Winnipeg Retail

[Authentic_City]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Yeah I'm not sure what the plans are. I couldn't find my paper copy of the herald. The posting highlighted the land behind Canadian Tire and another triangle of land at the SE corner of Reenders and Stapon. So it'll be interesting to see if it's just adding some "out buildings" if you will. Or expanding the mall itself. It does look like it would be possible to add a second floor going by the height of the dome window/skylights.

Mall development has clearly been trending away from expanded indoor common areas and more toward the development of stand-alone big box stores (Unicity is the most dramatic local example of this). Except for the biggest malls like Polo or St. Vital, I would be very surprised to see any mall expanding its indoor common areas. My money is on a couple of new stand alone buildings for KP.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

That does appear to be what they're doing. But the trouble is that The Bay downtown is now so poorly stocked that it's hardly worth the trouble to visit anymore since the odds are slim that they'll have what you're looking for. I used to shop there regularly, but I don't go as often now because it's so poorly stocked... it's a downward spiral.

The Bay downtown seems to be to willing itself closed, the stock we have doesn't sell so let's bring in less stock that we can sell even less of since that will work better. Keep repeating until the doors are fully closed saying that customers didn't support them.

Regarding the Kildonan Place expansion, I suspect it might be for new, inclosed space. They are well undersized for the type of mall they are now and only have two real competitors in Winnipeg. I had heard of a plan floated many years back of adding a new wing that would start roughly at where the Dollarama/movie theater are and wrap around the Renders side towards Canadian Tire with a tie back in around the Target mall enterance. This would end up being fairly similar the the new wing that St Vital added some years back now. In terms of the second floor, I really doubt that is anything but a pipe dream as the structure would need significant strenghtening to accomodate that and neither anchor was build in a two-floor layout.

As for the movie theater there, with Cineplex being the only game in town it is doubtful much will happen. When it does look for them to attempt a new build somewhere in the area. I know techincally St Vital was a "renovation" but it effectively ammounted to an in-place new build. I think Kildonan Place will likely be a new location, perhaps in the development across Renders. That could definitely work for the houses behind there as there would be no need for off hours deliveries.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

As for the movie theater there, with Cineplex being the only game in town it is doubtful much will happen. When it does look for them to attempt a new build somewhere in the area. I know techincally St Vital was a "renovation" but it effectively ammounted to an in-place new build. I think Kildonan Place will likely be a new location, perhaps in the development across Renders. That could definitely work for the houses behind there as there would be no need for off hours deliveries.

That sounds pretty plausible. Doing that would open up a fair bit of retail space in the mall at relatively little cost (as compared to a brand-new wing), while allowing for a larger, more current cinema just across the way.

Incidentally, for a city of our size, Winnipeg does seem a bit under-theatred. We have two class-A cinemas (the Silver Cities), three class-B cinemas (Grant Park, KP, McGillivray) and a handful of mostly older, smaller theatres.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by esquire

Incidentally, for a city of our size, Winnipeg does seem a bit under-theatred. We have two class-A cinemas (the Silver Cities), three class-B cinemas (Grant Park, KP, McGillivray) and a handful of mostly older, smaller theatres.

I am not sure how theaters are classified however would the significant renovations to McGillivray not bumped them up to a class-A?

KP and Portage Place are relatively close in age to each other, with KP having twice the number of screens. In terms of new theaters I suspect a replacement/rebuild of KP is under consideration. I have also heard talk that WestPort Festival may get a new theater which would service the west side of Winnipeg. The big gap then would be something in the northwest/Garden City area. I think the bigger issue than the number of theaters though is the near lack of any significant competition.

I should also add that my speculation on KP development heavily hinges on what the plan is for the new-build Super Target in the north-east/KP area. A strong possibility has been the new Super Target will go behind Canadian Tire, that could potentinal open the current Target site for a new movie theater and the current movie theater for something like a Dominion junior anchor such as Forever 21.

[bomberjet]

I would consider KP in the same class as polo Park and St. Vital, with KP ranked an obvious number 3. Grant Park and Garden City are on a lesser tier, IMO. Portage Place is somewhere in between, but really should be up there with polo Park.

If KP expanded to something like St. Vital, it would be a huge boon for the mall. I know people tend to go to the other malls because KP doesn't have the same selection. If they want to remain relevant, an indoor expansion would seem like the way to go. The typical add a building to the corner of your parking lot doesn't do it for me. See Old Navy at St. Vital and Pier 1 at Polo.

It's like okay, kiddies we're done inside the mall. Now let's traverse the parking lot to Old Navy to get a $1 t-shirt...

[esquire]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I am not sure how theaters are classified however would the significant renovations to McGillivray not bumped them up to a class-A?

There's no formal classification system that I'm aware of... I just divided our theatres into three tiers based on size, amenities, age, etc.

In addition to the overlooked western and northern ends of town, it is a real bummer that there is no mainstream first-run cinema downtown. I suppose there can't be one given that Winnipeggers appear determined to avoid it at all costs. The Globe offers some of the best movies available in a pleasant facility that even provides free indoor parking (a godsend in the winter), yet on some weeknights you can attend a 7 pm screening of a great movie with no more than a dozen people occupying the hundreds of seats...

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by esquire

There's no formal classification system that I'm aware of... I just divided our theatres into three tiers based on size, amenities, age, etc.

In addition to the overlooked western and northern ends of town, it is a real bummer that there is no mainstream first-run cinema downtown. I suppose there can't be one given that Winnipeggers appear determined to avoid it at all costs. The Globe offers some of the best movies available in a pleasant facility that even provides free indoor parking (a godsend in the winter), yet on some weeknights you can attend a 7 pm screening of a great movie with no more than a dozen people occupying the hundreds of seats...

Advertising is the key. People tend to do what is popular or on TV (television, not the guy on SSP). Globe cinema just isn't popular. They should advertise on television that they exist and have indoor parking for free! More people would go for sure. Kind of the critical mass thing. If people see this place is busy, they're more likely to go.

[esquire]

^ I forgot to mention that there is the Towne Cinema, but it feels a bit isolated on the margins of downtown. I was thinking more of a heart-of-downtown, Portage Avenue cinema. You would think that one would fit right into the SHED.

[CoryB]

In terms of KP, when it opened it was please close to on par with St Vital and I would say both were ahead of Polo Park. Polo Park really didn't come into its boom until the second floor was added. St Vital has also had at least two expansions since it opened. It would definitely be interesting to hear what is presented at the open house.

As for movie theaters, based on ammenities, etc the VIP rooms alone I would say place McGillivray is the A+ class. For the Globe, the large room I thought was good but the small room at the end of the hall left me unimpressed as the slope felt too flat. I think the capacity question is a big one with lots of numbers most people do not have access to like projected attendance per capita and the average attendance at a theater on a given night. If Winnipeg were really being underserved I am sure Cineplex would more actively be working to build additional capacity.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

I would consider KP in the same class as polo Park and St. Vital, with KP ranked an obvious number 3. Grant Park and Garden City are on a lesser tier, IMO. Portage Place is somewhere in between, but really should be up there with polo Park.

If KP expanded to something like St. Vital, it would be a huge boon for the mall. I know people tend to go to the other malls because KP doesn't have the same selection. If they want to remain relevant, an indoor expansion would seem like the way to go. The typical add a building to the corner of your parking lot doesn't do it for me. See Old Navy at St. Vital and Pier 1 at Polo.

It's like okay, kiddies we're done inside the mall. Now let's traverse the parking lot to Old Navy to get a $1 t-shirt...

It would be a calculated gamble to try and compete with St Vital Centre. KP isn't exactly filling its current available space with the greatest tenants, would they just dilute the pool by having more leasable space? They need some kind of anchor east of the food court if they are going to expand, Silver City would fit the bill.

[DoubleFatBoy]

Originally Posted by CoryB

The Bay downtown seems to be to willing itself closed, the stock we have doesn't sell so let's bring in less stock that we can sell even less of since that will work better. Keep repeating until the doors are fully closed saying that customers didn't support them.

Sadly the Bay downtown will soon be history. I have heard rumours WallMart is considering taking over the historic Hudsons Bay Downtown building.

How do you like them apples?


*

[cheswick]

Originally Posted by DoubleFatBoy

Sadly the Bay downtown will soon be history. I have heard rumours WallMart is considering taking over the historic Hudsons Bay Downtown building.

How do you like them apples?


*

That would be a huge positive for downtown imo. Don't personally find that remotely likely.

[esquire]

Not a chance.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I forgot to mention that there is the Towne Cinema, but it feels a bit isolated on the margins of downtown. I was thinking more of a heart-of-downtown, Portage Avenue cinema. You would think that one would fit right into the SHED.

could be done the radison does have a movie theater in the basement that sits un used with its own entrince and then theres the globe

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

It would be a calculated gamble to try and compete with St Vital Centre. KP isn't exactly filling its current available space with the greatest tenants, would they just dilute the pool by having more leasable space? They need some kind of anchor east of the food court if they are going to expand, Silver City would fit the bill.

That's kind of what I mean. They need to, for lack of a better term, clean up the place. They recently renovated KP, sort of. But if they did a full on expansion/reno, similar to what was done at St. Vital, maybe they could attract those tenants that currently aren't there.

[Danny D Oh]

Originally Posted by DoubleFatBoy

Sadly the Bay downtown will soon be history. I have heard rumours WallMart is considering taking over the historic Hudsons Bay Downtown building.

How do you like them apples?


*

The only way Wal-Mart takes it over is if they are allowed to tear it down and turn Portage/Memorial/Colony into a giant parking lot.

[rypinion]

Originally Posted by Danny D Oh

The only way Wal-Mart takes it over is if they are allowed to tear it down and turn Portage/Memorial/Colony into a giant parking lot.

As unlikely as it is that we'd see a Walmart in that location, there is a giant parkade right next door.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

could be done the radison does have a movie theater in the basement that sits un used with its own entrince and then theres the globe

For some reason I really liked those theaters although the length from the screen to the back of the room seemed too far. Do you know for certain they are still there largely intact which the enterance just boarded over? Always seemed a little odd that CanadInns has not tried to convert them into meeting space.

[cllew]

Originally Posted by CoryB

For some reason I really liked those theaters although the length from the screen to the back of the room seemed too far. Do you know for certain they are still there largely intact which the enterance just boarded over? Always seemed a little odd that CanadInns has not tried to convert them into meeting space.

As far as I can remember when the theaters closed down there was no handicapped access to the lower level, only the escalators. It may not be physically possible or financially feasible to put an elevator in to service the basement level for meeting rooms.

It's like the Delta on St. Mary Ave. where they have never done anything (as far as I know) with the old nightclub in the lower level left over from the Holiday Inn days.

[wags_in_the_peg]

the main floor parkade base of the Target Polo Park is in and I would guestimate the 2nd level is 50% up, huge progress on that. And if anyone says they are not sure if this is a Target, give your head a shake. You tell how it's framed in the corners for their logo, etc.