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  #1341  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2016, 8:54 PM
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Does it really matter who wins? ....Except for Melnyk. A dozen of one or a dozen of the other will be one of the same at the end.
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  #1342  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2016, 9:12 PM
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Does it really matter who wins? ....Except for Melnyk. A dozen of one or a dozen of the other will be one of the same at the end.
Even setting aside the feasibility issue (which I think is a huge one), they're very different visions for the area. Devcore puts a lot of emphasis on daytime activity, with pavilions (with an emphasis on "field trips" type attractions) and seniors' housing and a school. Rendez-Vous has more of a nighttime focus with a lot more residents, the arena central to the development and a lot of bars and restaurants and recreation facilities taking on a more central role.
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  #1343  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2016, 10:27 PM
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Even setting aside the feasibility issue (which I think is a huge one), they're very different visions for the area. Devcore puts a lot of emphasis on daytime activity, with pavilions (with an emphasis on "field trips" type attractions) and seniors' housing and a school. Rendez-Vous has more of a nighttime focus with a lot more residents, the arena central to the development and a lot of bars and restaurants and recreation facilities taking on a more central role.
This is an excellent synopsis of the two bids. Both bids definitely have their merits but people need to ask themselves whether they'd rather help animate the downtown core in the evenings and on weekends or whether they'd like to help animate the downtown core during the day.

I don't think I'm being especially controversial when I say the #1 problem with downtown Ottawa is that it closes down after 6pm on weekdays and on weekends. This is really the issue we should be putting most of our efforts towards addressing. It's the single biggest drag on downtown desirability, on making it a destination and on giving Ottawa a real urban core and between the two bids, the one that best helps to address this problem is the Rendezvous bid.
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  #1344  
Old Posted Apr 26, 2016, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by passwordisnt123 View Post
This is an excellent synopsis of the two bids. Both bids definitely have their merits but people need to ask themselves whether they'd rather help animate the downtown core in the evenings and on weekends or whether they'd like to help animate the downtown core during the day.

I don't think I'm being especially controversial when I say the #1 problem with downtown Ottawa is that it closes down after 6pm on weekdays and on weekends. This is really the issue we should be putting most of our efforts towards addressing. It's the single biggest drag on downtown desirability, on making it a destination and on giving Ottawa a real urban core and between the two bids, the one that best helps to address this problem is the Rendezvous bid.
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  #1345  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by passwordisnt123 View Post
This is an excellent synopsis of the two bids. Both bids definitely have their merits but people need to ask themselves whether they'd rather help animate the downtown core in the evenings and on weekends or whether they'd like to help animate the downtown core during the day.

I don't think I'm being especially controversial when I say the #1 problem with downtown Ottawa is that it closes down after 6pm on weekdays and on weekends. This is really the issue we should be putting most of our efforts towards addressing. It's the single biggest drag on downtown desirability, on making it a destination and on giving Ottawa a real urban core and between the two bids, the one that best helps to address this problem is the Rendezvous bid.
Agreed! the Rendezvous bid makes more sense for Ottawa hands down. The NCC made it clear at the beginning of this process that it is a "Canada" thing, but both bids clearly focused on the Ottawa market. So for that reason, Devcore is out.
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  #1346  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 12:56 AM
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Does it really matter who wins? ....Except for Melnyk. A dozen of one or a dozen of the other will be one of the same at the end.
What if Melnyk named his proposal "RendezVIU" Would your opinion have been different?
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  #1347  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 1:31 AM
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  #1348  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 2:10 AM
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How many privately funded arenas get built with no sports team? Even in places like Hamilton, Winnipeg and Quebec where aspirational areans were built (with mostly government money) they had AHL or CHL teams to put in there.
Best example I can think of is the Sprint Center in Kansas City. As much as people talk about KC being on a list of potential NHL expansion teams, the city is on record saying that their Center is busy enough with concerts and other events that they don't need NHL or NBA to keep it with positive revenue and profits.
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  #1349  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 2:42 AM
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Decision day looms for LeBreton Flats

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: April 26, 2016 | Last Updated: April 26, 2016 6:02 PM EDT


One of Ottawa’s biggest secrets is about to be spilled.

The National Capital Commission will reveal Thursday which of two competing multibillion-dollar development proposals for LeBreton Flats has been ranked highest by an evaluation committee.

But that doesn’t necessarily mean the runner-up will be finished or cast aside as a loser.

While the NCC may opt to negotiate a development agreement with the highest ranked proponent, it could also negotiate with the runner-up if talks with the top-ranked team fail. It could even enter into “separate and distinct but contemporaneous” negotiations with both teams.

The two proponents — Eugene Melnyk’s RendezVous LeBreton and the Devcore Canderel DLS Group — are strictly prohibited from speaking publicly until Thursday’s announcement. But it will come as no surprise to either if the NCC chooses to keep both involved, if only to provide a Plan B in case things fall apart with the preferred choice.

For those reading the tea leaves, there is circumstantial evidence to support that scenario. The NCC has asked both proponents to be present when its board of trustees votes on the LeBreton recommendation Thursday, and to stick around afterwards to answer media questions.

Both teams are expected to show up in large numbers, though Montreal billionaires André Desmarais and Guy Laliberté — key members of the Devcore Canderel DLS Group — won’t be there.

Officials from both teams will also be briefed on next steps Friday by NCC staff, and both will only be allowed to speak publicly about their proposals until midnight on May 4, after which the now-familiar cone of silence will again descend until the announcement of a successful proponent early next year.

The two proposals to develop the 21.6-hectare LeBreton Flats site — vacant since the 1960s and by far the largest undeveloped parcel of land in Ottawa’s core — were unveiled on Jan. 27 at the Canadian War Museum at a two-day open house that attracted more than 3,000 people.

The NCC also received nearly 8,000 responses to an online questionnaire about the proposals. It will release a report summarizing that public feedback at Thursday’s meeting, along with the latest comments by the project’s fairness monitor, Louise Panneton.

While both proposals include plans for an arena, a new Ottawa central library and significant residential, commercial and retail development, they are starkly different in other ways.

Devcore Canderel’s LeBreton Reimagined plan proposes a dizzying array of attractions, from aquariums and planetariums to museums and skydiving pavilions, arrayed along a grande allée.

RendezVous LeBreton’s IllumiNation LeBreton plan is less flashy, focused on a new downtown arena that would house Melnyk’s Senators and major events, augmented by a restored “heritage aqueduct,” numerous parks and squares, and an Abilities Centre catering to disabled and able-bodied athletes.

The evaluation committee, which included architect A.J. Diamond, planner Mark Conway, NCC chief executive Mark Kristmanson and two senior NCC officials, spent about two months rating the competing proposals based on a dozen different criteria.

The single most important factor they considered was market rationale. Each team had to demonstrate the viability of its public anchor uses and commercial, retail and residential components, something the NCC described as “paramount” in its request for proposals for the LeBreton lands.

The design of the development plan itself and the delivery model, including the proposed ownership structure, financing and business terms, were also key elements of the evaluation.

On several of the most important evaluation criteria, the projects had to get at least 60 per cent of the available points or they would be considered not to have met the minimum qualification threshold, eliminating them from further consideration.

Adding to the intrigue Thursday, Ottawa Mayor Jim Watson and his Gatineau counterpart, Maxime Pedneaud-Jobin, will be attending their first NCC meeting as ex-officio members. Though they won’t be able to vote, they will be free to ask questions and express their opinions.

Once the NCC board has voted, negotiations will begin with one or both of the proponents. Those talks are expected to continue through the summer and fall. Assuming the negotiations succeed, the federal cabinet will need to sign off before the NCC can enter into a development agreement.

According to the current NCC timetable, the successful proponent will be announced in early 2017, followed by a municipal approval process later in the year. But NCC spokesman Nicholas Galletti wouldn’t say this week whether that timetable remains current.

dbutler@postmedia.com
twitter.com/ButlerDon

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...lebreton-flats
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  #1350  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 2:44 AM
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Illuminated or Reimagined: The duelling LeBreton plans at a glance

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: April 26, 2016 | Last Updated: April 26, 2016 6:34 PM EDT


ILLUMINATION LEBRETON

  • 18,000-seat “major event centre”
  • Sensplex rinks with attached 250,000-square-foot sports and recreation centre for disabled and able-bodied users
  • Restored heritage aqueduct lined with shops and cafés
  • An optional public library adjacent to the LeBreton development property
  • Five distinct neighbourhoods containing 4,400 residential units plus 2.8 million square feet of office and retail space
  • LeBreton Square, able to handle up to 28,000 people for outdoor events
  • An Innovation Promenade with interactive displays from the Canada Museum of Science and Technology

LEBRETON REIMAGINED
  • 18,500-seat “Theatre of Sports and Entertainment”
  • New central library
  • Ripley’s aquarium
  • Planetarium and Science and Innovation Pavilion
  • Canadensis Walk, a linear park stretching the full length of the site
  • Museums devoted to automobiles and multimedia
  • Canada Square and a bandshell with outdoor seating for 6,000
  • Skate park and indoor skydiving experience
  • Retail Follies, a mix of retail and museum spaces
  • 2,500 residential units and one million square feet of office space
  • YMCA and French-language elementary school

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...ns-at-a-glance
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  #1351  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 8:38 AM
sestafanos sestafanos is offline
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What if Melnyk named his proposal "RendezVIU" Would your opinion have been different?
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  #1352  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 3:38 PM
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Best example I can think of is the Sprint Center in Kansas City. As much as people talk about KC being on a list of potential NHL expansion teams, the city is on record saying that their Center is busy enough with concerts and other events that they don't need NHL or NBA to keep it with positive revenue and profits.
Ya but it's a middle America city with little potential for an NHL fan base. We MUST give them a franchise!!!
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  #1353  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 3:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Decision day looms for LeBreton Flats

Don Butler, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: April 26, 2016 | Last Updated: April 26, 2016 6:02 PM EDT


Both teams are expected to show up in large numbers, though Montreal billionaires André Desmarais and Guy Laliberté — key members of the Devcore Canderel DLS Group — won’t be there.

dbutler@postmedia.com
twitter.com/ButlerDon

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-...lebreton-flats
That says a lot. They weren't there for the initial consultations and still not showing up. Shows us how much importance they are putting into this; none.
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  #1354  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 3:57 PM
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That says a lot. They weren't there for the initial consultations and still not showing up. Shows us how much importance they are putting into this; none.
He might be on his island

(from the wikipedia)

Atoll of Nukutepipi
Guy Laliberté became in 2007 the owner of the atoll of Nukutepipi in the French Polynesia. Major works that are taking place there are expected to end in 2016 at the cost of approximately 20 millions CA$, according to Journal de Montréal (see below).

In May 2014, Guy Laliberté told the Journal de Montréal that he wanted to make of this place a shelter that could accommodate his family and friends in the event of a global catastrophe. “Because of all that's happening in the world, I said to myself: that could be the place where, in case of an epidemic or a total war, I could bring people I like and my family so that we'd be protected. It will be completely autonomous on the level operation: solar, environmental, ecologic
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  #1355  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 4:13 PM
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It could be taken that way, but it could also be taken several other ways:

1) They are electing (or have been requested by the local contingent) not to attend so as to minimize the appearance of "outsider" involvement. I think the general public is sensitive to this, not to mention that Eugene had also remarked about it some time ago.

2) They are electing (or have been requested by the local contingent) not to attend so as to minimize the appearance of "power and influence".

Just being the devil's advocate, but I tend to agree that not showing up is optically worse than showing up.
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  #1356  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 4:38 PM
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So is Eugene Melnyk planning to be there? The article doesn't seem to say.
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  #1357  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 4:40 PM
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What if Melnyk named his proposal "RendezVIU" Would your opinion have been different?
You are being too funny !



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  #1358  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 5:37 PM
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In May 2014, Guy Laliberté told the Journal de Montréal that he wanted to make of this place a shelter that could accommodate his family and friends in the event of a global catastrophe. “Because of all that's happening in the world, I said to myself: that could be the place where, in case of an epidemic or a total war, I could bring people I like and my family so that we'd be protected. It will be completely autonomous on the level operation: solar, environmental, ecologic[/I]
Huh, Laliberté sounds like a crank. I have a hard time trusting cranks with anything.
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  #1359  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 6:00 PM
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Best example I can think of is the Sprint Center in Kansas City. As much as people talk about KC being on a list of potential NHL expansion teams, the city is on record saying that their Center is busy enough with concerts and other events that they don't need NHL or NBA to keep it with positive revenue and profits.
There is simply way more "stuff" touring in the U.S. that can fill these types of arenas, than there is in Canada.

Most of us would be surprised at how many arenas the size of the CTC with no big-name sports tenant there are all over the U.S.

It's just not the same situation in Canada.

I mean, check this out:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOK_Center
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  #1360  
Old Posted Apr 27, 2016, 6:22 PM
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I can't stop laughing also.

That was a good one.
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