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  #1321  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2023, 7:44 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Where are pedestrians supposed to go at this barricade?
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  #1322  
Old Posted Aug 9, 2023, 8:05 PM
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Where are pedestrians supposed to go at this barricade?
They should have crossed back at Rue Montcalm to the other side of the Boulevard.
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  #1323  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2023, 1:17 PM
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Chief William Commanda Bridge's Gatineau's connection criticized
"I thought, 'They must be going to improve it. It can't be left like this. It's just too weird.' Then it was open. Bad things are going to happen."

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 10, 2023 • Last updated 5 hours ago • 3 minute read




Cyclists and pedestrians are praising the new Chief William Commanda Bridge, but not its “cockamamie” T-intersection with the Gatineau multi-use pathway.

The former railway bridge linking Ottawa and Gatineau across Lemieux Island opened Friday, just in time for the long weekend in Ontario, and it was immediately crowded with cyclists, walkers and runners.

“It’s a game-changer,” said Doug van den Ham, a bike commuter who’s crossed the bridge multiple times in the days since it opened.

“It’s wonderful. It’s got great views of the city. It’s way safer than either Portage, Chaudière or Champlain bridges.”

But the abrupt right-angle intersection with the National Capital Commission multi-use path on the Gatineau side has caught many users by surprise. Poor sightlines, steep uphill grades from both directions of the MUP and a lack of warning and direction signs make the intersection hazardous.

“Once people are more familiar with the intersection, I suspect it will work OK, but caution is needed,” van den Ham said. “It’s a natural spot where you want to have a bigger space for people to stop, maybe a few benches.”

The bridge hadn’t even opened when Gatineau resident Suzanne Ladouceur was caught in the congestion. Ladouceur, 66 and in her own words “no gazelle,” was eastbound on the Gatineau path when she had to stop on the steep uphill approach to the bridge.

“I didn’t know where the entrance was, and there are no signs at all,” Ladouceur said. “I had to come to a complete stop because someone stopped in front of me — I guess to gawk at the bridge. At first I thought, ‘Oh, this is neat,’ but I didn’t have my feet planted firmly and I started to roll backward.”

Ladouceur fell off her bike, banging her head on the pavement.

“As I went down I thought, ‘Gee, I’m glad I have my helmet on,’ she said. “Then, when I stood up, I thought, ‘What kind of a stupid intersection is this?’ There’s nothing warning you. It’s boom! You’re there! It’s just a cockamamie thing.”

Aside from some road rash and bruised pride, Ladouceur was unhurt. The Chief William Commanda Bridge officially opened the next day.

“I thought, ‘They must be going to improve it. It can’t be left like this. It’s just too weird.’ Then it was open,” she said. “Bad things are going to happen.”

The former Prince of Wales Bridge was modified for bikes and pedestrians with an $8-million federal grant from Infrastructure Canada and $12 million from the City of Ottawa. The cycling and pedestrian conversion isn’t permanent since the bridge might one day be used for rail service again.

The connection to the National Capital Commission MUP on the Gatineau side is the responsibility of the City of Gatineau.

“Obviously something has to be done to improve the safety of it,” said Hull-Aylmer MP Greg Fergus, who walked across the bridge for the first time with his wife one evening this week.

“Whenever you build something, there’s what exists on paper and what users discover. And often the people who make the decisions are not the users.”

Fergus said he’d speak to his municipal counterparts to see what could be done, if anything, to make the intersection better.

The City of Gatineau has big plans for the area, including a north-south STO rapid bus stop and an east-west tramway to downtown, said Steve Moran, councillor for the Hull-Wright district.

“The function of that area is going to change,” Moran said.

Moran said the Chief William Commanda Bridge was “an amazing bit of infrastructure” that had been embraced by Gatineau residents working at Tunney’s Pasture, as well as students at the nearby Université du Québec en Outaouais.

“It’s a T-intersection, and that’s never ideal. We try to avoid that,” Moran said. “There’s not a lot of space to work with there. It’s safe now, but we’ll have to sit down and look at what the inconveniences are.”

The city has no immediate plans to rework the intersection, but it is working with the NCC to improve signage, Moran said.

That was not what Ladouceur wanted to hear.

“(The City of Gatineau) have been so good with putting in bicycle trails, I’m surprised they dropped the ball on this,” she said. “Surprised and disappointed.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-bridges-gatineaus-connection-criticized
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  #1324  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2023, 1:25 PM
OTownandDown OTownandDown is offline
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The whole 'up in arms' karens are so dumb.

SO you have a bunch of lookly-loos who are traipsing across the bridge in big groups of Cyclists. You get to the other side, have no destination in mind, panic, and come to a stop, causing a traffic jam. Boo hoo.

Three weeks from now when people are athletically commuting, you think they'll stop and wonder which direction they should head in? Left or right, Karen, LEFT OR RIGHT.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketphish View Post
Chief William Commanda Bridge's Gatineau's connection criticized
"I thought, 'They must be going to improve it. It can't be left like this. It's just too weird.' Then it was open. Bad things are going to happen."

Blair Crawford, Ottawa Citizen
Published Aug 10, 2023 • Last updated 5 hours ago • 3 minute read




Cyclists and pedestrians are praising the new Chief William Commanda Bridge, but not its “cockamamie” T-intersection with the Gatineau multi-use pathway.

The former railway bridge linking Ottawa and Gatineau across Lemieux Island opened Friday, just in time for the long weekend in Ontario, and it was immediately crowded with cyclists, walkers and runners.

“It’s a game-changer,” said Doug van den Ham, a bike commuter who’s crossed the bridge multiple times in the days since it opened.

“It’s wonderful. It’s got great views of the city. It’s way safer than either Portage, Chaudière or Champlain bridges.”

But the abrupt right-angle intersection with the National Capital Commission multi-use path on the Gatineau side has caught many users by surprise. Poor sightlines, steep uphill grades from both directions of the MUP and a lack of warning and direction signs make the intersection hazardous.

“Once people are more familiar with the intersection, I suspect it will work OK, but caution is needed,” van den Ham said. “It’s a natural spot where you want to have a bigger space for people to stop, maybe a few benches.”

The bridge hadn’t even opened when Gatineau resident Suzanne Ladouceur was caught in the congestion. Ladouceur, 66 and in her own words “no gazelle,” was eastbound on the Gatineau path when she had to stop on the steep uphill approach to the bridge.

“I didn’t know where the entrance was, and there are no signs at all,” Ladouceur said. “I had to come to a complete stop because someone stopped in front of me — I guess to gawk at the bridge. At first I thought, ‘Oh, this is neat,’ but I didn’t have my feet planted firmly and I started to roll backward.”

Ladouceur fell off her bike, banging her head on the pavement.

“As I went down I thought, ‘Gee, I’m glad I have my helmet on,’ she said. “Then, when I stood up, I thought, ‘What kind of a stupid intersection is this?’ There’s nothing warning you. It’s boom! You’re there! It’s just a cockamamie thing.”

Aside from some road rash and bruised pride, Ladouceur was unhurt. The Chief William Commanda Bridge officially opened the next day.

“I thought, ‘They must be going to improve it. It can’t be left like this. It’s just too weird.’ Then it was open,” she said. “Bad things are going to happen.”

The former Prince of Wales Bridge was modified for bikes and pedestrians with an $8-million federal grant from Infrastructure Canada and $12 million from the City of Ottawa. The cycling and pedestrian conversion isn’t permanent since the bridge might one day be used for rail service again.

The connection to the National Capital Commission MUP on the Gatineau side is the responsibility of the City of Gatineau.

“Obviously something has to be done to improve the safety of it,” said Hull-Aylmer MP Greg Fergus, who walked across the bridge for the first time with his wife one evening this week.

“Whenever you build something, there’s what exists on paper and what users discover. And often the people who make the decisions are not the users.”

Fergus said he’d speak to his municipal counterparts to see what could be done, if anything, to make the intersection better.

The City of Gatineau has big plans for the area, including a north-south STO rapid bus stop and an east-west tramway to downtown, said Steve Moran, councillor for the Hull-Wright district.

“The function of that area is going to change,” Moran said.

Moran said the Chief William Commanda Bridge was “an amazing bit of infrastructure” that had been embraced by Gatineau residents working at Tunney’s Pasture, as well as students at the nearby Université du Québec en Outaouais.

“It’s a T-intersection, and that’s never ideal. We try to avoid that,” Moran said. “There’s not a lot of space to work with there. It’s safe now, but we’ll have to sit down and look at what the inconveniences are.”

The city has no immediate plans to rework the intersection, but it is working with the NCC to improve signage, Moran said.

That was not what Ladouceur wanted to hear.

“(The City of Gatineau) have been so good with putting in bicycle trails, I’m surprised they dropped the ball on this,” she said. “Surprised and disappointed.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-new...-bridges-gatineaus-connection-criticized
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  #1325  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2023, 2:30 PM
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Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
The whole 'up in arms' karens are so dumb.

SO you have a bunch of lookly-loos who are traipsing across the bridge in big groups of Cyclists. You get to the other side, have no destination in mind, panic, and come to a stop, causing a traffic jam. Boo hoo.

Three weeks from now when people are athletically commuting, you think they'll stop and wonder which direction they should head in? Left or right, Karen, LEFT OR RIGHT.
It all comes down to the classic joke:
Quote:
Why did the chicken cross the Chief William Commanda Bridge?
I do agree that things will get better once the novelty wears off, but I suspect that, until they do something to fix it, it will always be a bit of a problem on nice weekend days. For some, their destination will be the other side, and the plan will be to just turn around and come back. In that case, it is only natural to want to stop before making the return journey, and there is no place to do that.
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  #1326  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2023, 3:06 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is online now
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Obviously the only solution that would work here is a wide area for people to hang out, with benches, picnic tables, some information boards about the bridge and the river, water fountains, etc.

But something's telling me they'll settle for a bunch of signs making it even more confusing and call it a day.
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  #1327  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2023, 3:39 PM
Jay31 Jay31 is offline
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I used to bike the path on the Gatineau side every day going to/from work and would often stop at the top of the hill where the path intersects with the bridge (what used to be the train tracks). It was cool to look out over the bridge at all of the kids who would be playing on it at the time...

I suspect the only difference today is that there's a lot more traffic at the intersection with the bridge legally open. I don't think there's a lot you can do in that area without a lot of bulldozing though, as the land is sculpted for the former track bed.

It is probably worth doing more there in the long term though - clearing more area, creating a larger landing and perhaps having space for some benches. I wonder if the track beyond the path could be made into a small park. I know people say... it'll get better once the novelty wears off... and I remember people saying that the Corkstown bridge was also only for people to look at the view, but that never stopped. I think that may be the case here as well - the bridge is an attraction and will attract people who are there just to check it out and the views that it provides...who will take up space and probably annoy the commuter bikes. Nothing wrong with that though.
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  #1328  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2023, 7:23 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is online now
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Originally Posted by zzptichka View Post
Obviously the only solution that would work here is a wide area for people to hang out, with benches, picnic tables, some information boards about the bridge and the river, water fountains, etc.

But something's telling me they'll settle for a bunch of signs making it even more confusing and call it a day.
Is it that difficult to install, and to understand, stop signs at the intersection, and maybe advance "prepare to stop" signs a few metres back of it?

A very large part of the problem I've seen so far on the Quebec side is that bikers on the Sentier des Voyageurs bike like crazy humans. Maybe... don't do that any more?
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  #1329  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2023, 7:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Is it that difficult to install, and to understand, stop signs at the intersection, and maybe advance "prepare to stop" signs a few metres back of it?

A very large part of the problem I've seen so far on the Quebec side is that bikers on the Sentier des Voyageurs bike like crazy humans. Maybe... don't do that any more?
If the Hells Angels (or other bike gang) are riding on the Sentier des Voyageurs, maybe they should enforce the no motorbikes on the pathway rule.
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  #1330  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2023, 8:30 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is online now
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If the Hells Angels (or other bike gang) are riding on the Sentier des Voyageurs, maybe they should enforce the no motorbikes on the pathway rule.
Bikylists. Bikesexuals. However they want to identify.
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  #1331  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2023, 8:58 PM
OTownandDown OTownandDown is offline
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There are intersections within a couple hundred metres of this intersection that are just as bad in terms of blindness and t-junctions and no signage. Not to mention downhills with sharp blind corners that actively promote crashing (and death) within 100m of this intersection. All could be signed till the cows come home but people don't pay attention. The path would need to be re-graded and re-routed to allow for safe, pillow-lined, passage by idiots. (No offence to the man who died. I'm sure it was an honest, sleep-deprived, horror-filled mistake at the time.)

Most of the world treats scenic bike paths as a secondary walking path that happens to have bikes on it. Signing your way out of a problem isn't going to fix the cyclists who don't stop anyways. I'm never going to stop on the crest of this hill, sorry, not sorry. Its a frigging hill. I'm going to ring my bell and travel through, like a normal person. I miss the days 10 years ago when people didn't care about this kind of activity, and I COULD strap on my spandex and go 30km/hr through this area, pretending I'm Schumacher. I've passed countless non-bikesexuals (bikeasexuals?) struggling up this very crest.

Clearly the problem is not the new bridge, but the original design of the path. Pointing out the design flaws at this stage, for this one small spot, is a 'dog whistle' or 'scapegoat' or 'false narrative' or some term I can't currently describe. But it's not really justified to blame the designers, considering the circumstance, is what I'm saying.
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  #1332  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2023, 9:19 PM
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Bikylists. Bikesexuals. However they want to identify.
Cyclists is the generally accepted term.
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  #1333  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2023, 9:25 PM
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Steve Moran, councillor for the Hull-Wright district.


Moran said the Chief William Commanda Bridge was “an amazing bit of infrastructure” that had been embraced by Gatineau residents working at Tunney’s Pasture, as well as students at the nearby Université du Québec en Outaouais.


Thats great Steve...how about putting some tax payer money towards it since its all a free ride so far.
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  #1334  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2023, 9:54 PM
zzptichka zzptichka is online now
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Originally Posted by Uhuniau View Post
Is it that difficult to install, and to understand, stop signs at the intersection, and maybe advance "prepare to stop" signs a few metres back of it?

A very large part of the problem I've seen so far on the Quebec side is that bikers on the Sentier des Voyageurs bike like crazy humans. Maybe... don't do that any more?
It's funny but the Karen from the article literally complained that she had to stop while biking uphill. How are stop signs supposed to fix that I'm not sure.

The supposed problem is not with people hitting other people. The approach is uphill from both sides and it's basically walking speeds. The problem is people arriving at the intersection from the bridge and standing there contemplating where to go next. Pretty well summed up in this photo:

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  #1335  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2023, 1:16 PM
OTownandDown OTownandDown is offline
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I might point out that as usual, the City of Ottawa has signed the sh*t out of everything (I've been to the municipal sign shop, they LOVE making signs).

This image has at least 5 signs, and that's just the ones I can see, and not counting the faded pavement sign.

Plus there's signs on every 2nd bridge girder.

Plus there's another 10 or so signs at the Ottawa side of the bridge.

As usual at most Ottawa intersections, one can't read or understand the majority of these signs without stopping and reading...so... problem solved!
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  #1336  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2023, 5:00 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is online now
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Where are pedestrians supposed to go at this barricade?
Pedestrians?

On a cycling bridge?
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  #1337  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2023, 5:03 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is online now
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Clearly the problem is not the new bridge, but the original design of the path.
And that design is heavily constrained by the fact that the intersection is atop a railway berm, which makes it even more important for people to take it upon themselves to modify their behaviour.
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  #1338  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2023, 5:05 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is online now
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I really don't understand how it is so hard for other human beings to not be dicks, to be aware of their surroundings, and to stay out of one another's way. Maybe that's just me.
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  #1339  
Old Posted Aug 11, 2023, 9:08 PM
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I really don't understand how it is so hard for other human beings to not be dicks, to be aware of their surroundings, and to stay out of one another's way. Maybe that's just me.
Spoken like someone who has never used an escalator in this town.
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  #1340  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2023, 5:05 PM
Uhuniau Uhuniau is online now
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Spoken like someone who has never used an escalator in this town.
Au contraire; some of the biggest and bestest swears I have ever sworn have been upon arriving at the top level of a Rideau Centre or St. Laurent mall escalator.
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