The Great Canadian Transit Thread - Page 676

Dengler Avenue · #**13501** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 4:05 AM**

Well at least the 7 enjoys 15-minute service throughout Sundays now. Ditto with the ION trains and buses. But yea, sadly, the housing along that stretch of King Street is effectively exclusively for Laurier U now. Without the 7D and 7E, I would think that no one going to UW wanna live on King.

urbandreamer · #**13502** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 4:13 AM**

I think something like the Cruise Origin would be a better transit investment in the many areas of KW that aren't that dense. I sometimes take the #4 route and it usually has 6 people max per bus between KPL and the Boardwalk.

Finally getting my license and a car has really opened my eyes to KW's urban planning mess. By car, KW is tolerable; by transit, KW is depressing. Toronto is the opposite.

swimmer_spe · #**13503** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 4:16 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I think something like the Cruise Origin would be a better transit investment in the many areas of KW that aren't that dense. I sometimes take the #4 route and it usually has 6 people max per bus between KPL and the Boardwalk.

Finally getting my license and a car has really opened my eyes to KW's urban planning mess. By car, KW is tolerable; by transit, KW is depressing.

So, public funded self driving taxis?

Dengler Avenue · #**13504** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 4:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I think something like the Cruise Origin would be a better transit investment in the many areas of KW that aren't that dense. I sometimes take the #4 route and it usually has 6 people max per bus between KPL and the Boardwalk.

Finally getting my license and a car has really opened my eyes to KW's urban planning mess. By car, KW is tolerable; by transit, KW is depressing. Toronto is the opposite.

I realized that 4 years ago. I’ve never looked back since.

Quote:

So, public funded self driving taxis?

We do have FlexBus in KW.

Anyway, I’ve that talks will resume tomorrow. Let’s see what comes out of it.

urbandreamer · #**13505** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 4:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, public funded self driving taxis?

Possibly. Or a combination of public and private. I see GM's Cruise as a move back into buses. It's the new fishbowl. I hope it's a success and goverment catches up to the technology.

swimmer_spe · #**13506** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 4:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Possibly. Or a combination of public and private. I see GM's Cruise as a move back into buses. It's the new fishbowl. I hope it's a success and goverment catches up to the technology.

GM's reputation is dead. Why not look at all the other manufacturers?

urbandreamer · #**13507** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 4:28 AM**

There's Zoox. Waymo. Competition is good. Think of the Cruise Origin as the Blackberry 5810: by 2038 I expect AV will be the norm in public transport. Meanwhile the Ion LRT will be obsolete.

swimmer_spe · #**13508** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 4:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

There's Zoox. Waymo. Competition is good. Think of the Cruise Origin as the Blackberry 5810: by 2038 I expect AV will be the norm in public transport. Meanwhile the Ion LRT will be obsolete.

In the 1950s, didn't they feel the flying car was the future?

urbandreamer · #**13509** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 4:39 AM**

The Cruise Origin is going into production: https://www.autoblog.com/2020/01/27/gm-ev-strategy-cruise-origin-hamtramck/

swimmer_spe · #**13510** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 3:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

The Cruise Origin is going into production: https://www.autoblog.com/2020/01/27/gm-ev-strategy-cruise-origin-hamtramck/

Either you work for GM or are so blind to what is already out there. Right now, Teslas are cruising around. A dealer could flip a switch and they all are now self driving. GM is far behind the leaders of the Self Driving car.

MalcolmTucker · #**13511** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 4:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

There's Zoox. Waymo. Competition is good. Think of the Cruise Origin as the Blackberry 5810: by 2038 I expect AV will be the norm in public transport. Meanwhile the Ion LRT will be obsolete.

Ion, I don't know. Can deploy a greater number of self driving light rail vehicles along the corridor, giving such high frequency of service that it will be an even larger magnet for development-jobs and residential.

milomilo · #**13512** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 4:09 PM**

Yeah, if you can make a self driving car (and let's revisit in 10-20 years to see how realistic that is), then you can make a self driving LRT. And the advantages of public transit, and segregated ROWs, still exist even if automated vehicles also exist.

swimmer_spe · #**13513** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 5:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo

Yeah, if you can make a self driving car (and let's revisit in 10-20 years to see how realistic that is), then you can make a self driving LRT. And the advantages of public transit, and segregated ROWs, still exist even if automated vehicles also exist.

Look up the Skytrain in Vancouver......

MalcolmTucker · #**13514** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 6:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Look up the Skytrain in Vancouver......

A little different trying to implement on a non-exclusive ROW.

urbandreamer · #**13515** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 6:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Either you work for GM or are so blind to what is already out there. Right now, Teslas are cruising around. A dealer could flip a switch and they all are now self driving. GM is far behind the leaders of the Self Driving car.

Nonsense. Tesla's have advanced cruise control aka level 2. They'll need lidar sensors, updated computers and 5G connectivity ... not gonna happen. GM has level 3 and is testing level 4 (Cruise Origin.)

I don't work for GM but did buy TSLA stock under $200.

midriser · #**13516** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 8:55 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

It's slower because you have to walk to the station (6 minutes), wait 9 minutes between trains then cut back. It's poorly planned because it misses the densest parts of Waterloo and Kitchener: Northdale/King/Columbia area and downtown King Street. Sure it's fine if you live by Allen Station mini condo corridor (me thankfully

) but still catching the GO train to Toronto sucks because you have to walk along the suburban throughway that is Victoria Street between King and Ahrens. The last time I attempted to go to Fairview Park mall a cyclist crashed into a train causing a delay--ended up taking a shuttle bus. The 7 bus now runs at 15 minute frequency while previously it ran every 8 minutes. Even so the bus is much busier than the train because it stops and goes where the people live!

During the day on weekdays the average wait is 5 minutes (10-minute frequency). If/when the originally planned peak frequency of 8 minutes is achieved, then that would drop to 4. Evenings and weekends is an average wait of 7.5 minutes owing to the 15-minute frequency. Definitely not great for a higher order line that’s supposed to be the backbone of the system.

As for missing dense areas of the region, it does miss the Northdale/King/Columbia area which is unfortunate. The choice was between serving the UW campus directly via the rail corridor, or serving the Laurier campus directly by running the line on-street up King. The rail corridor alignment does miss the (student) residential density in Northdale, but it also allows for significantly higher train speeds (70 km/h once ATP is in working order), much less risk of delay due to collisions with other road traffic, and direct service to the largest post-secondary institution in the Region which is a very important trip generator.

Regarding downtown King Street, I don’t see how the line misses it. The alignment is not on King itself (an unfortunate concession for the sake of drivers), but it’s only about 120 metres away on either side. That’s two platform lengths’ worth of walking, not exactly huge. The split direction stations do add confusion and potentially drive away ridership though. But despite all that, much of the recently completed/under construction/proposed downtown developments are not on King but are on Charles and Duke directly on the LRT line (Charlie West, DTK, Young Condos, etc.). So the alignment is really not missing out on downtown density at all.

I agree that the walk to the GO station along Victoria is unpleasant, but that’s a temporary situation until the new transit hub opens directly beside the LRT station.

Finally, the 7 bus isn’t busier than the LRT. As per the preliminary figures the Region realised back in October, there was a total of 474,000 boardings on route 7 between July and September 2019. In comparison, there was 1,281,000 boardings on the LRT in the same time frame. Source: page 83 of the October 22 2019 Planning and Works meeting agenda (https://calendar.regionofwaterloo.ca/Cou...tee/22073bcb-bb89-4229-9f50-aae800e2ff55)

swimmer_spe · #**13517** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 10:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

A little different trying to implement on a non-exclusive ROW.

True, but they can work with that too. It would be easier than having self driving cars

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Nonsense. Tesla's have advanced cruise control aka level 2. They'll need lidar sensors, updated computers and 5G connectivity ... not gonna happen. GM has level 3 and is testing level 4 (Cruise Origin.)

I don't work for GM but did buy TSLA stock under $200.

There are certain companies that are viewed by the public as not worth dealing with anymore GM, with it's closure of the plant in Oshawa would be one of them.

I'll bet that the things you list are bolt on and plug and play equipment.

milomilo · #**13518** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 10:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Look up the Skytrain in Vancouver......

Quote:

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

A little different trying to implement on a non-exclusive ROW.

Thank you.

Realistically, if you can make a car autonomous, you can make an at grade LRT autonomous far more easily. But in the real world, getting rid of the drivers will never happen, they'll scream "safety" even though human drivers will be objectively more incompetent, and they will remain either fully driving the trains, or just opening the doors. And if we can't make trains driverless, I am doubtful we will be seeing driverless cars any time soon (other than a few test runs in lab conditions in Phoenix).

Franco401 · #**13519** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 10:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by milomilo

Thank you.

Realistically, if you can make a car autonomous, you can make an at grade LRT autonomous far more easily. But in the real world, getting rid of the drivers will never happen, they'll scream "safety" even though human drivers will be objectively more incompetent, and they will remain either fully driving the trains, or just opening the doors. And if we can't make trains driverless, I am doubtful we will be seeing driverless cars any time soon (other than a few test runs in lab conditions in Phoenix).

I disagree about trains. Autonomous systems have been in place safely for a long time and are getting more common. The REM is going to be autonomous, for example.

Cars are obviously trickier, but they're irrelevant to the big picture of urban transportation if we want to sustainably and realistically handle demand going forward.

milomilo · #**13520** Posted **Jan 28, 2020, 11:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco401

I disagree about trains. Autonomous systems have been in place safely for a long time and are getting more common. The REM is going to be autonomous, for example.

Cars are obviously trickier, but they're irrelevant to the big picture of urban transportation if we want to sustainably and realistically handle demand going forward.

Those are rail systems with segregated ROWs, rather than LRTs, but yes you are correct. The problem is they need to built with no drivers in the first place. If you have drivers, then automate later it's virtually impossible to get rid of that expensive, useless sack of flesh from the driver's seat.