growth continues at a rate that dwarfs the rest of the province.

[MonctonGoldenTri]

As a french monctonian I observed that 1/3 to 1/2 of my graduating class went to English college/University. I think you could confidently claim that 150,000+ monctonians are being underserved, and when you factor an FUA of 250,000+ that number easily climbs over 180,000 IMO.

[sailor734]

We have a community college system with multiple campuses across the province. Most US state universities are "systems" with multiple campus locations. Many reasons in favour of UNB being New Brunswick's university system.

MonctonRad makes some excellent points

[MonctonRad]

I have made this point before, but, I will make it again.

If you look at the list of Canadian CMAs, there is arguably only one CMA in the country where the (anglophone) population is as poorly served by post secondary educational options as Moncton, and that city is Barrie ON.

And even Barrie has plans for a Laurentian University affiliated campus.

I found this quote online:

“For a city of Barrie’s size and potential, it really is a necessity to have a stand-alone university campus to fulfill the aspirations of our students,” said Laurentian University Board of Governors member Rose Adams of Adams Law in Barrie, “We are the largest metropolitan area in Canada without a university campus. So, yes, it’s time for Laurentian’s Barrie campus,” said Adams.

Sounds a lot like the Moncton situation, doesn't it.........

[Bishop2047]

Would like to see people being able to complete at min some undergrad BAs and BSc in Moncton.

Fredericton should remain the primary campus for post-grad study and research, but perhaps Moncton could improve upon the current health focused post-grad programs and specialize into degrees not offered at the other campuses.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Bishop2047

Would like to see people being able to complete at min some undergrad BAs and BSc in Moncton.

Fredericton should remain the primary campus for post-grad study and research, but perhaps Moncton could improve upon the current health focused post-grad programs and specialize into degrees not offered at the other campuses.

This is essentially what I am asking for.

An undergraduate campus of UNB for the existing nursing program, as well as basic arts and sciences disciplines (and perhaps business education), as well as support mechanisms for expanded health sciences training at the Moncton Hospital.

And, to allay fears in SJ, I am in no way advocating for the relocation of the Dalhousie Medicine NB campus to Moncton. This was founded at UNBSJ, and this is where it should remain.

But there are options to enhance 3rd & 4th year medical school (clinical clerkship) training in Moncton, as well as enhancing the range of post graduate (residency) training at the Moncton Hospital.

There are opportunities to be had. Nobody should feel threatened.