Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[Cyro]

The province is earmarking $64.8 million this year to fix Winnipeg roads, including $26.8 million for residential streets.

Priority road repair projects for the city include: Portage Avenue, Ness Avenue, Pembina Highway, Henderson Highway, Main Street and St. James Street.

Of the provincial contribution, $26.8 million will go to residential streets, $20.7 million to regional streets, $2.3 million to back lanes, $1.5 million to bridges, $2.5 million for asphalt overlays to various streets, $6 million for other projects like gravel roads, sidewalks and traffic signals.

Source

[Auror]

Well yesterday I drove out to go to work driving on Archibald and turning left on Marion. I was there at 3:15, just before rush hour. The queue to turn left was long, backed well past Archwood school. I gave up after counting 8 reds and like a lot of other cars, I jumped the queue and went to the next lane, went past Marion to turn onto Doucet, a residential Street to go on Marion. This shows why this intersection needs to be dealt with. It's not just a "train inconvenience" but a fix to traffic issues as well.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by Auror

Well yesterday I drove out to go to work driving on Archibald and turning left on Marion. I was there at 3:15, just before rush hour. The queue to turn left was long, backed well past Archwood school. I gave up after counting 8 reds and like a lot of other cars, I jumped the queue and went to the next lane, went past Marion to turn onto Doucet, a residential Street to go on Marion. This shows why this intersection needs to be dealt with. It's not just a "train inconvenience" but a fix to traffic issues as well.

This could be fixed with a ~2 Million dollar additional turning lane, not a ~200 Million dollar interchange/rail underpass.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

This could be fixed with a ~2 Million dollar additional turning lane, not a ~200 Million dollar interchange/rail underpass.

Exactly...build more huge infrastructure for cars and you'll just get more cars...it will then lead to backups elsewhere, (eg. turning onto Marion from the Norwood Bridge) and you'll have people crying for another $200 million 'solution' that will just beget more cars.

[rkspec]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

Exactly...build more huge infrastructure for cars and you'll just get more cars...it will then lead to backups elsewhere, (eg. turning onto Marion from the Norwood Bridge) and you'll have people crying for another $200 million 'solution' that will just beget more cars.

as times change so does the cities infrastructure?

IMO it doesnt always back things up. Moray bridge did wonders for me when i lived in charleswood, as well as the kenastan underpass.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by rkspec

as times change so does the cities infrastructure?

IMO it doesnt always back things up. Moray bridge did wonders for me when i lived in charleswood, as well as the kenastan underpass.

Have you ever heard of a City that built its way out of a traffic problem? I haven't (except perhaps Detroit, but should that be our model?).

We will never "fix" all the problems, throwing more good money after bad will just make us more and more insolvent.

Perhaps it's time to embrace congestion and look for solutions that actually work -- a shift in modal share. We will always have latent demand for roads, you can never have enough, but if we continue to cater to it the only thing that will happen is that all other modes will become less and less viable, to the point that everyone has to drive.

EDIT: I should add, I am talking about urban infrastructure, not highway infrastructure. Highways are engines of trade and commerce and require high speeds and limited access. The problem is that we don't have either -- we have urban streets trying to be highways (like this Marion/Archibald project) and we have highways trying to be commuter corridors (like Lagimodiere). Neither work.

[BKB]

They are ripping up the wide sidewalks along Portage Avenue, west of downtown, leaving a narrow strip of sidewalk. Adding another lane?

[rrskylar]

Originally Posted by steveosnyder

Have you ever heard of a City that built its way out of a traffic problem? I haven't (except perhaps Detroit, but should that be our model?).

We will never "fix" all the problems, throwing more good money after bad will just make us more and more insolvent.

Perhaps it's time to embrace congestion and look for solutions that actually work -- a shift in modal share. We will always have latent demand for roads, you can never have enough, but if we continue to cater to it the only thing that will happen is that all other modes will become less and less viable, to the point that everyone has to drive.

EDIT: I should add, I am talking about urban infrastructure, not highway infrastructure. Highways are engines of trade and commerce and require high espeeds and limited access. The problem is that we don't have either -- we have urban streets trying to be highways (like this Marion/Archibald project) and we have highways trying to be commuter corridors (like Lagimodiere). Neither work.

The fact that neither work as you put it has more to do with the their poor design than anything else, higher speed urban streets work and properly designed commuter corridors work fabulously when implemented correctly. This notion that mass transportation solves everything is bunk especially in a place with a climate such as ours.

Really haven't seen or know which city or cities you guys seem to be referring to with a perfect transportation system based solely on mass public transit or is Disney World?

[esquire]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

The fact that neither work as you put it has more to do with the their poor design than anything else, higher speed urban streets work and properly designed commuter corridors work fabulously when implemented correctly. This notion that mass transportation solves everything is bunk especially in a place with a climate such as ours.

Really haven't seen or know which city or cities you guys seem to be referring to with a perfect transportation system based solely on mass public transit or is Disney World?

There's the climate thing again...

Originally Posted by trueviking

winnipeg's biggest cop out...its too cold here to be a real city....its always -40 in winnipeg.

250 days per year the temperature is above freezing. How about we build a city for those days and let the other 100 take care of themselves.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by rrskylar

Really haven't seen or know which city or cities you guys seem to be referring to with a perfect transportation system based solely on mass public transit or is Disney World?

I think the problem is the definition of "perfect transportation system". Vancouver and New York, for example, move massive amounts of people very successfully. I'd assume you don't agree.

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by rkspec

as times change so does the cities infrastructure?

IMO it doesnt always back things up. Moray bridge did wonders for me when i lived in charleswood, as well as the kenastan underpass.

The Kenaston underpass led to increased development to the south of the CN line, leading to more traffic and now the area between Taylor and the St. James Bridge is a parking lot at peak hours.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

The Kenaston underpass led to increased development to the south of the CN line, leading to more traffic and now the area between Taylor and the St. James Bridge is a parking lot at peak hours.

That development (Lniden Woods and Whyte Ridge) came long before Kenaston was even built out as much as now and long before the plan for the underpass. Even before the underpass Kenaston had significant congestion issues.

[steveosnyder]

Originally Posted by CoryB

That development (Lniden Woods and Whyte Ridge) came long before Kenaston was even built out as much as now and long before the plan for the underpass. Even before the underpass Kenaston had significant congestion issues.

Some of the oldest houses in Linden Woods date from the mid/late 80's. Whyte Ridge started a little later. Kenaston Underpass was completed in 2006. The underpass was a result of car dependent growth, but enabled even more car dependent growth.

[rkspec]

I remember when Kenaston ended at Wilks, cant imagine what traffic issues there will be if that 'solution' wasn't even built.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by TimeFadesAway

The Kenaston underpass led to increased development to the south of the CN line, leading to more traffic and now the area between Taylor and the St. James Bridge is a parking lot at peak hours.

As rrskylar says, the traffic issues have everything to do with poor design...just like every single other road in this province. And sadly, the planned "solution" to the Kenaston traffic issues (adding a 3rd lane while keeping every existing traffic light in place) will do very little to improve traffic flow. At a cost of what...$200 or $300 million?

A properly engineered expressway with limited access, no lights, and full deceleration and acceleration lanes would work just fine. And probably cost around the same amount. I was on a 2-lane freeway in Minneapolis last year, a city 4-5 times the size of Winnipeg...and it flowed great. For whatever reason, it seems we are the only first world city that can't figure out how to design or fund a proper expressway.

[windypeg]

The whole climate argument is so bogus. In January you go out, shovel the driveway, unplug the car, spend 10 mins scraping the windshield and clearing the snow off the car, pray to god that it starts, get a boost if it doesn't, freeze your ass off for 10 more mins while you wait for it to warm up, then white-knuckle your way through the ice-covered streets and hope you don't get hit by anyone. As if that's easier than waiting 10-15 mins at a bus stop and then letting someone else do the work.

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by Reignman

As rrskylar says, the traffic issues have everything to do with poor design...just like every single other road in this province. And sadly, the planned "solution" to the Kenaston traffic issues (adding a 3rd lane while keeping every existing traffic light in place) will do very little to improve traffic flow. At a cost of what...$200 or $300 million?

A properly engineered expressway with limited access, no lights, and full deceleration and acceleration lanes would work just fine. And probably cost around the same amount. I was on a 2-lane freeway in Minneapolis last year, a city 4-5 times the size of Winnipeg...and it flowed great. For whatever reason, it seems we are the only first world city that can't figure out how to design or fund a proper expressway.

I was on a 4 lane expressway in Minneapolis last year and it was a complete gridlock gongshow and it took an hour to drive a few miles. Not sure either of our experiences give a proper perspective on the livability of Minneapolis traffic.

[Riverman]

Originally Posted by windypeg

The whole climate argument is so bogus. In January you go out, shovel the driveway, unplug the car, spend 10 mins scraping the windshield and clearing the snow off the car, pray to god that it starts, get a boost if it doesn't, freeze your ass off for 10 more mins while you wait for it to warm up, then white-knuckle your way through the ice-covered streets and hope you don't get hit by anyone. As if that's easier than waiting 10-15 mins at a bus stop and then letting someone else do the work.

Or get into your car in a warm clean garage and drive easily where you are going because you had the sense to buy proper winter tires.

[drew]

Originally Posted by cheswick

I was on a 4 lane expressway in Minneapolis last year and it was a complete gridlock gongshow and it took an hour to drive a few miles. Not sure either of our experiences give a proper perspective on the livability of Minneapolis traffic.

I like the grid system. If one street is blocked, just keep moving laterally till you find a road that works.

Freeways are meh. Great when they work, downright horrible when something goes wrong.

I am still convinced even if we *could* build freeways in Winnipeg, there is really no way we would be able to afford to maintain them properly.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by Riverman

Or get into your car in a warm clean garage and drive easily where you are going because you had the sense to buy proper winter tires.

Obviously your choice, but seems like a lot of money to sink into getting to work each day when there's a super cheap alternative (cheap to you and cheap to taxpayers).