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  #1341  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2010, 9:12 PM
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I would be concerned that a HRM-administered Stadium Fund would be misused for other purposes, as was the pollution control fund that they collected for decades and pissed away on things that had nothing to do with pollution control.
     
     
  #1342  
Old Posted Sep 25, 2010, 11:17 PM
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I would be concerned that a HRM-administered Stadium Fund would be misused for other purposes, as was the pollution control fund that they collected for decades and pissed away on things that had nothing to do with pollution control.
It could be set up with a number of directors including directors from the public. I am sure that it could be set up so that it would only be used for that purpose. It would be very bad publicity to use money collected from individuals and corporations for other purposes. Was the pollution control fund set aside by the municipality and then re-allocated?

I would think that there would be more chance of misuse if the money was collected by a private group.
     
     
  #1343  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2010, 2:07 AM
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I would be concerned that a HRM-administered Stadium Fund would be misused for other purposes, as was the pollution control fund that they collected for decades and pissed away on things that had nothing to do with pollution control.
or the money that they were willed for specifically for a downtown library that they went and spent on a library in Clayton!

I am actually with you on this one... I don't trust the city to do with this fund what it was necessarily intended for. Just too much financial pressure.
     
     
  #1344  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2010, 2:12 AM
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Well guys. Touchdown Atlantic is tomorrow. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get tickets, otherwise I would be there right now... Should be interesting though to see how this goes, and what the commentators have to say.
     
     
  #1345  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2010, 2:21 AM
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I plan to tune in. Let's Go Argo's.
     
     
  #1346  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2010, 12:39 PM
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The game starts at 1:00 PM Atlantic time, pre-game at 12:30 PM on TSN (12:00 PM, and pregame at 11:30 AM in Ontario). I saw a bit of the stadium last night on a TV news clip - it looks good.
     
     
  #1347  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2010, 4:06 PM
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Couple of interesting facts from the pre-game show:

-Moncton would need $75 Million to expand the stadium to CFL standards!! Halifax could build a stadium for that or maybe even less.

-85% of season ticket holders for the roughriders come from Regina. This figure makes Halifax's larger population look a lot more attractive.

-Mark Cohen says Moncton has a leg up, but cautions a lot would have to happen to have a franchise including ownership and stadium expansion.

Essentially it appears Mark Cohen is trying to dangle a carrot out east, hoping that Halifax grabs it. I hope that by trying to make the Mayor of Halifax jealous that it gets the stadium idea started in Halifax.
     
     
  #1348  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2010, 4:47 PM
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The time is now Halifax!!
The CFL wants to do this sort of thing at least for the next 3 years. If we get the stadium and the corporate/Private owner down and the stadium up in time we WILL have the team. Talks are good for both cities and unfortunately Moncton has the upper hand right now because they are hosting the games.
I think Saint Marys and HRM need to come together to get something going.
     
     
  #1349  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2010, 5:23 PM
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The time is now Halifax!!
The CFL wants to do this sort of thing at least for the next 3 years. If we get the stadium and the corporate/Private owner down and the stadium up in time we WILL have the team. Talks are good for both cities and unfortunately Moncton has the upper hand right now because they are hosting the games.
I think Saint Marys and HRM need to come together to get something going.
Regardless of the recent happenings, I can't see the economics of a team in Moncton...
     
     
  #1350  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2010, 5:33 PM
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It's crazy to that it's even a thought that it's not Halifax's Team. University wise we have 3 very popular teams all within an hours drive. Huskies, Axe Men and X-men.
     
     
  #1351  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2010, 5:34 PM
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Regardless of the recent happenings, I can't see the economics of a team in Moncton...
Agreed. I think Moncton has done a great job with Touchdown Atlantic however Moncton's pipe dream could easily become Halifax's reality with the construction of a stadium.

Now is the time to capitalize on the interest the CFL is giving to this region. I fear If Halifax doesn't try to capitalize on this, we risk the CFL losing interest in this region again with a new commissioner or focus on expansion elsewhere in Canada.
     
     
  #1352  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2010, 5:47 PM
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Agreed. I think Moncton has done a great job with Touchdown Atlantic however Moncton's pipe dream could easily become Halifax's reality with the construction of a stadium.

Now is the time to capitalize on the interest the CFL is giving to this region. I fear If Halifax doesn't try to capitalize on this, we risk the CFL losing interest in this region again with a new commissioner or focus on expansion elsewhere in Canada.
True, but there aren't too many places it could go. Quebec City, London, and Halifax are probably the best contenders.

The problem with the Moncton model is it assumes that people will be willing to drive there from all over the maritimes, where Halifax has a signficant population to support a team on its own.

Sure, people may be driving to Moncton for 1 game for Touchdown Atlantic... but I doubt it would be a regular thing.

I would personally boycott a team there, it just doesn't make any sense.
     
     
  #1353  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2010, 10:17 PM
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Indeed, one thing they kept mentioning during the game is that moncton has 1.9 million people within a 2.5 hour drive. Well so what. The important number is how many are within a 1 hour drive, and Halifax is the clear winner in that regard. You're not going to get too many people who are going to religiously drive more than an hour to see a football game. This isn't the Roughriders, and the maritimes aren't a hotbed for football.

Anyway, good game today. Disappointing Argo offense though, it seemed like they just kept throwing interception after interception after interception.
As far as the stadium, it looked good. Small but good. My biggest problem with it is the huge running track. I've never liked running tracks around football fields, it sets the stands back too far - but this track, maybe because it was built to the world track and field standards, was massive. The stands seemed (to me on tv) to be so far away from the sidelines. Much farther than at say McGill. It's not an ideal venue for football, but it worked.
     
     
  #1354  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2010, 11:40 PM
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Here is an interesting article that I also posted in the CFL maritimes thread:


DAVID NAYLOR
CFL moves closer to Down East dream
MONCTON— From Saturday's Globe and Mail
Published Friday, Sep. 24, 2010 1:23PM EDT


DAVID NAYLOR
CFL this week

Last spring, fans in the Moncton area bought the 20,000 tickets for Sunday’s Edmonton Eskimos-Toronto Argonauts game within two days. In what is officially a home game for the Argos, the franchise is likely to reap its highest gate revenues of the season in a city with a metro population about 1/45th the size of the Greater Toronto Area.

“We thought it was going to go well,” CFL commissioner Mark Cohon said. “We didn’t know it was going to go that well.”

With unbridled enthusiasm characterizing the lead-up week, the age-old question is being asked anew: Can the Maritimes – and Moncton in particular – be home to a CFL team?

“I have no doubt in my mind that … potential investors and potential business investors will be taking note of this game and watching it very carefully,” Moncton Mayor George LeBlanc said. “They’ll be thinking about the possibility that a team could work here.

“Just recently, I had a significant business person in the community talk to me about the possibility of a group of investors and how they might be able to put something together, if indeed a team would come to Moncton. So, yes, there is interest.”

Moncton positions itself as the entertainment hub of Atlantic Canada.

While the metro population numbers only about 125,000, another 1.2 million live within 2 1/2 hours driving distance. The city’s been a recent tour stop for the Eagles, The Rolling Stones and AC/DC – drawing 55,00, 70,000 and 85,000 fans to those concerts, respectively – while also hosting the 2009 men’s world curling championships, and the 2010 world junior track and field championships.

So, why not a CFL team?

“It was a dream when it was first announced that the game was coming and now it isn’t a probability – but it is a possibility,” said former CFL receiver Jan Carinci, who lives in Moncton. “And I think when you start talking like that, Maritimers get excited.”

If Moncton is keen about the CFL, the feeling is mutual. With Ottawa expected to rejoin the CFL for the 2013 season, there is considerable enthusiasm to see a 10th team added that would balance the schedule, create an extra game per week for television and brand the league as coast-to-coast.

“I just finished a five-year plan with the board of governors six months ago, and [expansion into Atlantic Canada] was part of our 10 priorities for the league,” Cohon said. “I would say it’s not No. 1, but it’s definitely on that list.”

Moncton’s enthusiasm for football is evident beyond Sunday’s CFL game. High-school games at Rocky Stone Field look like a scene from Friday Night Lights. And if there’s any sport where a small market can join the big leagues it is football, where passion trumps size.

But there are obstacles, starting with the issue of a stadium. The 10,000-seat track and field facility at the University of Moncton has been expanded temporarily for this weekend, but isn’t suitable for full-time use. And it’s debatable whether adding onto the stadium makes more sense that starting from scratch.

“$3,000 to $3,500 per seat would be your lower end,” said Chris O’Reilly, principal with Stadium Consultants International. “That’s for metal bleachers and no roof. So you’re looking at $75-, $100-million as a base price for a stadium.”

A modular-designed stadium may cost less but would still be in excess of $50-million.


Then, there is the question of sustained support. Moncton has proved people will attend one-off events, but getting a season-long commitment in such places as Halifax and Fredericton to 10 football dates a season, year after year, is a different challenge.

That was the concern of former CFL commissioner Doug Mitchell, now a part-owner of the Calgary Stampeders, when the idea of Atlantic Canada expansion came up during the mid-1980s.

“I had gone down there talking to people and one thing I found was people told me that … if a team is in Moncton or Saint John, they aren’t really going to be into it in Halifax,” Mitchell said. “The enthusiasm from the fans was great, but the issue of corporate partners, not just sponsorship, but buying tickets, was questionable.”

The issue of corporate support remains an issue in a place with fewer head offices than places such as Saskatoon and Regina.

“I think the business challenges would be getting some early, very big corporate sponsors,” said Carol Chapman, president of Moncton-based C2 Communications Inc., and a member of the business community for the past 25 years.

“I think to this point we haven’t had the need to go after large-scale corporate support from a sporting standpoint. I think there is no question we would need to draw from a two-, three-hour radius [around the city].”
     
     
  #1355  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2010, 12:05 AM
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Good article... finally somebody makes the statement that Haligonians wouldn't be into a team in Moncton... because we wouldn't!

What about sponsors like Eastlink, RIM, Tim Horton's, Sobeys, Irving, McCain Foods?
     
     
  #1356  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2010, 12:26 AM
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Here is an interesting article on the BC Lion's temporary facility - one thing that I didn't know previously is that it was a rented structure. Once the BC Lion's are finished with it then it will be dismantled and shipped back to the fabricator in Switzerland - http://dcnonl.com/article/id38724 . The $14.4 million dollar price tag was for assembling, renting and dismantling the stadium.

The reason for posting it is because this company could probably build a modular permanent stadium cheaper than a stadium designed from scratch. I don't know if it would be good for Halifax or not (hopefully Halifax will be able to build something more permanent though - maybe the company that built the InfoCision Stadium could design an economical stadium for Halifax).

Last edited by fenwick16; Sep 27, 2010 at 12:56 AM.
     
     
  #1357  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2010, 2:57 AM
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The thing about having a CFL team isn't about gate receipts or bus routes or any of that. It's about marketing Halifax on a national and International stage.

Someone on CFL forums said it great (paraphrasing): Halifax has great bars and beaches, but who would fly thousands of miles to drink a beer and absorb some rays? Having a known CFL/Professional sports team to add to the vacation goes a long way to committing to that vacation. The purpose of a team is to market the CITY on a national stage, and your all smart people I need not mention the economic benefits city-wide of having a large event there every week or two all summer and fall.

I'm also curious why people think building this anywhere inside the city is actually beneficial? The reason why Moncton built theirs so cheap (as mentioned before) was it was built on a greenfield site. There is cheaper land with more space anywhere along Kearney's Lake, or Bedford, or Hammons Plains or Clayton Park... where ever! The point is believe it or not 40 to 50% of the people coming to those games will be out of downtown Dartmouth or Halifax.

Thousands of people from South Shore, The Valley, Truro-Antigonish corridor, Cape Breton not to mention PEI and New Brunswick can only dream of being a part of that type of experience and will be there. This is a Maritime team we're talking about..!
     
     
  #1358  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2010, 3:46 AM
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Good article... finally somebody makes the statement that Haligonians wouldn't be into a team in Moncton... because we wouldn't!
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I would personally boycott a team there (Moncton), it just doesn't make any sense.
And this folks is the problem with Halifax and their "centre of the universe", mini-Toronto type of thinking. It is absolutely inconcievable to them to think that anything good or positive can possibly exist anywhere else in the Maritimes other than Halifax!!

I made the point in the Maritime CFL thread that most other Canadians only think of three things when they (rarely) think about the Maritimes - Halifax, Anne of Green Gables and Pogey collecting unemployed fisherman. I'm beginning to think that these are the only three things that Haligonians think of when they consider the Maritimes as well.

If this is your attitude then why do you think New Brunswickers, Prince Edward Islanders and even Cape Bretoners would consider supporting a Halifax CFL franchise either........

For that is what it would be, a CFL franchise for Halifax and Halifax alone. Other Maritimers might be allowed to attend the games but only on special invitation!!
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  #1359  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2010, 4:12 AM
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And this folks is the problem with Halifax and their "centre of the universe", mini-Toronto type of thinking. It is absolutely inconcievable to them to think that anything good or positive can possibly exist anywhere else in the Maritimes other than Halifax!!

I made the point in the Maritime CFL thread that most other Canadians only think of three things when they (rarely) think about the Maritimes - Halifax, Anne of Green Gables and Pogey collecting unemployed fisherman. I'm beginning to think that these are the only three things that Haligonians think of when they consider the Maritimes as well.

If this is your attitude then why do you think New Brunswickers, Prince Edward Islanders and even Cape Bretoners would consider supporting a Halifax CFL franchise either........

For that is what it would be, a CFL franchise for Halifax and Halifax alone. Other Maritimers might be allowed to attend the games but only on special invitation!!
Cheers to Moncton, Monctonrad. Moncton was able to come together and build a stadium and might get a CFL team someday. Hopefully Halifax will be able to do the same. However, if it looks like Halifax might get a stadium then various people will crawl out of the woodwork to oppose it. With stories of progress in the newspapers, some people even post the same opinions under various different usernames - how long will it be before that starts to happen on this thread?
     
     
  #1360  
Old Posted Sep 27, 2010, 12:14 PM
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Good job Moncton! You have demonstrated how achievement is realized by doing what can be done and not whining about what can't.


All right Moncton, this was your week to shine

By CHRIS COCHRANE Sports Columnist
Mon, Sep 27 - 7:15 AM

Fans display an Atlantic Schooners banner at the CFL game at Moncton Stadium on Sunday. The Halifax-based team was to join the CFL in the 1980s but never played a game because funding could not be secured for a stadium. (ANDREW VAUGHAN / CP)


How many shots to the face can CFL football fans in Halifax take before they finally say "enough is enough"?

I think we’re reaching that saturation point.

The city received conditional entry into the CFL way back in 1984 but funding fell through and the Atlantic Schooners project was eventually abandoned. Since then, for the past quarter century, there has been little good news for Halifax on the CFL front.

This past week, the CFL cause, and Halifax football in general, lost a little more stature.

It started with the official word that the next three Uteck Bowls, the Canadian Interuniversity Sport semifinal named after late former Saint Mary’s University coach Larry Uteck, will move from Halifax to Moncton.

Why? Huskies Stadium has seen better days. Moncton has a new one that can be expanded to seat 20,000 fans and Atlantic University Sport is trying to get a new football program started at the university there.

A second downer for Halifax football fans came Saturday.

Mount Allison University, an admittedly once-great AUS football franchise but in recent seasons a team that annually struggled to avoid the Atlantic Conference basement, upset the Saint Mary’s Huskies. In fact, it was the third consecutive loss for the now last-place Huskies, the team that is annually favoured to win the Atlantic Conference.

The Mounties’ win over the Huskies was a neutral-site game. Where did this gigantic upset take place? Hey, it could have been Sydney, perhaps Charlottetown. But no, it had to be in Moncton, this week’s centre of the universe for Maritime football.

And that brings us to Moncton’s coup de grace on the pro-football front, the biggest football victory in a week of significant Moncton football wins — Sunday’s sold-out Touchdown Atlantic, with more than 20,000 fans gathered in Moncton’s new stadium to watch the Edmonton Eskimos tackle the Toronto Argonauts in a regular season CFL game.

TSN’s pre-game show was filled with glowing comments about Moncton’s can-do attitude and the possibility of it someday getting a CFL team. The broadcast did a good job of creating a pathway in the national psyche that if a CFL team does ever come this way, Moncton is the leading and maybe ideal choice.

It was the type of publicity that the most ardent and wealthy supporters of a cause couldn’t have purchased.

Where does all this pro-Moncton CFL sentiment leave Halifax? Basically, Halifax is where it has been for a too long — watching from the sidelines. The city still has no stadium, has no plan that it has shared with the public to get a stadium and, even in Sunday’s TSN game broadcast, there seemed to be surprise at Halifax’s seeming indifference to the CFL.

That indifference has become one of the greatest assets in the Moncton charge.

But Halifax’s surrender need not be permanent. Remember, any eventual CFL move to the East Coast, something the league has wanted for a long time, remains a long-term project. So there is plenty of time to jockey for position.

First, there will be more CFL experiments in Moncton to ensure that the attraction isn’t simply a short-term infatuation.

Then there will have to be talk about expensive, increased permanent seating to make the stadium meet CFL minimum requirements. And, in what’s often the most difficult challenge, some millionaire investor or corporation has to put down the money to join the league and sustain a franchise.

Halifax isn’t out of the picture, although the attitude here needs a major realignment for the city to become a genuine player. But even the strongest proponents of the CFL-for-Halifax effort must concede that this was definitely Moncton’s week to shine.

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