Speech pattern and typographical variations across Canada - Page 68

Trantor · #**1341** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 1:24 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

We have a horrible one like that. Brazil.

It's a common enough surname in St. John's, also the name of a street and a square.

It's pronounced such that it rhymes with frazzle.

No one would pronounce the country name that way, but for some reason that's how the surname is said.

the etimology of the word is different.

the surname is of irish celtic origin.

https://www.houseofnames.com/Brazil-history?A=54323-292

can´t copy and paste from the page above, so you must click the link to see other spellings of the same surname, origins, etc.

the country name however comes from Pau-Brazil (Brazilwood), the first product the portuguese explorers found that was good to export to Europe.

the wood was good quality for ship building and red as ember, and because of that, the name "brazil wood", where Brazil comes from portuguese/latin BRASA (ember). (official name of the land given by the portuguese was Terra da Santa Cruz (Land of the Holy Cross), but the informal name given by traders, land of Brazil (land of Brazil wood) then ended up becoming more popular.

so, there is a good reason for pronouncing both words differently (celtic origin for surname, latin origin for country name). ALTHOUGH there are some not confirmed stories about the country being named after Hy-Brasil,

Quote:

The etymology of the names Brasil and Hy-Brasil are unknown, but in Irish tradition it is thought to come from the Irish Uí Breasail (meaning "descendants (i.e., clan) of Breasal"), one of the ancient clans of northeastern Ireland. cf. Old Irish: Í: island; bres: beauty, worth, great, mighty.[2]

Despite the similarity, the name of the country Brazil has no connection to the mythical islands. It was at first named Ilha de Vera Cruz (Island of the True Cross) and later Terra de Santa Cruz (Land of the Holy Cross) by the Portuguese navigators who discovered the land. After some decades, it started to be called "Brazil" (Brasil, in Portuguese) due to the exploitation of native Brazilwood, at that time the only export of the land. In Portuguese, brazilwood is called pau-brasil, with the word brasil commonly given the etymology "red like an ember", formed from Latin brasa ("ember") and the suffix -il (from -iculum or -ilium)

which makes me guess if the surname origin is not related to Hy-Brasil. (not cited in the website I linked before)

More interesting yet is the fact the irish spelling of the mythical land matches the portuguese spelling of the country (with S instead of Z)

SignalHillHiker · #**1342** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 1:39 AM**

Awesome stuff, Trantor - thank you!

The link you shared notes:

Quote:

John Brazil settled in Harbour Grace in 1776
Anne Brazil settled in St. John's in 1794
Cornelius Brazil settled in Tilting in 1825
James Brazil settled in Tors Cove in 1871

It attributes two of those to Canada and two to the United States - but I believe all four were here.

I wonder which one the MHA is descended from?

MolsonExport · #**1343** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 1:53 PM**

Wholly country searchmanship, Trantor

kwoldtimer · #**1344** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 1:58 PM**

The few Brazil's you encounter around here are more likely to be of Portuguese descent than from Newfoundland. The family name that I totally identify with Newfoundland is "Noseworthy". Never met one who didn't have a Newfoundland connection.

Acajack · #**1345** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 2:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

The few Brazil's you encounter around here are more likely to be of Portuguese descent than from Newfoundland. The family name that I totally identify with Newfoundland is "Noseworthy". Never met one who didn't have a Newfoundland connection.

Noseworthy is a good one. Typically Newfoundland names also have some corrupted names from French like LeDrew and LeFrence (I think that is how it's spelled.)

There are also names that are typical anglosphere names but that seem to be concentrated in Newfoundland. For example, for the following names I've met or known of at least two unrelated people from Newfoundland or with ties to there, but none from anywhere else: Tobin, Pelley, Burry, Butt, Yetman, Head...

And of course there is Costello.

SignalHillHiker · #**1346** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 2:16 PM**

I don't know which are just ours but I remember my shock at meeting people in Manitoba. Zienkiewicz. Kowalke. Kowalchuk. Sawatzky. On and on. I had absolutely no idea how to put those sounds to letters. It was like learning a new language.

Good to get back with O'Hara, O'Neil, O'Reilly, Mercer, Johnson, etc.

kwoldtimer · #**1347** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 2:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I don't know which are just ours but I remember my shock at meeting people in Manitoba. Zienkiewicz. Kowalke. Kowalchuk. Sawatzky. On and on. I had absolutely no idea how to put those sounds to letters. It was like learning a new language.

Good to get back with O'Hara, O'Neil, O'Reilly, Mercer, Johnson, etc.

You would enjoy our Breithaupts, Wiebes, Bindernagels, and Rooses (that last one isn't even pronounced the same in Cambridge as it is in Kitchener!).

SignalHillHiker · #**1348** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 2:53 PM**

Hahaha. I can't even imagine.

Bright hopes? Weebes? Beander Nay Gills? Roozes?

Acajack · #**1349** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 2:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I don't know which are just ours but I remember my shock at meeting people in Manitoba. Zienkiewicz. Kowalke. Kowalchuk. Sawatzky. On and on. I had absolutely no idea how to put those sounds to letters. It was like learning a new language.

Sawatzky makes me think of this guy, who has had a pretty interesting personal history.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Sawatzky

He's a Cree aboriginal from Saskatchewan but for some reason he has a Ukrainian surname. (Did not know there was mixing between Ukrainians and aboriginals...)

I am pretty sure he drifted to Montreal and lived there for a while as a "street urchin" of sorts, and eventually met up with a bunch of struggling musicians who later formed a legendary Quebec band called Les Colocs (French slang for "roommates" - they all shared some pretty crappy digs together).

esquire · #**1350** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 3:13 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

He's a Cree aboriginal from Saskatchewan but for some reason he has a Ukrainian surname. (Did not know there was mixing between Ukrainians and aboriginals...)

Extremely rare in southern parts of the prairies but gets much more common the farther north you go, right up into the Territories.

Xelebes · #**1351** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 3:14 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

He's a Cree aboriginal from Saskatchewan but for some reason he has a Ukrainian surname. (Did not know there was mixing between Ukrainians and aboriginals...)

I know a few notable names that are a mix of Cree and Ukrainian and thus bear a Ukrainian surname or given.

Blader · #**1352** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 4:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sawatzky makes me think of this guy, who has had a pretty interesting personal history.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Sawatzky

He's a Cree aboriginal from Saskatchewan but for some reason he has a Ukrainian surname. (Did not know there was mixing between Ukrainians and aboriginals...)

Sawatzky is a Mennonite name of Slavic origin. It's rare to have Mennonite and aboriginals marry.
Wild speculation on my part would place his origin north of Rosthern SK (Mennonites) near Duck Lake (French, Métis , aboriginal, Louis Riel rebellion country).

http://gameo.org/index.php?title=Sawatzky_%28Sawatzki,_Sawadsky,_Sabatzke%29_family

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Mennonite

esquire · #**1353** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 4:19 PM**

I know a couple of aboriginals with Menno/Ukrainian surnames who were adopted, so there's that possibility too.

Acajack · #**1354** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 4:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blader

Sawatzky is a Mennonite name of Slavic origin. It's rare to have Mennonite and aboriginals marry.
Wild speculation on my part would place his origin north of Rosthern SK (Mennonites) near Duck Lake (French, Métis , aboriginal, Louis Riel rebellion country).

http://gameo.org/index.php?title=Sawatzky_%28Sawatzki,_Sawadsky,_Sabatzke%29_family

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Mennonite

Not sure what region he is from. All of the info I can find says he is born in Saskatchewan and that's it.

Here he is in green at a news conference in French (starting at 1:30):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw7mXzqV7VA

He's pretty firmly ensconced in the francophone artistic milieu. He even worked on advertising jingles for the Bloc Québécois.

MolsonExport · #**1355** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 5:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure what region he is from. All of the info I can find says he is born in Saskatchewan and that's it.

Here he is in green at a news conference in French (starting at 1:30):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw7mXzqV7VA

He's pretty firmly ensconced in the francophone artistic milieu. He even worked on advertising jingles for the Bloc Québécois.

Hopefully he wasn't responsible for the one from around 2000 (around the time of that photo of Gilles Duceppe wearing a shower cap), that had all these couplets around the Internet theme of "on clique"

On clique pour le Bloc Québécois!
On clique. C'est critique. Pour gérer nos affaires.
On clique. Mathématique Pour les paiements de transfert.
On clique...

Beyond wretched.

Edit: found the full version. Had to dig for it.

Quote:

REFRAIN
On clique
On clique
On clique pour le Québec
On clique pour le Bloc
Le Bloc Québécois!
On clique
On clique
On clique pour le Québec
On clique pour le Bloc Québécois!

COUPLETS
On clique
C'est critique
Pour gérer nos affaires
On clique
Mathématique
Pour les paiements de transfert
On clique
C'est logique
Pour la souveraineté
On clique
C'est magnifique
Pour notre liberté!

REFRAIN
On clique
On clique
On clique pour le Québec
On clique pour le Bloc
Le Bloc Québécois!

On clique
On clique
On clique pour le Québec
On clique pour le Bloc Québécois!

PONT
Pour être à la table du monde
Pour protéger nos intérêts
Et pour nos convictions profondes
On clique, on clique
et on est prêts!

REFRAIN (REPRISE)

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/qc.politique/RUqlHwQw0fA

certainly lacks the eloquence of "Gens du Pays" (Gilles Vigneault)

SignalHillHiker · #**1356** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 6:06 PM**

Guy on Open Line right now pronounces lawyers as "liars". Best homophobe ever.

esquire · #**1357** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 6:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Hopefully he wasn't responsible for the one from around 2000 (around the time of that photo of Gilles Duceppe wearing a shower cap), that had all these couplets around the Internet theme of "on clique"

On clique pour le Bloc Québécois!
On clique. C'est critique. Pour gérer nos affaires.
On clique. Mathématique Pour les paiements de transfert.
On clique...

Beyond wretched.

Edit: found the full version. Had to dig for it.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/qc.politique/RUqlHwQw0fA

Wow.

Any song whose lyrics include reference to transfer payments has to be pretty awesome

Quote:

certainly lacks the eloquence of "Gens du Pays" (Gilles Vigneault)

Was it Lysiane Gagnon who described it as the world's only two-line national anthem that doubles as a happy birthday song?

kwoldtimer · #**1358** Posted **Jan 13, 2015, 9:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Hahaha. I can't even imagine.

Bright hopes? Weebes? Beander Nay Gills? Roozes?

BRIGHT-up, WEE-bee, BIN-der-nah-gull (sometimes BIN-der-nay-gull). Roos rhymes with "moose" (Cambridge) and either "rose" or "boast" without the final "t" (Kitchener).

SignalHillHiker · #**1359** Posted **Jan 14, 2015, 2:17 AM**

I heard on the radio that this:

Whether the weather be cold
Or whether the weather be hot
We'll weather the weather, whatever the weather
The weather's the weather we got

Is a tongue twister for most English speakers but not here.

Died.

SignalHillHiker · #**1360** Posted **Jan 14, 2015, 2:17 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

BRIGHT-up, WEE-bee, BIN-der-nah-gull (sometimes BIN-der-nay-gull). Roos rhymes with "moose" (Cambridge) and either "rose" or "boast" without the final "t" (Kitchener).

That's crazy. And cool.